Flash Memory Cards

[Dirk]

so right Colin!

I would buy fast memory and better 4 x 4 gb than one of 16 gb
dual camera's offcourse , one with a multizoom say a 28-200 for instance and one with a decent prime (for portraits 85mm 1.8 or 1,4) one tip too.. take the camera with a lens to the store and test the card if it works and is being recognized by the body

i bought a sony 4gb card for my nikon D70 thought it would work but no, lucky for me the canon eos 300D (the only other one that has CF) did like the card !

[starsage56]

thanks for the input colin. i understand and had the same thoughts as what you brought up. i will be there as a paid photographer but they are aware that ive never done a wedding and are ok with this. they have said to me that they just want someone dedicated to pictures.

i think i might take your advice on the cards. its too much hassle to try and see if i can get the problems to reoccur on some of them. ill just snag a few more.

[Colin Southern]

thanks for the input colin. i understand and had the same thoughts as what you brought up. i will be there as a paid photographer but they are aware that ive never done a wedding and are ok with this. they have said to me that they just want someone dedicated to pictures.

i think i might take your advice on the cards. its too much hassle to try and see if i can get the problems to reoccur on some of them. ill just snag a few more.

No worries

All I'd like to say in closing though is "be careful" ... I've read many a wedding forum where things have started out very relaxed and casual, but ended up in bitter disputes. William W (as a veteran of some 1500+ weddings) might like to chip in some thoughts -- I'll forward a link to Bill.

I guess I'm just trying to help people avoid the differences in expectations; on one hand the bride and groom will probably have no idea as to what's involved in wedding photography (after all, probably every wedding photo that they've seen has been (a) shot by a professional wedding photographer and (b) "passed muster" (ie one of the ones that made it past the delete key), whereas on the flip side, first time wedding shooters may suddenly discover just how many things you have to think of all at once, and now things can go so badly wrong.

If youd like a few pointers (and a good laugh at times too), point your browser to Al Jacobs online Wedding Photographer book

[Bill44]

I've read the article that Colin is sending you the link for, well worth the read. Humorous at times, but the messages and advice are very true. Especially "Beware the Bride's Mother".

[Colin Southern]

I've read the article that Colin is sending you the link for, well worth the read. Humorous at times, but the messages and advice are very true. Especially "Beware the Bride's Mother".

I like the suggested shot list, based on real-life experiences ...

- Groomsmen chaining car to fire hydrant

- Axel & differential being ripped off car and fire hydrant being ripped out

- Look on Groomsmens faces when they're told it's the wrong car!

- Look on ministers face ("who the h*ll did that to my car")

- Fire brigade responding!

...

[William W]

In my opinion, if a photographer is shooting a wedding as a paid professional then I feel that they have a professional obligation to follow "best practice" and again, in my opinion, since weddings are "failure is not an option" type events, this means using dual media cameras, with reliable media.

This is a topic which is often hotly and emotively debated amongst some Wedding Professionals.

I do not use dual media digital cameras, I offer this not as a defence of my position, but after I personally considered best what “Best Practice” actually means, practically and taking into account the real risks.

I agree with Best Practice.

I carry and use two DSLRs. I carry two extra lenses one in each coat Pocket. I carry two Flash units mounted. I have in the bag a spare DSLR. Also a spare dedicated Flash. Also a 135 Film SLR loaded with 400ISO colour and a snub 45mmF/2 lens. My two working cameras each have an Extreme III 8Mb Sandisc, as does my Standby Camera.

The memory cards are very rarely removed during the gig.

I shoot the Formals on 645. I have two 645 bodies and a cache of 5 lenses for them and TWO standard leaf shutter lenses, lest one fail – and two portable Metz Flash Heads dedicated to that kit – but obviously they can be used with any camera.

Should my whole DSLR kit fail, I carry enough 120 film to shoot the whole gig on 645 and with the 135 format extra spare camera with a 45mm lens for the candids – it would be tight, but doable.

I believe the possibility of a DSLR camera failure is way more than a single card failure.

I have used DSLR for about the last eight years or so and I have had two DSLRs fail.

Those failures were within minutes of each other and at the one gig. It was a School Speech day presentation. I took about eight seconds to move to the bag and load the 85mm lens on the standby DSLR – I had to give the “eye” to the MC to hold the presentation of the next Certificate for only a short moment.

I was lucky – if that double camera failure had happened at a Wedding Processional eight seconds translates to 16ft of walking space – I could have missed the second Bridesmaid – or worse – I could have missed the long shot of the Bride and her Dad.

Since my double camera failure, I have rethought what “Best Practice” means for the coverage of the Processional. If I am working alone, it means my carrying three Digital Cameras all loaded all with a flash and ready to fire.

I believe the possibility of a Flash Failure is more than the possibility of a single card failure.

I also believe card failures & problems are exacerbated by using inferior quality cards and pulling them in and out under the pressure of time.

Not everyone agrees with this point of view, but many, many Professional W&P working at the upper end of the market use cameras that do not have dual cards but choose their make and model of camera for Best Practice and Best Results, and I am sure they all employ Best Practice in the execution of their duties.

However other W&P Photographers do use Dual Card cameras. Under scrutiny of debate, I have found that many (most / all) use Dual Card Cameras as a result of Dual Cards being there, rather than sourcing a Dual Card camera as a “must have”. There is a difference.

Having stated that, one cannot argue against the fact that Dual Cards are “safer”: and it is not my intention to debate that theory, but rather bring the theory of Best Practice into the Practicality of Best Service.

Dual card cameras are becoming more prevalent; and in the course of time, as each of us renews their kit and refurbishes it in accordance with that Code of Best Practice I have no doubt that Dual Card Cameras will be the norm for most higher end W&P Professionals, and so on later for mostly all.

For full disclosure the digital cameras I use are Canon: 400D, 20D, 30D, 5D and two P5IS. My Wedding DSLR kit is 20D, 30D, 5D, and I usually carry one P5IS too, but I didn't mention that as it really is not part of the "Kit".

Part of my protocol / rationale of Best Service is my having a Dual Format digital kit, which allows me to move quickly and travel lightly (two cameras four lenses). There are many factors to Wedding Photography - I respect the value of Dual Cards, but I believe I am within Best Practice and Best Service without such a Camera, today.

Next month, next year is a different framework, and, as part of Best Practice is the understanding the fluid nature of Technology, but equally weighing Technological Developments with Realistic Advantages, Fiscal Responsibility and Practical Advantages.

I consider I charge and work at the higher end of the W&P market.

WW

[William W]

i will be there as a paid photographer but they are aware that ive never done a wedding and are ok with this. they have said to me that they just want someone dedicated to pictures. i think i might take your advice on the cards. its too much hassle to try and see if i can get the problems to reoccur on some of them. ill just snag a few more.

Concerning the cards:
It is my advice to buy the best quality.

As I have mentioned changing cards is dangerous, and IMO more dangerous than the problem of “all the eggs in the one basket theory”.

Changing cards, them falling, getting wet, trodden on, bitten by a child, or lost, presents more danger than not – so larger cards are better.

Even more important is a STRUCTURED PROTOCOL for a card change and a STRUCTURED PROTOCOL for CARD STORAGE.

But there will be a limit to the size of the card your camera can use – you should know that.

i will be there as a paid photographer

On the Wedding:
I work in Australia, but, I have several colleagues who work in the USA. I speak as their agent and as result of knowing the intricacies of actual cases:

. Have a contract – a written contract – not an handshake agreement.
. Clearly state what is expected of you and for what you are responsible.
. Know your legal obligations regarding the provision of service and product.

The worst litigation ever cited to me followed the thoughts of the Photographer being: “it won’t happen to me, they are my family.”

WW

[William W]

I guess I'm just trying to help people avoid the differences in expectations; on one hand the bride and groom will probably have no idea as to what's involved in wedding photography (after all, probably every wedding photo that they've seen has been (a) shot by a professional wedding photographer and (b) "passed muster" (i.e. one of the ones that made it past the delete key), whereas on the flip side, first time wedding shooters may suddenly discover just how many things you have to think of all at once, and now things can go so badly wrong.

Yes.

That is it in a nutshell.

The Bride and Groom are ignorant as to what it takes and expect that a friend who loves Photography can produce what they have in their mind's eye – whatever that is – and they are full of enthusiasm.

The Novice Photographer is usually ignorant of two main features: the Pressure of Time and the Protocol of Shots, and is also full of enthusiasm.

After the event, both parties often in a different perspective.

There is no reason the situation described above cannot have an happy outcome: BUT it is imperative that both parties understand what may and may not be provided and are completely happy going ahead within those parameters.

I add, that when money exchanges hands, the relationship has another dimension.

And importantly it should be noted that in some legal and economic frameworks the litigious dimension can be more severe than in other environments.

WW

PS:
Hello Colin,

thank you for your note.

I trust I have provided information which will be useful to those reading and especially those on this thread.

[Colin Southern]

Hello Colin,

thank you for your note.

I trust I have provided information which will be useful to those reading and especially those on this thread.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the comprehensive answers (as always!).

Out of interest Bill, have you ever shot with 1 Series cameras? (especially 1D3 / 1Ds3)?

[William W]

Out of interest Bill, have you ever shot with 1 Series cameras? (especially 1D3 / 1Ds3)?

Do: EOS 1, EOS 1n and EOS1v count in the reckoning?

***

Re the digital: no neither of the two mentioned, though some preceding models: yes - mostly the 1Ds and 1DsMkII (for Weddings).

As I think you know I have access to some press gear, and they are running 1DmkII presently - which are nice for sport and the like, IMO, and I dabble a bit as you know, but even with sport, I still shoot "one shot", mainly.

Also, I am still aligned with my old studio - so I can get spare 30D and / or 5D within 30 minutes drive from anywhere I would be working, if necessary – so owning more myself is not a good idea.

Also, as well as my 645 kit, I still have a fully functioning and fully maintained 135 SLR kit (4 bodies and full compliment of lenses)

For me personally, the 1DMkIII does not interest me because it is APS-H and that does not suit my specific Dual Format criterion.

Remember for the formal work (those most likely to enlarge to wall hanging size), I am still using 645 - so megapixels are not my main concern. Frame Rate (gee that's an old term) is not an issue as I am a "one shot": kinda guy.

A zillion A/F points is nice but not a requirement.

Weather sealing is nice, but again not a requirement.

I have my cameras regularly serviced, and two new shutter mechanisms thus far, . . etc.

5D copes with low light / available light more than adequately.

It is a business, and Capital Outlay requires a full return over the two years depreciation and I can buy 2 x 5D, or is it 3 x 5D for the same money as 1 x 1DsMkIII.

I think the next transition for my working Kit would be based on 60D and 5DMkIII – or 50D and 5DMkII, but I don't think I will be in the business for that much longer . . . so that is an element also and why I do not have 2 x 50D and 2 x 5D, now.

There are many elements to it all – it is kinda like having kids – the costs are never ending.

I think the base kit for a Wedding Pro requires 4 Digital bodies, if there is not any other immediate method or means of capture available to them. That statement freaks out those who buy a DSLR and a kit lens decide they will “get into the business” . . .

I guess then after we buy a few camera bodies for the Wedding Kit we talk about lenses (the need for fast lenses) and Flash (the need for power) . . . and that’s just part of the “Tools of Trade” expense . . . you know what I mean . . . ?

WW

Gee I hope I got all those silly Canon suffixes correct – they are a minefield who thinks them up?

And why does the “s” designate 135 format ? ! ? I never worked that out.

[Colin Southern]

Do: EOS 1, EOS 1n and EOS 1v count in the reckoning?

No.

Actually, I was more curious from an AF performance point of view. Personally, I don't rely on AF for landscape, but I've a collegue who uses a 1D3 and 5D2 for weddings and he tells me that in low light situations the 5D2 AF will hunt whereas the 1D3 always locks on 1st time, and I was just curious as to whether or not you'd had any similar experiences.

And why does the “s” designate 135 format ? ! ? I never worked that out.

I like to think of the "s" as standing for "superior", although "standard" (as in standard format) is probably more accurate!

[William W]

Actually, I was more curious from an AF performance point of view. Personally, I don't rely on AF for landscape, but I've a collegue who uses a 1D3 and 5D2 for weddings and he tells me that in low light situations the 5D2 AF will hunt whereas the 1D3 always locks on 1st time, and I was just curious as to whether or not you'd had any similar experiences.

It actually depends a lot on one's techniques.

Personally I don't rely on AF all that much anyway - especially at Weddings. I have my Zone DoF implanted in my brain.

In really low light, sans Flash Assist (the hunting you mention) yes all my cameras "hunt" but in this situations I use MF - centre point - and confirm Focus and then Recompose - even for shallow DoF.

My guess is your colleague does not have grey hair , and with it the experiences of days shooting: MF; Pre focus point; Zone Focus - ONLY.

Not that super quick AF is not a wonderful thing - it is. But even for swimming (as it is a rhythmic action), I still use a pre focus point quite often, rather than using CF4 = 3 and AI Servo, for example.

But, one of my "borrowed" 1 series bodies is ace number one on the hockey or footy sideline, though – the AF eats it up.

WW

EG - really pushing the limits of a 20D and a 50mm in low light & Playing with Manual Focus and Recompose: F/2 @ 1/50s @ ISO3200