What makes a good black & white photo?

[Photoman61640]

Hi Everyone,

Been a member of C.I.C for a couple of years but this is my first post.

I live it Pittsburgh, Pa. USA. I am considering applying for membership in an Art Society. This organization accepts both artists and photographers. It is a juried application. Since most of the members are artists I suspect they are viewing entries from the eye of an artist (painter).

I would like to consider specializing in Black & White photography for entry into the Art Societies. When I ask others what makes a good B&W photo I receive comments like whatever looks to you or whatever you like. To me that is not a very informative answer.

So I ask all of you, What makes a good B&W photo?. I guess I am looking for specifics that are more along the lines of technical suggestions. I have always thought that "blacks should be black" and whites should be white". How about grays?

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Gordon (alias Photoman)

[Mike Buckley]

Check out this thread for specific answers to your question.

Check out this thread for ideas about the thought process required to make effective black-and-white images.

[Manfred M]

Gordon - It's a good question, but is much like asking "what makes a good colour photo".

Good composition, compelling subject matter, good technical execution; regardless of whether you are shooting monochrome or colour; all are required to produce a good image.

What going monochrome does for the photographer is that it forces one of the key compositional elements, "simplification", onto the photographer (and the viewer). By removing colour we have rely more on tones and patterns in the subject matter. In my view, this is why certain images work better in monochrome and why others work better in colour.

I am trying to be careful in using the word monochrome, rather than B&W. Back in the darkroom days I used to pick specific B&W printing papers that exhibited different colour tones (warm-tone, cool tone, etc.) based on the paper weight and colour as well as the specific formulation of the emulsion. I did a tiny bit of sepia toning as well. In today's digital darkroom, it is quite easy to digitially tone the image and the background, and the "tricks" I learned in the wet darkroom work equally as well in the digital world.

[mknittle]

With the absence of color texture and contrast are your friends. Cloudy skies are most often better than clear boring skies. also fog can be useful. Go through the monochrome mini competitions and see what appeals to you. Also take a look at the winners of the competitions it may surprise you what is popular.

[Andrew76]

I have always thought that "blacks should be black" and whites should be white". How about grays?

For me, I think a good sampling of all of the zones 1-10 should be present. This effect helps define textures, and enhances contrasts. I use a loup in my conversion program that indicates which portions of the photo are in which zone, then I make adjustments/modifications to make sure they're all covered nicely.

Aside from the answers already given, I hope that helps.

[bambleweeney]

Composition, texture (or lack thereof) and composition. If you're doing a high key shot there should really be something black (or near) somewhere in the shot and vice versa for a low key shot.
Take a peek at 1x.com/photos where there are usually some very nice mono (and colour images)
I'd shoot RAW and convert in PS or something rather than leave it up to the camera in jpeg mode to give you far more control of the above.

[Richard Lundberg]

You might want to download Lightzone app as well.

[Donald]

I have always thought that "blacks should be black" and whites should be white".

Except when you study the main body of work of Paul Strand, who mastered the art of working in the range of greys.

What makes a good B & W? Line, Shape, Tone, Texture.

You might want to download Lightzone app as well.

I'm afraid I find this post a bit irrelevant. This is promoting a software post processing tool. There are lots of such tools available with which to make B & W images. Suggesting one over another to someone seeking to learn about the elements that make a good B & W, is, I suggest, particularly unhelpful, as well as having nothing to do with the question.

[Black Pearl]

Me

[Mike Buckley]

Me

You the subject, you the photographer, or both?

[John 2]

Lots of good advice already. Donald's advice on the importance of line, shape, tone and texture is worth remembering. I can only add that in my view, taking away the element of colour only works if you add something to the image in doing so . It doesn't work for everything. To get some idea of what that means, it's worth looking at some of the excellent mono work that can be found on the internet.

[John Morton]

Well, at the risk of being misunderstood and accused of saying something I am not, I am going to say: "Good tonal definition, with distinct and well contrasting grey values."

Now obviously, I am not suggesting that posturization or banding in what should be smooth gradients improves images! What I am saying, though, is this: if you work with 16 bit black and white images, you have around 65,000 levels of grey. That's a lot of space to move things around. By the time you convert to an 8 bit image, with 255 levels of grey, you should have managed to shift all of your greys far enough away from each other that you don't have a muddy, indistinct mess on your hands. to my mind, what makes a black and white image fail is not using the range of greys available to the best advantage, and mashing tones together when they could be better separated while at the same time wasting tonal range by not having anything make us of those tones.

[Richard Lundberg]

Ansel Adams spent a lot of his time on tone, so when I mention a free tool called Lightzone which is specifically designed for feathered selection toning I don't expect to be dismissed as irrelevant. If your intent is to discourage my participation, it worked perfectly.

[Donald]

Ansel Adams spent a lot of his time on tone, so when I mention a free tool called Lightzone which is specifically designed for feathered selection toning I don't expect to be dismissed as irrelevant. If your intent is to discourage my participation, it worked perfectly.

To my mind Gordon asked a question about what makes a good B & W, not what tools are available to help make a good B & W. I think that's a very different question. There are lots of tools available to help make a good B & W, but all of them are only there to enable a vision to be realised and skills to be be brought out and given expression. They do not make a good B & W image. The person does that.

If it hadn't been for the fact that Richard is now a member of the forum with a number of posts behind him, I would have deleted this as a spam message. It just came across as a piece of blatant marketing. There was no explanation about context or purpose, only a call to use this particular piece of software.

I'd suggest that when we recommend a particular piece of software to a fellow member, we explain the in the context of trying to help answer the question(s) that has been asked, particularly why that particular piece of software is being suggested and not any other. This forum is not a sales tool for any single product.

[NigelD]

To my mind Gordon asked a question about what makes a good B & W, not what tools are available to help make a good B & W. I think that's a very diffeernt question. There are lots of tools available to help make a good B & W, but all of them are only there to enable a vision to be realised and skills to be be brought out and given expression. They do not make a good B & W image. The person does that.

If it hadn't been for the fact that Richard is now a member of the forum with a number of posts behind him, I would have deleted this as a spam message. It just came across as a piece of blatant marketing. There was no explanation about context or purpose, only a call to use this particular piece of software.

I'd suggest that when we recommend a particular piece fo software to a fellow member, we explain the in the context of trying to help answer the question(s) that has been asked, particularly why that particular piece of software is being suggested and not any other. This forum is not a sales tool for any single product.

+1

[dabhand]

As with all other artistic work - subject and style - but what makes an image presented in black and white, good ?

Subject wise, is there a universal approach when addressing landscapes, portraits, macro imaging, motor sport etc ?

Style wise, is there a permutation of contrast, toning, shape, pattern, light quality etc which will appropriately present every subject ?

To my mind the answer is obviously no - no single / formulaic approach will appeal to all tastes.

As I have no idea of your preferences, I can only suggest you look at the work of as many photographers who specialize in the various subject areas, note down what appeals to you about their work and develop a subject area / style of your own accordingly.

But getting back to your post - you are making a juried application - so I guess there are only two options, either present your specific combination of subject / style and see how it goes, or develop an understanding of their tatse and submity accordingly.

[Brev00]

To me the question is just so vague. Black and white covers an enormous amount of ground, the same, in fact as color. Are we talking landscape, portrait, abstract, street, minimalism, nature, etc.? With each genre, different sorts of images come to my mind. With landscape, I think along the lines of what Ansel Adams did and think of very clean, highly processed images. Then, there is street where images can be gritty and almost painfully direct. So, there is your style, too. Although this is just a variation on what you called an unhelpful response, I think the most important thing is to find your style, your genre, and develop your eye within that field. Modeling yourself after a previous star or any specific advice here or elsewhere can only get you so far. After that, it is just you and the abyss.

[Donald]

To me the question is just so vague. ....

I take Larry's point and agree that we do need to think about what sort of images we're wanting to make. However, I go back to my response at Post #8 above - Line, Shape, Tone, Texture. I believe that no matter what the genre, whatever your preferred style may be (and it is important that you know that), these are the 4 basic elements of any good B & W image. Get these right in the correct combination (and that varies depending on all those other factors mentioned by Larry) and you'll end up with a good B & W.

[Black Pearl]

You the subject, you the photographer, or both?

Both

[Photoman61640]

First, I was surprised at all the different responses. I appreciate all that were received.
Second, I was referring to the subject matter not equipment. As an ex draftsman teacher, my mind is structured to think in terms of straight lines, boxes, corners, etc. I am trying to force myself to think "outside of the box" when looking at subject to photograph. That's the reason for my question.

In summary, most of you did answer my question. Here in Western Pa. during the winter the scenery is very gloomy except when it snows. Now that I have an idea as to what type of subject makes a good B&W photo, I have new enthusiasm to go outside on those gloomy days. Lots of interesting structure, texture, etc. around me.

Again, thanks to everyone. who responded. I may be older but I still thirst for knowledge.