Image Output (JPEG) Poor Tones/Contrast

[LeonardK]

Hi peeps,

I've been trying to search for tips and answers on this but I can seem to find any suitable results.
Hence I have decided to post and try to explain.

This is only for images that were taken with poor lighting, however they are not night shots. It can be in a home with normal yellow or white light (but not bright).

Basically when I edit the RAW image in Lightroom, I can get the colors how I want it to be and I use curves to make the image brighter. My curves are usually slight and not overly done.
Then I would usually export the images as JPEG so that I can do cropping in Photoshop. I don't do any color or do any further enhancement on the images in Photoshop. Only cropping.
However then JPEG output is usually poor in the tones/contrast. Yes I am aware that JPEG will have poor output.
The problem is that in Lightroom and Photoshop, the same JPEG looks good in color and contrast and whatever.
But when I open using Windows Picture Viewer, the darker colors are terrible. To be specific, the shadowed areas are like dark and smudged. It's like dark grey, orangey smudge and the image doesn't look sharp.

If the image is taken well lighted there is of course no problem there.
So then what is wrong with the editing or exporting that could cause the difference.
In this case, if the editing looks good in Adobe, how then can I ensure a good export to JPEG so that I can post online or do printing?

Thanks in advance.

[IzzieK]

Have you thought of calibrating your monitor/s? I used to have the same problems you have here. My work flow at that time usually includes the Window Picture Viewer just to see how it will appear in someone else's monitor/s. Not anymore..., in Photoshop, when an image opens in ACR, at the bottom of the photo are some text which you can click on and change your settings to srgb/8bit so that when you start working on your image, what you see will also be what others will see when you upload a photo. Sorry I can't help you with Lightroom -- I don't have it.

[LeonardK]

Hi Izzie,

Thank you so much for replying. Well I do know it's not the issue with the monitor cause I open up the image in Photoshop on my laptop as well.
Basically I know that JPEG images will be poorer but the thing is that when I open the same JPEG in Photoshop, the colors are back and the the contrasts are clear. Shadowed areas are no longer smudged.
I just don't get how Photoshop can show a good quality of the same JPEG.

[Downrigger]

Right... seems like its the Windows picture viewer, not the file. Have you exported the JPEGS to a second device and viewed them there?

[davidedric]

Or you could upload an image here. See what it looks like and let some of the hotshots have a look?

[DanK]

Sounds like either uncalibrated monitors, a problem wit Windows picture viewer, or both.

This is a bit off topic, but there is no reason to move the images to Photoshop if you are not doing more editing that Lightroom can't do. You can certainly crop and export as jpeg for Lightroom.

[LeonardK]

@ david - haha that is funny to read. Good idea I'll upload.

@ dan - you are right dan. the reason i don't do it in Lightroom is because of my style of cropping and resizing. I guess I'm just used to Photoshop and my procedures are smooth with Photoshop. Also sometimes I decide to design a standard 4x6 photo with a few different shots or other kinds of design inspiration. So I don't do photo enhancements but I might do design layouts.
Perhaps as some of you guys said it's calibration.

I have a feeling it's just due to the de-saturation of the darker colors that JPEG can't handle so well.

Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...s/Uno%2003.jpg

[Andrew1]

Unless your monitor is properly calibrated, any cause and effect analysis within post processing utilizing a mixture of programs is purely a guess. Even by your own explanation you are starting out with poor photos. You need to improve that as well. If you are serious about photography get a good quality product to calibrate your screen. Find a reputable printer and get a few prints made without correction and you'll see how well you're doing.

Trying to make your photos look as you intended in jpeg on a mixture other peoples uncalibrated monitors is impossible. Even on your own screen you get different results with different programs so you can't expect others to get any better. To improve you need the basics and that begins with consistency in what you are seeing every day. Get the right tools.

[ajohnw]

It sounds very much like a colour management problem to me. Your best option is to search your version of windows plus colour management and find out how to install the profile your Adobe stuff is using system wide. On the other hand if you are working in Adobe RGB on a sRGB monitor you could still have a problem. You best bet in that case would be to save an sRGB version or stop using Adobe RGB.

If you are using a calibrator I posted some links in the calibration thread to some software that will tell you in no uncertain terms if your have a grey scale problem and also if your monitor can actually calibrate to aRGB. It will also install profiles system wide on all OS's it will run on for you if requested.

John
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[Manfred M]

Leonard - while I agree with others that this is a colour management issue, you also seem to be a bit confused by the quality of jpeg images. Any image (other than some pretty basic graphics) on the internet is a jpeg. Your RAW file (depending on your camera will be 12-bit or 14-bit that is packed with zeros to convert to 16 bit. Having all this data can be important when you edit as it gives Lightroom and Photoshop more intermediate data to work with, giving (in theory, but not always in practice) a cleaner final product.

A jpeg has several downsides; namely that it is 8-bit and it uses lossy compression. Generally, this is not a big deal if converting to jpeg is the final step in your workflow; as long as you do no more manipulation of your final image (or have overcompressed it), your output will look just fine. All images displayed on the internet are jpegs and unless you have a high end IPS screen on your computer or laptop, you will be looking a 8-bit images there too (predominantly the sRGB colour space). This is NOT a jpeg issue.

You also have a bit unusual workflow. You might want to look at using Adobe Bridge and use Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) instead of Lightroom. ACR uses the same processing engine as Lightroom, but the layout gives you more screen real-estate to work with.

[John Morton]

My suggestion would be to check and see that you don't have the color space of your software set to something other than sRGB; because browsers and picture viewers will display jpeg files as if they are sRGB and if they are Adobe RGB or something else then the colors you end up seeing won't be the colors you edited the images for; and this might be particularly pronounced in areas where the color gamut is close to its outside edge in sRGB color (if your camera and / or software is set to Adobe RGB then you will notice a big shift in the green color range when looking at one of your jpeg files in a browser or a picture viewer).

[LeonardK]

YES! All you guys rock! Thanks to each one of your inputs, it has helped me resolve it. As most of you mentioned it was a calibration issue however, it wasn't a calibration with my monitor. It was simply windows.
It never hit me before because I do everything with Lightroom and Photoshop. Only recently friends have been asking for photos which I send them the JPEG and realized that for darker images the color wasn't as I wanted.

@ Andrew1 - wow! A little strong to think that I'm not serious or using poor quality products? How do you even know what my gear is and my rig to suggest that? Maybe the photo wasn't good but perhaps there's something about it that is worth the work? Maybe the image is sentimental to a friend who is requesting to try to get it improved even though truly the shot was not good? The purpose of the discussion was not actually the original quality or perfection of the image but rather how Windows displays the image differently from Adobe.

@ rest - thanks for your time and help in troubleshooting this. Pointed me in the right direction you all did.

[Glenn NK]

Hi peeps,

I edit the RAW image in Lightroom . . .

Then I would usually export the images as JPEG so that I can do cropping in Photoshop. I don't do any color or do any further enhancement on the images in Photoshop. Only cropping.

My only comment is why are you exporting JPEG images, not DNG's or TIFF's to Photoshop?

You've started off right using RAW, then converted to a lossy format (JPEG).

Glenn

[Andrew1]

Leonard, you misinterpreted my message. I don't know what equipment you have and am suggesting nothing about it's quality as I don't really care. Many people produce excellent results with their gear and it has more to do with knowing your tools than it does with $$$. From your posts I guessed you don't have a calibrator or are not knowledgeable/confident about using it. I merely stated to get a good quality one when you do. Nothing else.

[Colin Southern]

@ Andrew1 - wow! A little strong to think that I'm not serious or using poor quality products? How do you even know what my gear is and my rig to suggest that? Maybe the photo wasn't good but perhaps there's something about it that is worth the work? Maybe the image is sentimental to a friend who is requesting to try to get it improved even though truly the shot was not good? The purpose of the discussion was not actually the original quality or perfection of the image but rather how Windows displays the image differently from Adobe.

Leonard,

Andrew isn't suggesting that you're not serious; he's merely saying that if you ARE serious (and I'm sure that nobody doubts that you are) then what follows is what he's suggesting. Perhaps put another way would be "I suggest people who are serious about their photography do this ...".

Glad you got it sorted.