What digital cameras have built-in neutral-density filters?

[Black Pearl]

Are in-camera ND filters provided by physical lens elements or by firmware?

As for camera features nobody would use, I'd rather have built-in ND filters than any of the following common camera features that I never use:
o Video - I use the video function on my DSLR on a regular basis when I'm out with the family, its a great feature.

o High ISO - I use that almost every time I take a camera out and it is one of the major advantages of a digital system over film - I can't conceive of going back on a permanent basis.

o Flash - Extremely useful feature not only for popping a little catchlight in, helping with a quick balance but for triggering external Speedlights when I don't want the hassle of triggers. That and just about every mainstream camera in the last 20 years has had one so its not even a 'thing' to discus.

o Wifi - If I had it I would likely use it but no its not a major selling point for everyone, but it costs essentially nothing to add as even a £20 phone has it.

o GPS - Wish my Pentax had it instead of an addition as I would use the built in star tracking feature more often.

o In-camera editing - Goes together with the Wi-Fi to allow instant sharing, something that is ever more common.

o Sepia, black & white, and other color modes that can be easily achieved in post - Reviewing and even better previewing your shot in mono can help greatly when creating it. If you shoot RAW and like mono images it is a very useful feature.

o Red-eye removal - For people who use a camera for fun it is a great and very simple bit of firmware that you set and ignore, for the extra few lines of code why not have it?

And yes the ND filters are a physical and mechanical addition to the lens.

[DanK]

Kindly let me repeat: I need to know why I should purchase Lee $1,000US+ physical glass add-on filters when I totally believe technology has the capability to include ND filtering capabilities directly into digital cameras. I so want this to happen!

Some ND filters aren't cheap, but some are, and there are certainly cheaper options than $1000. Screw-on filters may not be as flexible as Lees, but they are more flexible than a single DN built into the camera, and you get to choose the densities you want. I usually carry 2-stop filters, and I have one 10-stop for special cases. Marumi and Hoya both make good ND filters that are not too expensive. I have both.

If I had the choice of paying extra to have one built in, I wouldn't buy it. Some of the other features you note aren't of interest to me either, but I would wager that the number of customers interested in, say, GPS is at least two orders of magnitude larger than the number who want a built in ND filter. If that weren't the case, my guess is that the manufacturers would smell money and would provide that feature.

[William W]

The Fujifilm X100T has a built-in neutral-density (ND) filter. What other digital cameras have this feature? And, do you think (as I do) that all digital cameras should include built-in ND filters?

My X100s does. I think the X100 does too.

No I do not think all Digital Cameras need Built-in ND Filters.

The Built-in ND Filter feature, though not often used is very useful in my X100s.

But my X100s is a specialist camera. The X100T is also. There are specific reasons that most people buy such a specialist camera and the Built-in ND Filter is not one that I have noted is often mentioned. But yes I agree that it is useful feature - mainly because if there is ever need for an ND Filter, using the built-in ND Filter is a lot cheaper than buy the threaded filter adapter required as a sperate (and expensive) purchase.

I use my X100s mainly for street work. But occasionally I use it for other type of Photography, simply because it is the camera that now I carry with me most of the time. For the type of street work I do, the Built-in ND Filter has not yet been used.

For the type of Landscape Shot that you posted as an example, if it were planned, I would use a DSLR, and I have a selection of (different attenuation) ND Filters for my DSLR Lenses which provides a much a more flexible arrangement for Landscape Photography.

And further, DSLR lenses come in a variety of FOCAL LENGTHS thereby providing a much greater range of PERSPECTIVES than only having a fixed 23mm lens on the Fuji APS-C Format Camera.

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I find ND filters to be very handy in bright, sunny locations when I want to open up the aperture for a shallow depth of field. There are lots of other creative uses.

I do too, (Shallow DoF in Bright Lighting Scenarios that is).

QUESTION - I haven’t used the ND for other applications though – what are the other creative uses that you have found?


ANSWER - I get it now - I understand your point. It was a general point about using (a range of) ND filters for waterfalls rivers etc etc - I thought you meant specifically about that EV 3 ND Filter - though yes I also see that an EV 3 ND could be useful for a flowing river etc but the scene would probably need to be shaded, or at night . . . etc to get a slow enough shutter speed at a suitable aperture.

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Example image from Fujifilm X100T using the built-in ND Filter feature that otherwise would have been over exposed: Fujifilm X100T > 23mm lens > f/2.8 > 1/850 sec. > ISO 200 > ND Filter turned "on"

Nice shot. It displays the use of the ND filter well.

Minor (relevant) technical point about the ND filter saving the picture from otherwise being overexposed . . .

Could not the shot have done without the EV 3 ND filter and still not been “over exposed”?

QUESTION - Could that shot could have been pulled at: F/2 @ 1/1600s @ ISO100 or F/2 @ 1/3200s @ ISO200 – I ask because I think that the mechanical shutter goes to around 1/4000s on that model?

(NOTE - The Mechanical Shutter is a Leaf Shutter, and on the X100T model is probably limited at the Largest Aperture to a fastest shutter speed of 1/1000s without creating a vignette, just like its predecessors, so maybe it would be just over the limit using 1/1600s Shutter Speed.)

The other part of this question BUT the kicker is - (as I recall) one big selling point of the x100T (I seriously considered selling my x100s and getting a x100T) is the electronic shutter allows a shutter speed of 1/32,000s and which is perfect to use for still Subjects, such as Landscapes.


The point that I am making is: I see the main value of the EV 3 ND Filter is to put the EXPOSURE PARAMETERS into a particular RANGE of choices and not necessarily to save any landscape shot from being overexposed.

If wanting Shallow Depth of Field with an X100T then any particular landscape scene has to be really very bright for it not to be able to be captured using F/2 and ISO 200 with the x100T as that as that camera has a very fast top shutter speeds with its new electronic shutter.

There is a difference in emphasis and that difference I believe is relevant to this conversation - I think that the built in ND Filter (on an x100T) allows for a different range of exposure choices and that's a good feature of it - but it is a continuum of the existing good feature of that series of camera.

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. . .In conclusion; kudos for Fujifilm introducing a built-in ND filter; if certainly gives photographers an additional feature to learn about. Had they gone 2-stop; I'd be a lot more enthusiastic.

I like 3 stops better than 2 stops, for the reasons I outlined – as for me, 3 stops puts the RANGE of exposure parameters in a good place for most outdoor shooting.

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There are a few higher end compacts that have them but nothing else that comes to mind - no real point when the lens has a filter thread that offers many more options.

AND –

. . .I seem to remember reading that this camera does not have filter threads (is this true?),

Robin – I suspect the x100T doesn’t have a filter thread.

Manfred - not sure if you got an answer to that question as I only skim read the thread: the X100s is painful for Filters, one needs to buy an adapter.

I have the adapter for my X100s, because I use the lens hood on the lens mostly all the time.

Getting an ND filter in there is not arduous but it is painful – and one has to carry the little filter around – it is easier just to carry the camera to “menu it” when I (very occasionally) need the ND Filter.

WW

[george013]

Black Pearl says that they are physical additions to the lens. I'm trying to figure out how that works: a physical build-in filter that you can use or not. Can somebody explain that to me or give a link?

George

[Stagecoach]

Black Pearl says that they are physical additions to the lens. I'm trying to figure out how that works: a physical build-in filter that you can use or not. Can somebody explain that to me or give a link?

George

Here's a link but the info is not exactly detailed.

http://www.finepix-x100.com/in/story/lens-2

[george013]

Here's a link but the info is not exactly detailed.

http://www.finepix-x100.com/in/story/lens-2

Thanks. It's also all you get with other search results.

George

[William W]

Note - the first page has a cross-section diagram: http://www.finepix-x100.com/story/

WW

[george013]

Note - the first page has a cross-section diagram: http://www.finepix-x100.com/story/

WW

I still wonder how they can (un)store a flat filter in a round tube.

George

[Manfred M]

I still wonder how they can (un)store a flat filter in a round tube.

George

Looks fairly simple, George. As long as the diameter of the tube is large enough, all that has to happen is that the filter is moved out of the way, just outside of the optical path and then dropped back in when required. If the sketch is roughly to scale, the filter element looks small enough for this to happen.

The sketch appears to be simplified and does not show the mechanism and associated linkages that manipulates the filter in and out of position.

[george013]

Looks fairly simple, George. As long as the diameter of the tube is large enough, all that has to happen is that the filter is moved out of the way, just outside of the optical path and then dropped back in when required. If the sketch is roughly to scale, the filter element looks small enough for this to happen.

The sketch appears to be simplified and does not show the mechanism and associated linkages that manipulates the filter in and out of position.

Looking at the lens I don't see room for that.

George

[Manfred M]

Looking at the lens I don't see room for that.

George

If the image is to scale, I would say there is. There is nothing to prevent the element from rotating as it moves up and out of the way. There seems to be plenty of room, and obviously there is, as this camera is a production model.

[Nicks Pics]

The canon G 15 hs a built in ND filter I believe, perhaps some other compact cameras do, but if you had an interchangeable lens camera I think you would need to buy one separately for your lens. I think it's a useful feature for a compact camera that doesn't have a lens that will accept screw-on filters.

[William W]

. . .obviously there is, [plenty of room to store and allow the drop in drop out ND Filter] as this camera is a production model.

Yes.

I understand having the wonderment of George and wanting to know exactly how the thingy does work, but the fact that "it is" does somewhat address George's Post#24 and also confirm Robin's post #21.

WW

[JuliM]

The Fujifilm X100T has a built-in neutral-density (ND) filter. What other digital cameras have this feature? And, do you think (as I do) that all digital cameras should include built-in ND filters?

I find ND filters to be very handy in bright, sunny locations when I want to open up the aperture for a shallow depth of field. There are lots of other creative uses.

Example image from Fujifilm X100T using the built-in ND Filter feature that otherwise would have been over exposed:

Coyote Hills Regional Park, Fremont, Calif.
Fujifilm X100T > 23mm lens > f/2.8 > 1/850 sec. > ISO 200 > ND Filter turned "on"

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My fuji X100 has ND filter

Also my Olympus XZ-2 has it

And also the camera of my old Nokia N8, from 2010 has one.

This in camera ND filter, 3 stops is a highly valuable tool

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Juli,

Unfortunately this is a two year old thread and GeoBonsai hasn't been here since April 2015, so she'll likely not see this reply.

For the record, my little Canon S100 also has one.

Anyway, welcome (Juli?) to the forums from me, Dave

[Tronhard]

I have a Canon G1X (somewhat) compact camera that incorporates a built-in 3 stop neutral density filter and has a full APS-C sensor. I have not used the camera body a lot and this is the only image I can find as an example of its use with the ND filter ... It was taken in fairly sunny but overcast conditions, so I could not have got a feathering effect on the water without the ND filter.



https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong1x/7