Another Swan - High Key Attempt

[Brownbear]

Dave, thank you for the link. very helpful because I am trying to learn how to do it in post-processing, too.

Kaye, yes that's some discussion and they still have not answered my question, so I am going to try once more. PS Thank you, and I will try a square crop.

Colin I would really like to learn how to take a high key photo with a white bird. I do believe I can do it, have done it with dark birds using spot metering and exposing to the right which blows the highlights in the sky and moves the shadows and the midtones along the histogram.

I am struggling with the idea of blowing the highlights on a white bird as it seems like the wrong thing to do... ?

There is a beautiful back-lit high key white egret in the Secrets of Digital Bird Photography. Is this one way for me to try to capture a high key white bird, backlit, spot metered, and possibly flash? If not, how might I do this? By checking my histogram and exposing to blow certain colour channels (highlights only) and if yes, which colour channel do I choose... Say blue or green so I don't effect the orange bill of a swan?

Fig. 6.4.2 : Polar bear in a snow storm (or maybe it’s a snowy egret in blinding
backlight?). This is another example of a “high-key” image, which some people
like and some don’t. Evaluative/matrix metering would probably (depending on
the camera model) try to render this whole image in a neutral gray, and although
you could adjust the brightness upwards in postprocess to achieve the high-key
effect, you can get lower noise and more detail by exposing for high-key at the outset.
(1/320 sec, f/8, ISO 1250, 600mm, manual mode, TTL flash at +1 FEC).

http://www.digitalbirdphotography.com/6.4.html

Aside... My ultimate Nikon SLR handbook volume 2 October 2013 page 120 states that I have a back-lit mode in my Nikon 7100 (I have yet to try and find it, but will do) and says that this High Key mode...

is good for light-tone objects, producing light airy pictures but without overexposing the highlights...

From your conversation with Mike, I'm thinking this is incorrect?

Thank you.

[Brownbear]

I went out this morning and gave it another try. I used spot metering and positive exposure compensation ranging from 3 to 4. Funnily enough when one tries to blow the highlights it is truly hard to do, and I never quite manage to blow the highlights in the birds but I did manage to blow the background.

I believe these are high-key photos because the histogram starts in the middle or near the middle and extends to the far right. I processed very lightly Auto WB, sharpening adding a little whites and lifting the highlight section of the curves tool just a tad to blow the highlights of the bird just a tad... (to ensure I did not ruin the histogram) I have to admit I'm uncomfortable with doing that after not clipping anything has been drummed into my head for so long by members of this forum.

Anyway, I would truly appreciate knowing if these are truly high key photos, and if not, why not because I wish to try it on a swan. It's a lot easier than selecting around a bird. I never did find the preset for high key on my camera, so manual and just a guessing game.

Thank you.

#1



#2



#3



#4

The heron with post processing to clip the highlights.

[Colin Southern]

Colin I would really like to learn how to take a high key photo with a white bird. I do believe I can do it, have done it with dark birds using spot metering and exposing to the right which blows the highlights in the sky and moves the shadows and the midtones along the histogram.

To be honest, I really don't know how well it would work (to my definition of high-key anyway); in my mind it's just not a subject that has the tonal variation in the highlights that would suit it (they're all much the same, so it's hard to blow some areas but leave others in tact and still have it look OK).

To my eye, the images you've shot above still don't look high-key; they just look over exposed and washed out without some darker tones to act as a anchor. That's the essence of the problem; it's not just up-shifting tones - it's up-shifting only SOME of the tones, leaving others in place as a reference. I don't do a lot of this kind of thing (hence the reason I'm not a lot of help), but when I to it revolves around pushing and pulling tonal ranges in ACR - using curves - and using a lot of hand dodging and burning.

[Brownbear]

Hi Colin,

Thank you for sharing and for your advice. Did you look at the link that I included in my post before this... There is a photo of a white egret, with black feet and a yellow beak that looks beautiful and high-key to me. When I see that photo it makes me think that this is something that could work.

http://www.digitalbirdphotography.com/6.4.html (2nd image in this link)

Is it possible to up shift only some tones in camera? I did not process these much except to increase the whites and highlights. I could try darkening the blues in the heron, and the red/pink to bring out the feet in the gulls?

Thank you. Appreciated.

To be honest, I really don't know how well it would work (to my definition of high-key anyway); in my mind it's just not a subject that has the tonal variation in the highlights that would suit it (they're all much the same, so it's hard to blow some areas but leave others in tact and still have it look OK).

To my eye, the images you've shot above still don't look high-key; they just look over exposed and washed out without some darker tones to act as a anchor. That's the essence of the problem; it's not just up-shifting tones - it's up-shifting only SOME of the tones, leaving others in place as a reference. I don't do a lot of this kind of thing (hence the reason I'm not a lot of help), but when I to it revolves around pushing and pulling tonal ranges in ACR - using curves - and using a lot of hand dodging and burning.

[Mike Buckley]

Christina,

Rather than become concerned about whether or not a particular photo is a high-key photo, I recommend that you decide whether the look is what you want and, if not, what to do to make it different.

While I agree with Colin that most of the images simply look overexposed, photo #3 is quite nice for my taste. Personally, I would use the curve to make the grey tones ever so slightly darker. If you can work with your photo to provide separation between the bird and the background everywhere that it is currently missing, doing so would certainly take the image to the next level that would be truly admirable.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

Yes, it is just that decided that I do l like the high key look, a lot so I was trying to figure out how to photograph birds this way, as something new to learn and try to do. I didn't actually clip any of the birds in camera (even though I blew the background)

Thank you. I will work on my heron, and my processing exercise on my swans. Thanks for the tip on the greys.

Did you look at the photo of the white egret in the link? If yes, do you think that the white egret works well as a high key photo? I like the egret a lot, and also Donald's white swan (monthly competition winner), and Terry's edit of my swans, so all of these things say to me that high key on a white bird can work well, I just don't know how to do it. I realize that I can do it with post processing once I learn but it seems better to start with a photo, photographed that way on purpose. Hence my photographic exercise.

Thank you.

Christina,

Rather than become concerned about whether or not a particular photo is a high-key photo, I recommend that you decide whether the look is what you want and, if not, what to do to make it different.

While I agree with Colin that most of the images simply look overexposed, photo #3 is quite nice for my taste. Personally, I would use the curve to make the grey tones ever so slightly darker. If you can work with your photo to provide separation between the bird and the background everywhere that it is currently missing, doing so would certainly take the image to the next level that would be truly admirable.

[Loose Canon]

Hi Christina!

I followed the link and had a gander at your example.

Just a couple of observations if I may?

First I like the shot and I can see why you do too.

But it seems to me that they are discussing how to get the bird properly exposed. In this case against the sun. Not to overexpose for an end use of a high key rendering. Also I noticed that the shooter used a flash.

It looks to me that the bird in your example’s legs, eye and beak have not been pushed as far. Could this possibly be the “anchor” that has been discussed? And if you think yes, then would it be better to have a more properly exposed bird to retain that anchor and work up from there in post?

Just a theory!

[Loose Canon]

Let me just say before I post this that no one’s life is ever truly wasted!

One may always serve as a bad example!

And that’s what I’m probably going to do here!

But if I were going to try for a high key effect of the original shot, here is a quickie of how I might go about it!

Not everything has been pushed. I usually like the eyes to be a focal point doing humans or animals. The eye is drawn to the brightest part of an image except when the image is very light and then it is drawn to the darkest part of the image.

Which is why I left the eyes almost total black (for those keeping score they read 0-0-0 in almost the total area).

The swan was pretty well exposed to begin with and I worked up from there.

Probably that bad example I mentioned but it does illustrate a point (maybe)!

Done in Elements v6.0 (Jeez I'm olde! ).

[Brownbear]

Hi Terry,

Thank you for checking in on me and sharing your observations.

I'm glad you can see why I like the shot. And yes, they were referring to the proper exposure of the bird. I was purposely trying to overexpose the photos I tried this morning, following my own interpretation of Colin's statement on blowing the highlights in high key photos. ie; an experiment of my own to see if I could do it in camera which would make post processing a lot easier. Fortunately I could not manage to over expose my birds, just my background (it was too foggy). The overexposure of the actual bird is from me pushing the whites and the highlights way over to the right, trying to blow the highlights.

I tried flash on a couple of birds and those shots were deleted in camera... (on camera flash)

Yes,I can see that the legs, eye and beak must be the anchor for the high key egret. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

I was of the mind that it would be easier to blow the background while photographing the birds (and yes, hoping for a high-key shot to magically emerge out of my camera) I'm thinking that will be easier for me to start with the blown white background to begin with so I would not have to select around the bird to lighten the background as I had to do with the swan at the beginning of this post. ie; that it would be easier to do.

I do think I managed to keep all of my birds, properly exposed (no clipping anywhere). They are just exposed a little bit to the right so all I will have to do in post processing is decrease the exposure a little bit, with no noise. But of course I didn't manage to create a high key image right out of the camera so I will have to revisit curves.

Yes, just a theory and likely a strong theory...

I am going to give my high key swans edit a few more tries, and once I manage something decent I will work on the swan in this thread, and then my herons...

Thank you Terry. Truly appreciated.

Hi Christina!

I followed the link and had a gander at your example.

Just a couple of observations if I may?

First I like the shot and I can see why you do too.

But it seems to me that they are discussing how to get the bird properly exposed. In this case against the sun. Not to overexpose for an end use of a high key rendering. Also I noticed that the shooter used a flash.

It looks to me that the bird in your example’s legs, eye and beak have not been pushed as far. Could this possibly be the “anchor” that has been discussed? And if you think yes, then would it be better to have a more properly exposed bird to retain that anchor and work up from there in post?

Just a theory!

[Brownbear]

And I hope that you will not find that the time you have spent trying to teach me this is not wasted. I will manage to learn to do this even though I may seem a little slow to learn, a light bulb is destined to power up, one day, hopefully soon.

Thank you for taking the time to show me this. I like the look of the edit.... and your explanation is very helpful.

I usually like the eyes to be a focal point doing humans or animals. The eye is drawn to the brightest part of an image except when the image is very light and then it is drawn to the darkest part of the image.

Is there a particular reason you choose to increase the highlights on the top of the head and on the neck? Just an artistic feeling as to which parts of the photo should be pushed?

Yes, you have illustrated your theory very well. Thank you for taking the time to show me this. I am going to try this one too, after I manage my swans...

Jeez your talented!

Let me just say before I post this that no one’s life is ever truly wasted!

One may always serve as a bad example!

And that’s what I’m probably going to do here!

But if I were going to try for a high key effect of the original shot, here is a quickie of how I might go about it!

Not everything has been pushed. I usually like the eyes to be a focal point doing humans or animals. The eye is drawn to the brightest part of an image except when the image is very light and then it is drawn to the darkest part of the image.

Which is why I left the eyes almost total black (for those keeping score they read 0-0-0 in almost the total area).

The swan was pretty well exposed to begin with and I worked up from there.

Probably that bad example I mentioned but it does illustrate a point (maybe)!

Done in Elements v6.0 (Jeez I'm olde! ).

[Loose Canon]

I gotta say Christina I really admire the fact that you know what you want and are not afraid to get in there and get it!

Atta girl!

[Colin Southern]

While I agree with Colin that most of the images simply look overexposed, photo #3 is quite nice for my taste.

That was my pick of the 3 also.

Christina, I suspect that you're probably not too far short of the mark so far -- the bit that "pulls the rug out from underneath it" for me is not having enough low tones (even limited ones) to produce a visual anchor for the shot - inc your #3 shot. The difference between that and the shot you linked too was that the linked shot just had that little more black in it to make the difference; without it the images just look flat and over-exposed (although your #3 shot less so).

Probably the secret to what you're wanting to achieve will start with a proper exposure - correct black and white points - and then a strong curve between them, followed by some hand burning of the dark areas; that's how I'd approach it anyway.

Looks to me like Terry has got the best handle on it so far.

[Colin Southern]

PS: Personally, I'd re-interpret the Heron like this ...

Still High-key, but with more low-tone anchoring

[Brownbear]

Colin,

If I may confirm, one last thing and that is your statement...

correct black and white points - and then a strong curve between them,

Is it correct to say that in a high key photo the black point will start in the middle of the histogram?

Thank you.

And a special thank you for the gull edit. I copied it and I can see the histogram which is very helpful... I can also now see the anchor points, the darker tones that you are referring to.

[Brownbear]

Lol

i gotta say christina i really admire the fact that you know what you want and are not afraid to get in there and get it!

Atta girl!

[Colin Southern]

Colin,

If I may confirm, one last thing and that is your statement...

correct black and white points - and then a strong curve between them,

Is it correct to say that in a high key photo the black point will start in the middle of the histogram?

Not really - because if it's in the middle of the histogram then almost by definition it's not a black point - it'll be a middle gray.

That the crux of the issue in what separates a high-key image from an over-exposed one; an over-exposed image won't have any blacks (which usually sit around 2 stops below middle gray) (if it's over-exposed 2 stops then what would have been a black at -2EV to middle gray will now be a middle gray). So what I like to see in a high-key image are the majority of tones above middle gray, but something either black or dark gray to provide some contrast.

Normally an image will average out to have as much under the middle gray point as above it, but not so with a high-key image ... that's where the strong curve "shifts the middle bit upwards", but doesn't touch the end points. It's a bit like lining up basketball players along the length of the court in order of size. The middle guy stands on the centre line. Now with a "curve applied" the shortest guy is still at one end and the tallest guy is still at the other end (they don't move) but you now have only 3 guys in the lower half (30 feet apart), but now have 7 guys squeezed together in the top half, only 10 feet apart.

Apologies to anyone who understands Basketball! (I don't!)

[Colin Southern]

I think an ideal high-key is kinda like a pencil or charcoal drawing; most of it is white (the paper), but the attraction comes from the contrast (the granite / charcoal etc). It doesn't have to be black, but at least a dark gray in places to make the image work.

[Loose Canon]

And I hope that you will not find that the time you have spent trying to teach me this is not wasted.

Not at all Christina! I’m always happy to serve as a bad example!

Is there a particular reason you choose to increase the highlights on the top of the head and on the neck?

No particular reason Christina. I did a fair bit of dodging and burning with this, which is a lot of fun. You can forget the technical aspects and go wild (or not) as the mood dictates. I like the swan’s neck fading into white leaving the gray areas to “suggest” the neck line. With a treatment like this I don’t think there always has to be hard and fast delineated lines to define the shot. The viewer “gets it” anyway and that adds to the “dream-like” quality of the high key.

It was just simply one interpretation.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Colin,

I don't know much about basketball but your explanation is wonderful. The next time I try this I will keep it in mind, as well as you pencil charcoal drawing effect. Very helpful.

Not really - because if it's in the middle of the histogram then almost by definition it's not a black point - it'll be a middle gray.

That the crux of the issue in what separates a high-key image from an over-exposed one; an over-exposed image won't have any blacks (which usually sit around 2 stops below middle gray) (if it's over-exposed 2 stops then what would have been a black at -2EV to middle gray will now be a middle gray). So what I like to see in a high-key image are the majority of tones above middle gray, but something either black or dark gray to provide some contrast.

Normally an image will average out to have as much under the middle gray point as above it, but not so with a high-key image ... that's where the strong curve "shifts the middle bit upwards", but doesn't touch the end points. It's a bit like lining up basketball players along the length of the court in order of size. The middle guy stands on the centre line. Now with a "curve applied" the shortest guy is still at one end and the tallest guy is still at the other end (they don't move) but you now have only 3 guys in the lower half (30 feet apart), but now have 7 guys squeezed together in the top half, only 10 feet apart.

Apologies to anyone who understands Basketball! (I don't!)

[Brownbear]

I tried another high key edit on the heron because it seemed easier to do then the swan... (Later this week I will try both Terry's and Wendy's edit suggestion)

The original PP to have a black point, and in hindsight I think I made the heron too dark, but this is just a learning exercise for me and it has been great since I'm working on learning about post processing, and I've learned a lot about high key images.




Processed to be high key and black and white... In hindsight a different subject would likely be a better candidate for high key, and I shouldn't have overexposed the stump the heron was perched on but next time I will know better.