Great Sand Dunes NP - Monochrome Reflections of Life

[terrib]

I agree with Terry: all good but #3 and #5 are exceptional.

At the risk of suggesting something you already tried: Raise the black point in #5 and determine if you find a look that works better for you.

By the way, my guess is that it's not so much the contrast that your grappling with as it is the dynamic range. Review your black and white points with that in mind.

Thanks, Mike. I just want to clarify. When you say "raise" the black point, you are saying move the slider to a higher number? Which would narrow the dynamic range?

And you are right about the dynamic range being the problem. I probably wasn't technically correct in using the term contrast but I was referring to all those adjustments.

With color, I know what I like. With monochrome, I'm still figuring out when I like what as far as tonal range, contrast, etc. What I think is good about thinking through it is that I'm forced to address mood and intent faster than if I were looking at it in color - if that makes any sense. I can see where Donald's discipline would make me think more in the field about the story. Get the horse before the cart, so to speak.

[terrib]

Great set, Terri. I also think the 3rd and 5th are the stand-outs. I wonder how the 5th would look if you cropped the bottom dune off so that there was just that giant S-curve occupying the frame.

Here is the image cropped as you suggested. I don't like it as much because I like the layers of light and dark in the original. But this one does force your eye more to the person.

[terrib]

Spectacular dunes you captured! This a very unusual place. I think the image and PP quality looks great, I wonder if I would like them better in color, but I am not everybody. Perhaps it just depends on your intent of course.

Here are a couple of them in color, Nick. But I prefer the monochrome.

[terrib]

Terri, this is a beautiful set of images. I think I can understand where Left behind, Lows and Highs and Ascension combined are a visual metaphor for you. How special that you can use your photography to address your "life experience over the past year". I will revisit this set from time-to-time. They have a universal quality. Thank you for posting these.

Thank you, Chuck.

[terrib]

And thank you to everyone who took the time to comment. I appreciate all your suggestions and compliments. And, Terry, thanks for the link to the contest. I like to see what other people are doing in the same places.

[bnnrcn]

Sorry for being a bit late Terri These are super shots. My favs are #3 and #5 and I also like the cropped #5

[vaez]

Very nice series Terri i lovely 3

[ShaneS]

Very nice series Terri...you should be proud of yourself for these exceptional images and the strength and emotional wherewithal that you have had to get through the challenges of the last year. Our most severe challenges are often hard to handle and that you have been able to channel that through your photography, or should I say art, is a true blessing as it would be much easier to curl up into a ball and hide one's head in the sand...

[Mike Buckley]

When you say "raise" the black point, you are saying move the slider to a higher number?

The next two paragraphs are copied and pasted from a message I posted just a day or so ago in Christina's thread:

To raise the black point is to map the darkest tones in the image to black and is done by moving the far left level tool to the right. Doing so raises the numerical value of that tool from zero to a higher value, which explains why doing that is called raising the black point. When the histogram does not extend to the left, the black point is lower (not higher) than it otherwise could be.

To lower the white point is to map the lightest tones in the image to white and is done by moving the far right level tool to the left. Doing so lowers the numerical value of that tool from 255 to a lower value, which explains why doing that is called lowering the white point. When the histogram does not extend to the right, the white point is higher (not lower) than it otherwise could be.

The issue we're discussing about referring to contrast vs. dynamic range is actually a moot point in the context of this discussion. That's because when adjusting the black and/or white point, the mid-tone contrast is also adjusted at least a little. When you review the adjusted tone curve, you'll notice that at least the middle area of the curve is more vertical than before you adjusted it. The tones that are represented by that part of the curve have more contrast than before you adjusted the curve. (The more vertical a part of the curve is, the greater the contrast in the tones represented by that part of the curve. Conversely, the more horizontal it is, the less contrast in those tones.)

Which would narrow the dynamic range?

Consider an image that has a histogram that does not extend to the left or right side. There will be no true blacks or whites in the initial image. When you raise the black point and lower the white point, the altered image now includes true blacks and whites and perhaps a variety of other luminosity values that were not in the original capture.

The revised dynamic range is perceptually wider than the original image because it includes darker dark tones an brighter bright tones. However, I've been told that, technically speaking, the revised dynamic range is actually narrower. The technical stuff is not my strength so I can't comment nor do I care about that; I only care about how an image appears.

[FootLoose]

Here is the image cropped as you suggested. I don't like it as much because I like the layers of light and dark in the original.

Thanks for trying it out, Terri, but I do agree with you: it looks better with the foreground as per your original post

[terrib]

Thanks Mike for clarifying what you meant. I suspected that is what you wanted to accomplish. But since I rarely use Photoshop (which I think you are referring to in your paragraphs to Christina) it did not make any sense to me. Using Lightroom, I use the Blacks slider to change the black point and if I am moving the tones on the left side of the histogram closer to black, then the slider moves from 0 to a negative number which I would call lowering the black point.

OK, now that is cleared up, here is a revised photo. I mapped the darker tones closer to black and while I was at it mapped the lighter tones closer to white, spreading out the histogram and therefore expanding the tonal range (I don't care what anyone says)

[Otavio]

Really a great set, Terri. The last 3 are remarkable shots. Thanks for sharing. Very nice job!

[Mike Buckley]

That's really terrific, Terri. I predict that you're gonna find yourself making more and more monochrome images.

Sorry about the confusion about the Levels tool. Now that I realize you're using Lightroom, open the Tone Curve panel. Click on the thingy in the bottom left corner of the graph and move it to the right. Now click on the thingy in the top right corner and move it to the left. Doing so is raising the black point and lowering the white point, respectively. Whereas I referred to values of zero to 255, Lightroom displays values in percentages, where 0% is the darkest tone and 100% is the brightest tone.

You can accomplish the same look (probably) whether using the Blacks and Whites sliders that you mentioned located in the Basic panel or using the Tone Curve panel. Regardless of the panel you use to make adjustments, the tone curve by definition of the image is being adjusted. Once you get used to adjusting the tone curve as depicted in the Tone Curve panel, you'll have more control when (if) you decide you need more control.

One of the faults I have with Lightroom is that its display of numeric values pertinent to the tone curve is misleading. As an example, you can move the Blacks slider to the left, which produces a negative number even though the black point is clearly being raised, as demonstrated by the fact that the darkest tones in the image are being mapped to yet darker tones.

The only thing that matters is that you understand what is happening regardless of the tool that you use to make it happen.

[Brownbear]

Hi Terri,

I downloaded your image,took into LR and moved the black and white points both ways as far as I could without clipping.

1. Using the black and white sliders, expands the histogram but I don't see an increased steepness in the curve display.




2. Dragging the top corner of the curve inward (left) (95%), and the bottom corner of the curve inward (right) (5.1%) The line seen in the curves tool display is steeper.





In Lightroom one sees percentage values for the white and black points. In Photoshop one sees numbers. I can't explain it technically but I thought a visual from Lightroom might be helpful.


PS These are so beautiful in monochrome that I never yearned to see them in colour, and now that I have I prefer the B&W.

[Mike Buckley]

1. Using the black and white sliders, expands the histogram but I don't see an increased steepness in the curve display.

Adjusting the sliders has no impact on the display of the Curve tool by design. The only time that display of the Curve tool will change is when the user alters the display. That's true of all software I have used and all software I have seen discussed that I haven't used.

Discussing the image's tone curve as opposed to the graphical display called a Curve tool is, unfortunately, beyond my capability. Until you see a good explanation of the difference (I don't remember ever seeing one), just accept that the image's tone curve and any software's Curve tool are different in the sense that altering the display of the Curve tool will always affect the image's tone curve but using other methods to alter the image's tone curve will never alter the display of the Curve tool.

[bnnrcn]

Revised version looks great

Thanks Mike for clarifying what you meant. I suspected that is what you wanted to accomplish. But since I rarely use Photoshop (which I think you are referring to in your paragraphs to Christina) it did not make any sense to me. Using Lightroom, I use the Blacks slider to change the black point and if I am moving the tones on the left side of the histogram closer to black, then the slider moves from 0 to a negative number which I would call lowering the black point.

OK, now that is cleared up, here is a revised photo. I mapped the darker tones closer to black and while I was at it mapped the lighter tones closer to white, spreading out the histogram and therefore expanding the tonal range (I don't care what anyone says)