Miscellaneous Questions - Sharpening/Luminosity & PSD vs DNG file

[Brownbear]

I'm trying to learn how to sharpen and reduce noise in an image using Photoshop Elements and/or Photoshop using a luminosity layer. (beginner level for layers)

1. My understanding of the advantage of using a luminosity layer is that sharpening will not change the colour of the image because it only works on the brighter/lighter pixels. And using a layer will allow me to selectively sharpen the bird and minimize noise.

I'm confused because when I use the brush to erase the sharpening on the background I see a clear white haze on the image which changes with the opacity of the layer. I've played with layers a couple of times before but I've never seen this.

2. I exported the file from Lightroom in the form of a PSD file (instead of my normal jpeg) thinking that it would be a larger file to work on. I realize that I could've exported the file as a DNG file. I see that the file size of a PSD file is very large. If I export a file from Lightroom in what format should I do so?

Thank you.

[Shadowman]

You can apply luminosity sharpening by just duplicating the background layer, go to unsharp mask and apply your sharpening settings, then go to the Layers palette and change the blend mode to luminosity, finalize by flattening the image.

With your method, are trying to apply creative sharpening on a specific portion of your image. leaving the remainder untouched?

[Brownbear]

Hi John,

Thank you. Yes, this is what I have done but the colour/light film of the luminosity mode is confusing to me. White to erase and black to undo the sharpening, but in luminosity mode their is a light white film that seems to remain on the image depending on the opacity of the layer... which is?

Yes, that is exactly what I'm trying to do.

You can apply luminosity sharpening by just duplicating the background layer, go to unsharp mask and apply your sharpening settings, then go to the Layers palette and change the blend mode to luminosity, finalize by flattening the image.

With your method, are trying to apply creative sharpening on a specific portion of your image. leaving the remainder untouched?

[Shadowman]

Christina,

It's hard to tell what you are experiencing without seeing the image, what were your settings for unsharp mask (amount, radius, threshold) and if you manipulate those prior to changing the blend mode does it take care of the white spots or does this occur when you change the blend mode?

The steps for extraordinary sharpening are provided in Kelby's "the Photoshop Elements # book for Digital Photographers". In it, Kelby applies additional sharpening to the background layer and he states that it is during this stage that the image can look too sharp and artificial, with halos or noise appearing.

[Colin Southern]

In my experience, the benefits of doing it this way are minimal at best, but the easiest way if you want to do it is probably to just ...

1. Image -> Mode -> LAB Color

2. Ctrl + 3 for the L (Luminance) Channel

3. Apply your sharpening

4. Ctrl + 2 to go back to all 3 channels

5. Image -> Mode -> RGB Color when you're finished.

[Brownbear]

John.... I figured it out. I am a bit embarrassed to say that I was using something called an impressionist brush instead of a real brush.

Colin.... Thank you. I'm just trying this for a learning exercise (to teach myself post processing). The image is another one of my noisy eagles... Would you not think that it would be best to selectively sharpen the eagle and not the background.. Starting with 200 and .3 radius as you do, and then after downsizing sharpen just the eagle once more as in the first step...

Or are you simply saying that you don't think that using a luminosity layer is very beneficial versus a regular layer?

I've noticed that if you try to reduce the noise in an image it changes the colour, so does not sharpening also effect the colour?

Thank you.

[Colin Southern]

John.... I figured it out. I am a bit embarrassed to say that I was using something called an impressionist brush instead of a real brush.

Colin.... Thank you. I'm just trying this for a learning exercise (to teach myself post processing). The image is another one of my noisy eagles... Would you not think that it would be best to selectively sharpen the eagle and not the background.. Starting with 200 and .3 radius as you do, and then after downsizing sharpen just the eagle once more as in the first step...

Or are you simply saying that you don't think that using a luminosity layer is very beneficial versus a regular layer?

I've noticed that if you try to reduce the noise in an image it changes the colour, so does not sharpening also effect the colour?

Thank you.

Hi Christina,

Do you have a link to the RAW file I can look at? Can't really say too much until I see what I'm dealing with.

[Shadowman]

John.... I figured it out. I am a bit embarrassed to say that I was using something called an impressionist brush instead of a real brush.

Thank you.

Thanks for the follow up Christina.

[Brownbear]

Hi Colin,

I will find the original raw file and upload it to the drop box.

John,

My mistake I was using the regular brush (not the impressionist brush)... here is a screen shot... As you can see when I try to erase the sharpening on the background (200, .3 radius, 0 threshold) the brush creates a white film on the image.

[Shadowman]

Hi Colin,

I will find the original raw file and upload it to the drop box.

John,

My mistake I was using the regular brush (not the impressionist brush)... here is a screen shot... As you can see when I try to erase the sharpening on the background (200, .3 radius, 0 threshold) the brush creates a white film on the image.

Christina,

In the Kelby book, the foreground color was set to black and in the layers pallet, he used a blank layer to reveal the sharpening. I tried the method as you described and somehow I got the same effect (black on the actual image not on the layer, but this only occurred in a neutral area) perhaps its meant to be applied only on areas similar to the foreground color chosen.

[Brownbear]

Hi Colin,

Here is the link. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggkq8b7d67sb89v/094.NEF

I honestly don't think anything can be done with it as it was a dark scene photographed at an iso of 3200 but still underexposed. I'm just trying to teach myself to selectively sharpen things and minimize noise.

Hi Christina,

Do you have a link to the RAW file I can look at? Can't really say too much until I see what I'm dealing with.

[Brownbear]

Hi John,

Yes, indeed. I just created a duplicate layer of the sharpened layer and when I work on this layer the brush works normally.

Thank you for your help. Truly appreciated.

Christina,

In the Kelby book, the foreground color was set to black and in the layers pallet, he used a blank layer to reveal the sharpening. I tried the method as you described and somehow I got the same effect (black on the actual image not on the layer, but this only occurred in a neutral area) perhaps its meant to be applied only on areas similar to the foreground color chosen.

[DanK]

One case where working with a luminosity mask can make a sizable difference is in changing contrast, e.g., by use of a curves adjustment. Check out this: http://www.photoshopessentials.com/p...es/luminosity/.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Christina,

Thanks for that - most helpful.

Bottom line is that it's an ISO 3200 shot on a camera that isn't going to produce a shot at ISO 3200 with out consequences (and the consequence is noise) (which is kinda understandable when we're only working with around 3% of the ideal amount of light). So if that's what we have to work with then so be it (although personally I'd be tempted to try ISO 800 @ 1/1000th @ F4 for that) (not saying it wouldn't necessarily introduce other issues, but one has to try these things to get the best compromise).

In processing, in ACR, I started with the following on the Basic and noise panels (2010 process) ...





Then in Photoshop I applied sharpening:

300 @ 0.3 @ 7 threshold (I don't normally use threshold, but you have to on high ISO images, which pretty much wipes it out anyway)

Then to the bird only, of

Firstly 10px @ 35% to give it a bit of "pop"

then 1px @ 500% to give a bit of detail

I can fire the PSD back at you if it helps?

Unfortunately, noise and sharpening work against each other. I'm not great with high-ISO images, but this is the best I could come up with.

[Brownbear]

Hi Colin,

Thank you so much for taking the time to show me this. It is very helpful and provides me with some insight on the how to's and the steps to take; what is possible and not possible with post processing a problem image. And it also helps me see when to trash an image... And also when to walk away and photograph something else until the light gets better. (Admittedly hard for me to do with an eagle - they were on the other side of a steep river bank that I could only get half way down)

BUT I see a definite improvement in the sharpness of the image. I have a couple of better eagle shots (yes, taken in better light at a slower shutter speed, lower iso with no extender on) and I am going to try your sharpening step by step. And I will post it here for others to learn from.

No need for the PSD....

Thank you.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Colin,

Thank you so much for taking the time to show me this. It is very helpful and provides me with some insight on the how to's and the steps to take; what is possible and not possible with post processing a problem image. And it also helps me see when to trash an image... And also when to walk away and photograph something else until the light gets better. (Admittedly hard for me to do with an eagle - they were on the other side of a steep river bank that I could only get half way down)

BUT I see a definite improvement in the sharpness of the image. I have a couple of better eagle shots (yes, taken in better light at a slower shutter speed, lower iso with no extender on) and I am going to try your sharpening step by step. And I will post it here for others to learn from.

No need for the PSD....

Thank you.

You're welcome

Just remember that since it's a compromise, the actual noise reduction and sharpening number WILL vary from image to image. Just vary them until the image looks it's best

[Geoff F]

Well, Christina, that eagle shot may not be a prizewinner but a lot of people would be overjoyed if they had taken it.

Here is my very quick edit.



Where you have been struggling, I wonder if you have a correct mask added to the layer?

Switching to Luminosity Blend on a sharpened layer will usually help if you are having problems, but as previously mentioned, it isn't a miracle cure and sometimes there is little or no apparent difference.

Where using a Luminosity Blend Mode can really make a difference is when using Curves etc.

With regard to image formats. I normally convert to DNG when uploading my Raw files. After editing, I save as PSD but keep the original Raw files as DNG for long time storage in case I want to go back and do a different edit in the future.

PSD is a fairly large file size - but a lot smaller than Tiff!

[Brownbear]

Thank you Geoff. I want an eagle just like the best ones I've seen posted here and by the Bird Art photographer. (still trying and likely, and it is frustrating learning experience)

Yes, I was mixed up with the layers but I'm gaining a better understanding of their use, and I am also learning how to use the curves tool so your help advice and help will stand me in good stead. (once it all sinks in)

Thank you for explaining your process with types of files. Appreciated.

[Colin Southern]

I reworked the noise and made a bigger version ...

[NorthernFocus]

Here is a version all done within LR, Christina.