Hungary Lion?

[FrankMi]

I’d like to try an experiment with you if I may.

Below is a picture of a lion. I’d like you to take a look but not scroll down until you have formed an impression.







I am trying to develop my post processing techniques so I am looking for ways that this image could be improved.


Once you have gathered your thoughts, take a look at the SOOC image below.







Other than the brightness, you’ll likely notice that the lion’s eyes are almost closed so he is likely dozing in the shade.

To get the more aggressive look, I used the image below as a source for replacing the droopy eyes in post processing.



Because this third image wasn’t as sharp as the second one and I wanted to retain the lion’s detail as much as possible, only the lion’s eyes were blended into the second image.

Additionally, I applied some eye enhancement techniques much as you would to a human portrait. In fact, I frequently find that adding a simple catch light to animal’s eyes can greatly improve their appearance on occasion. In this case a touch of dodging to lighten the iris and catch light and burning to better define and sharpen the pupils seemed to help.

The goal was to produce a final image was as totally natural and expected, and interesting enough to capture your attention for more than just a glance.

And the questions are:

Did we succeed in our goals?

If not, what needs improvement and what techniques could be used to obtain a better final image?

Please feel free to play with any of the images posted if you so desire.

[Geoff F]

Seems to have worked OK. Try a large size print and check that.

I did wonder about a small patch of colour just to the left of the Lion's left eye (the right eye as we view the image). But the slight oddness is in the original so it must have really looked like that.

You could have even made him cross eyed. Was that one, from long ago, called Clarence? I can't remember for sure!

[IzzieK]

Is the lion really from Hungary? Just asking...I wouldn't know the difference between a Hungary lion and an Africaan anyway...

[chauncey]

I might have missed the eyes on a quick glance but the more I studied, the more I realized they weren't right.

[Mike Buckley]

I wouldn't know the difference between a Hungary lion and an Africaan anyway...

I wouldn't know the difference between a Hungary lion and a hungry lion.

Seriously, none of the lions that I saw recently in South Africa have the dark mane that this lion has.

[FrankMi]

Seems to have worked OK. Try a large size print and check that.

I did wonder about a small patch of colour just to the left of the Lion's left eye (the right eye as we view the image). But the slight oddness is in the original so it must have really looked like that.

You could have even made him cross eyed. Was that one, from long ago, called Clarence? I can't remember for sure!

I found a number of things about this particular animal that I felt were different from the black spot on his forehead to the white beard. I guess I just haven't seen enough lions to really know what to expect. Thank you for the feedback Geoff.

[FrankMi]

Is the lion really from Hungary? Just asking...I wouldn't know the difference between a Hungary lion and an Africaan anyway...

apparently, neither do I. As long as no one tries to mess up my reputation as an literate speller I guess I'll do fine. LOL! Thanks for the feedback!

[FrankMi]

I might have missed the eyes on a quick glance but the more I studied, the more I realized they weren't right.

OK, now for the hard part (big grin ). What needs to be changed and how can I do it? Any thoughts?

[FrankMi]

I wouldn't know the difference between a Hungary lion and a hungry lion.

Seriously, none of the lions that I saw recently in South Africa have the dark mane that this lion has.

Hi Mike! They only had the one lion (and a lioness) at this zoo so I have nothing else to compare it to.

hmmm... I thought the spelling of hungry looked a bit odd

[FrankMi]

Here is this ones mate.

[IzzieK]

I love this one...very laid back...'must be an Aussie lioness...

Here is this ones mate.

[Glenn NK]

I wouldn't know the difference between a Hungary lion and a hungry lion.

Seriously, none of the lions that I saw recently in South Africa have the dark mane that this lion has.

But I think this lion is not hungry, because I think it's in a zoo and doesn't have to work too hard for food.

And maybe it spends much time in the shade and its mane hasn't faded - like the ones in Africa.

Just wondering.

[Neilmac50]

This might be a bit unfair,but coming from someone who has worked with lions the first image didn't look right with the eyes,I in fact guessed that it was a 'stuffed' animal and not real on examining carefully the image.The pupils didn't match the rest of the lions facial expression,not something I can put into words just the combination of how his ears rested compared to the aggressive look of the eyes.Neil

[Mike Buckley]

Now that I have seen Neil's comment, it might be helpful to know that my initial reaction to the image was that the open mouth is a yawn rather than an aggressive posture. So, the eyes looked all wrong to me because their aggressive look doesn't match the passive look of the mouth. I didn't mention it when I first posted in the thread because I have no expertise about how lions normally look and didn't want my impression to be misleading.

Notice that the pupils of the source image are much closer to the lion's eye lids than in your revised image. For me, that's the difference between a passive look in the source image and an aggressive look in the revised image, though remember that I have no basis other than gut reaction for thinking that.

[FrankMi]

I think you are both on the right track. The second image was much softer than the first and I was trying to sharpen the eyes just enough to match. Not understanding the 'look' of the animal behavior involved, it was difficult to know exactly how to sharpen the pupils. It was also hard to determine in the soft image exactly where the edges of the pupils were so the exact position and size was arrived at mostly by trying to get them to be both the same size and looking in the same direction. In some attempts Geoff, he DID look downright cross-eyed!

In the end, the result gave the lion an aggressive look in the eyes but not in the mouth. I couldn't figure out what didn't add up so your insight is invaluable for my next attempt.

I'll go back and rework the soft pupils but see if I can't get them more realistically slightly higher in the eyelids. Any other suggestions you might have would be appreciated!

Thanks again for the keen observations Neil and Mike!

[Downrigger]

Awesome PP skill, Frank. Here's what I think is might be up with the eyes though: The "new" Hungary Lion appears aroused EXCEPT the pupils aren't dilated. With arousal (anger/threat/opposite sex) the pupils dilate, and in fact this is a social cue too (in experimental settings, humans favor opposite sex images with dilated pupils). I wonder if the eyes would seem a little less out of place if the pupils were a bit more dilated. "Hungary" looks a bit as though he's into a bit of smack.

[Mike Buckley]

more realistically slightly higher in the eyelids.

I just now looked through all of my and my wife's photos of lions that we recently took in South Africa. The pupils are closer to the eyelids than the center of the eye in every single case. That's true whether the lion is a male or a female and whether viewed from either side, above or below. In all cases, the lions were in a relaxed, passive mood.

If it helps, refer to this thread. If you want to use any of my full-size images as a source file, I'll be happy to send anything to you that will be helpful.

[FrankMi]

Awesome PP skill, Frank. Here's what I think is might be up with the eyes though: The "new" Hungary Lion appears aroused EXCEPT the pupils aren't dilated. With arousal (anger/threat/opposite sex) the pupils dilate, and in fact this is a social cue too (in experimental settings, humans favor opposite sex images with dilated pupils). I wonder if the eyes would seem a little less out of place if the pupils were a bit more dilated. "Hungary" looks a bit as though he's into a bit of smack.

A keen observation Mark. As my goal is primarily to avoid the almost closed eyes in the first shot, I'd like the result to be as natural for the conditions, including the yawn (that might be mistaken for a growl!) as I can get. I think I need to keep the eyes close to the original but, as Mike points out, higher in the eyelid.

If I ever need to do eye retouching on a more angry subject (or a sultry vixen), I'll definitely keep your thoughts in mind!

Thank you for commenting.

[Downrigger]

If I ever need to do eye retouching on a more angry subject (or a sultry vixen), I'll definitely keep your thoughts in mind!

There's some on this here http://www.the-scientist.com/?articl...upil-Dilation/ and a lot more in various places. I wonder how many pro portraitists know about or use this?

[FrankMi]

Thanks Mike! I see what you are referring to in your link and it gives me a much better idea on how these two images should be blended. I appreciate the offer of the source files but I would really prefer to use the original lion for the 'sleepy' eye correction.

I'm not as keen on composite images as I am on getting the original image to look as good as I can get it.

On the other hand, I did find the following composite image rather amusing!