What digital cameras have built-in neutral-density filters?

[GeoBonsai]

The Fujifilm X100T has a built-in neutral-density (ND) filter. What other digital cameras have this feature? And, do you think (as I do) that all digital cameras should include built-in ND filters?

I find ND filters to be very handy in bright, sunny locations when I want to open up the aperture for a shallow depth of field. There are lots of other creative uses.

Example image from Fujifilm X100T using the built-in ND Filter feature that otherwise would have been over exposed:

Coyote Hills Regional Park, Fremont, Calif.
Fujifilm X100T > 23mm lens > f/2.8 > 1/850 sec. > ISO 200 > ND Filter turned "on"

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[Manfred M]

This is not at all common in digital cameras; but is very common in higher end video cameras. The Fujifilm camera you mention is the only one I am aware of that has this feature in a still camera (a 3-stop filter; I believe).

Do I think this is a good idea? Well, yes and no.

I am someone who uses ND filters and certainly understand when and why they would be used, but suspect that this is more of a marketing ploy than a particularly useful feature. In normal shooting, I usually go with a 1-stop or 2-stop filter (to get me a more open aperture for shallow DoF). If I am trying to really slow down my shutter speed, I have both a 5-stop and 10-stop filter; so I find a 3-stop one a bit of too much of a trade off. Too much for tweaking my DoF (which is where I use my 1-stop or 2-stop) and not dense enough to smear moving water or moving clouds.

I find that the only time I tend to use a 3-stop filter is when I am shooting with a graduated ND filter and am really trying to hammer the sky really hard (again, mostly I use a 2-stop filter on a grad as well).

As for the example you have posted; most landscape photographers would likely not be shooting in such bright light. Magic hour is the realm of the landscape photographer, and a 3-stop ND would likely be of less use (although as it gets darker, a lower density filter might be enough for smoothing water flow).

In conclusion; kudos for Fujifilm introducing a built-in ND filter; if certainly gives photographers an additional feature to learn about. Had they gone 2-stop; I'd be a lot more enthusiastic.

[xpatUSA]

The filter is in the lens, not the camera body - so any other camera that uses the lens will likely have the same function.

Googling lens "built-in neutral density filter" brings in a few results, a couple of which being:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons100

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ol...review/compare
.

[Manfred M]

The filter is in the lens, not the camera body - so any other camera that uses the lens will likely have the same function.

Googling lens "built-in neutral density filter" brings in a few results, a couple of which being:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons100

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ol...review/compare
.

Ted - I believe this is a fixed (not removable) f/2 23mm lens on an APS-C sensor body.

[Black Pearl]

There are a few higher end compacts that have them but nothing else that comes to mind - no real point when the lens has a filter thread that offers many more options.

[GeoBonsai]

I guess that because I shoot mainly in the San Francisco bay area where it's sunny most days, ND filters are a necessity for shooting water falls, sunsets, beach scenes, shallow-depth-of-field images. Yeah. I need to know why I should purchase Lee $1,000US+ physical glass add-on filters when I totally believe technology has the capability to include ND filtering capabilities directly into digital cameras. I so want this to happen!

[loosecanon]

A movable ND filter built in is another two surfaces in the lightpath that can accumlate deposits and hence sensor spots, though more difficult to clean than the current sensors with fixed filters in front of them.

[Manfred M]

Yeah. I need to know why I should purchase Lee $1,000US+ physical glass add-on filters when I totally believe technology has the capability to include ND filtering capabilities directly into digital cameras. I so want this to happen!

Geri - I understand what you are saying, but suspect that very few people are likely to feel that way. I seem to remember reading that this camera does not have filter threads (is this true?), and if so, spending money on the Lee kit would not necessarily be something I would do given that limitation (and I do have a substantial investment in Lee filters / accessories, so I have no issues at all recommending their gear).

I prefer not paying for a feature I won't use (and that generally covers any mechanical additions to a camera), rather than things that are implemented in software. Like Robin, I prefer to buy what I need.

The main thing is that it is a feature you like, use and are happy with. If I owned that camera, I suspect I would rarely, if ever, use that feature.

[Manfred M]

A movable ND filter built in is another two surfaces in the lightpath that can accumlate deposits and hence sensor spots, though more difficult to clean than the current sensors with fixed filters in front of them.

As I have two video cameras with this feature; I've never run into this type of issue. The filter turret (with four ND filters) is far enough away from the sensor that the impact of any dirt on the filter would have little or no impact on image quality. I've never had to have the filters in either camera cleaned (and one of them does have interchangeable lenses, so this would, in theory, be more problematic).

[GeoBonsai]

Kindly let me repeat: I need to know why I should purchase Lee $1,000US+ physical glass add-on filters when I totally believe technology has the capability to include ND filtering capabilities directly into digital cameras. I so want this to happen!

[Manfred M]

Control, Geri. With the Lee set, I can apply a filter to part of an image (I can fit up to three into the holder simultaneously), although I've never shot with more than two personally.

I could, for instance take the whole scene down a stop or two and then add additional filtration just to the sky. This is not just theory; I've done this in shots. This is a two-fliter shot; one knocked down the overall brightness in the snow and sky and the second one knocked down the brightness in the sky some more. The sky was clipping without the filters at base ISO.



I used the Lee filters for this shot. I was already at base ISO (100) I did not want to shoot too fast as I wanted a touch of softness (motion blur) from the wind hitting the trees (shot at 1/20th) and I did not want to go below f/11 on the shot (sharpness in the stationary parts of the scene).


Do you need to buy a set of Lee's of course not. There are lots of screw in filters from mid-range filter manufacturers (Tiffen, Hoya, etc) that cost no where near $1000. Cokin makes rectangular filters and holders as well if you want to go that route. However, when you are shooting with a $3000 camera using a $2000 lens on a $1200+ tripod / head, you are going to go to a higher end filter too.

[GeoBonsai]

Manfred: Your photo images are exactly what I'm hoping for with my cameras! Your's are awesome images!

I just want to know why camera manufacturers don't include a variety of neutral-density (ND) filter options built right into the camera.

Personally, I don't like graduated filters because I never shoot where the horizon is absolutely straight across ... there's almost always some geographical object protruding upward above the horizon making a problem for the image produced by grads.

[Manfred M]

I just want to know why camera manufacturers don't include a variety of neutral-density (ND) filter options built right into the camera.

Mostly because implementing an in-camera multi-filter solution is expensive and not a feature required by everyone. Cameras are manufactured to hit a price point and to add the filter set can appreciably increase the cost of the unit, with little benefit to the manufacturer. My video cameras, for instance cost a lot more than my still cameras.

The advantage of the Lee type filters when shooting grads is that the filter holder can be rotated to follow the horizon line. When there is not a clean horizon, I use "soft grads", which has a wider transition than a "hard grad". The other trick that I often use is to use a tripod and shoot two identical images; one with and one without the grad. I then blend the images in post-production to remove the areas that I don't want darker.

I used that type of technique in this image.



Shot with 2-stop GND (hard if I remember correctly, to bring out the clouds), positioned near the main roof line. Second shot no filter; blend in Photoshop. You can see how much less dense the clouds are to the right of the building = no GND filter effect there.

[Black Pearl]

Look at it this way...

I might chose a 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 or 10 stop ND filter depending on the conditions, the result I want or simply a whim. Are you seriously saying that every lens made should have every one of these built into them - at a fantastical cost - regardless of the fact that many people shelling out for said lens will never use them. Surely it is far simpler for a photographer who wants to use a filter to invest in a system that will fit every lens they own and be flexible beyond any possible locked in options?

[xpatUSA]

Ted - I believe this is a fixed (not removable) f/2 23mm lens on an APS-C sensor body.

Correct - I had actually "Googled" the camera (knew nothing about it before posting). By "other cameras that uses the lens" I meant another non-ILC which also has that same lens installed by the camera manufacture.

[rpcrowe]

If cameras would/could incorporate an ISO of 25, that would be basically the same as adding a 2-stop ND filter.

However, IMO, this would not sell cameras but being able to shoot at one quadrillion-billion ISO would...

Here's another strange idea... A circular GND filter with the cutoff line at 1/3 or 2/3 of the filter. This would allow photographers to get pretty close to decent framing when using a round, screw-in GND. Easier to carry when you are using other round filters...

[Daisy Mae]

My Ricoh GR Expert 28mm fixed lens street camera has built in ND and it works beautifully.

[xpatUSA]

I just want to know why camera manufacturers don't include a variety of neutral-density (ND) filter options built right into the camera.

Horrible thought!

I don't own any ND filters - my Foveon sensors need all the light they can get

[GeoBonsai]

Are in-camera ND filters provided by physical lens elements or by firmware?

As for camera features nobody would use, I'd rather have built-in ND filters than any of the following common camera features that I never use:
o Video
o High ISO
o Flash
o Wifi
o GPS
o In-camera editing
o Sepia, black & white, and other color modes that can be easily achieved in post
o Red-eye removal

[Manfred M]

Are in-camera ND filters provided by physical lens elements or by firmware?

As for camera features nobody would use, I'd rather have built-in ND filters than any of the following common camera features that I never use:
o Video
o High ISO
o Flash
o Wifi
o GPS
o In-camera editing
o Sepia, black & white, and other color modes that can be easily achieved in post
o Red-eye removal

ND filters are physical optical elements, as is the mechanism to move it in and out of the optical path.

Video, high ISO, in-camera editing, colour modes and red-eye removal can be done in firmware, although red-eye removal is often integrated with the flash function. On occasion I shoot high ISO. There are a lot of people that use DSLRs to shoot video. I have occasionally shot video using my camera, although I prefer using a dedicated video camera. If it's the only video camera I have, I will definitely use it.

WiFi and GPS will be integrated into the camera's circuitry and are fairly inexpensive to implement. I use external WiFi (I use a CamRanger to control my camera remotely and to review images I've take) and GPS module (when I am traveling and it links through Lightroom to Google Maps, so I can easily establish where I took a picture).

Flash is definitely a more costly add-on. I use my built in flash to trigger external off-camera flash (Nikon's Commander mode; that is likely not available on the D3300), but I do have it on both the D90 and D800. Depending on the lens I use, I've used the built-in flash as a fill light.

So, just because these are of no use to you, doesn't mean there is a broader audience for these feature. One of the most common complaints I here from people who shoot higher end Canon cameras is the lack of a built-in flash that can be used to trigger off-camera flash.

Obviously Fujifilm felt the same way about incorporating a ND filter in your camera body. For me, this would not be something I would consider a positive' but on the other hand, I suspect that a X100T would not be high on my list of cameras to buy. A zoom lens would be a "must have" for a camera like that, even though I often shoot prime lenses.