mirrorless v mirror

[TrishBJ]

I'm looking to upgrade from a D7000 to a full-frame camera some time this year. Not sure whether to get a D810 or move to a different system e.g. mirrorless camera such as one of the Sony A7 range. I take a range of different types of photos including landscapes, portraits, plants, animals, birds, sunsets/sunrises, occasional astroimage.......

Good resolution, low light performance, and good dynamic range would be on the wish list for a new camera. Are these all possible in the one camera? Any thoughts on advantages and disadvantages of the Sony A7 compared to the D810? Useability of the Sony? Range of lenses?
Advice is most welcome!

[george013]

I'm looking to upgrade from a D7000 to a full-frame camera some time this year. Not sure whether to get a D810 or move to a different system e.g. mirrorless camera such as one of the Sony A7 range. I take a range of different types of photos including landscapes, portraits, plants, animals, birds, sunsets/sunrises, occasional astroimage.......

Good resolution, low light performance, and good dynamic range would be on the wish list for a new camera. Are these all possible in the one camera? Any thoughts on advantages and disadvantages of the Sony A7 compared to the D810? Useability of the Sony? Range of lenses?
Advice is most welcome!

Shutterdelay. I don't know of it but just wonder.
George

[IzzieK]

I have D810 and I am happier than I can ever be with it.

[John 2]

These days, for the sort of photography most amateurs do, either of the cameras you describe will have more than adequate spec and performance. Personal preference would I think play a bigger part. Go handle the actual cameras and see what you feel most comfortable with. All I would add is that since you are prepared to change system, don't limit yourself to just the two. I'm a Fuji X fan and their crop DX X-Tran sensor, range of lenses and class leading low light performance are generally accepted as giving very near FF performance already with the advantage of being smaller and less to carry. Not perfect by any means but the promised X Pro-2 later this year will have a further improved X-Tran sensor (24 Vs. 16Mpix) and given Fuji's recent track record of ironing out any current performance deficiencies, could be a real contender.

[NorthernFocus]

The barriers to mirrorless for wildlife/action photography continue to be viewfinder and AF performance and availability of long lenses. If the limitations don't bother you then the A7 looks attractive. The D810 is the finest camera currently made IMO. It's big and only does 5fps FF RAW.

Good luck making your decision.

[John 2]

No longer viewfinder performance Dan but I agree, AF is still not up to SLR standards hence my keeping my D7100.

[Shadowman]

I'm looking to upgrade from a D7000 to a full-frame camera some time this year. Not sure whether to get a D810 or move to a different system e.g. mirrorless camera such as one of the Sony A7 range. I take a range of different types of photos including landscapes, portraits, plants, animals, birds, sunsets/sunrises, occasional astroimage.......

Good resolution, low light performance, and good dynamic range would be on the wish list for a new camera. Are these all possible in the one camera? Any thoughts on advantages and disadvantages of the Sony A7 compared to the D810? Useability of the Sony? Range of lenses?
Advice is most welcome!

Do you have any lenses that would work with the D810?

[NorthernFocus]

No longer viewfinder performance...

It's not simply a matter of tech specs. The difference between electronic and optical is still a barrier to change which must be overcome. Likely more difficult for longer term DSLR users. Not likely as big an issue for novices.

[Manfred M]

My experience with a mirrorless is the same as Dan's, but I can't speak to the Sony, as I've never shot one.

1. The electronic viewfinder in my GX7 is quite dim when compared to the pentaprism used in my D90 and D800;

2. The contrast detect autofocus used in the mirrorless design is slower and so far as I can tell, slightly less accurate than the phase detect system used in DSLRs.

3. Smaller bodies found in mirrorless camera means that the designer has less physical space to place the controls on the camera body. The Sony is more in the size range of what your D7000 is, so this may not be as much of an issue for you. On the flip side, the body layout on the D800 is far superior to the D90 just because of the amount of real estate the camera designer has to play with. So, while you can't miss what you don't have, once you get used to the layout of the controls on a larger body, that could have a positive impact on your shooting. I don't have particularly large hands, but find the D800 is about the right size for me.

I spent exactly 2 months shooting a decent, higher end mirrorless (I took just over 12,000 images during that period). I can honestly say, I would have had more keepers and better image quality had I been using either the D90 or D800. Today, when I make a choice of camera when heading out, the D800 almost always wins. The GX7 only comes along when size and weight are the main priority.

The other "soft" side in your consideration would be that as a Nikon shooter, you are already attuned to the Nikon menu system and camera operation (the "feel" for using the camera). Your learning curve on the new camera will be a lot shorter if you stick with something in the same family.

[Shadowman]

I'm looking to upgrade from a D7000 to a full-frame camera some time this year. Not sure whether to get a D810 or move to a different system e.g. mirrorless camera such as one of the Sony A7 range. I take a range of different types of photos including landscapes, portraits, plants, animals, birds, sunsets/sunrises, occasional astroimage.......

Good resolution, low light performance, and good dynamic range would be on the wish list for a new camera. Are these all possible in the one camera? Any thoughts on advantages and disadvantages of the Sony A7 compared to the D810? Useability of the Sony? Range of lenses?
Advice is most welcome!

Trish,

I received the latest issue of Popular Photography and an issue of this magazine was included.

http://briansmith.com/sony-alpha-uni...ine-issue-one/

Interesting comments on the Image Stabilization system.

[John 2]

Dan/Manfred, I hear what you say but have you handled an XT-1?

[Manfred M]

Dan/Manfred, I hear what you say but have you handled an XT-1?

No, I have not (and a lot of other cameras as well). Frankly, other than battery life concerns, there is no technical reason that a EVF should not be as bright as a pentaprism, if not brighter (just boost the gain). It's still a maturing technology and I see no reason as to why mirrorless cameras will not surpass DSLR performance at some point and ultimately will replace them.

An XT-1 is a Fujifilm camera, so it's performance is irrelevant when discussing the FF Nikons vs the Sony A7.


Sony's approach has a lot of merit (discounting the negative impact of using a pellicle mirror approach, i.e. some degree of light loss) as it does not exclude using the faster phase detect focusing mechanism. I'm not a fan of the sensor shift approach for image stabilization for a few technical reasons, but it does work.

Another "strike" against the Sony in the photography I do is that they do not have a native shift-tilt lens (third party only). I did not mention it because it is getting into a fairly specialized field of architecture and (urban) landscape work. I love the Nikkor f/3.5 24mm PC-E lens and am seriously looking at another shift / tilt lens as my next aquisition.

[John 2]

.................... so it's performance is irrelevant when discussing the FF Nikons vs the Sony A7.

I don't think that was the question that was posed Manfred. I merely raise the Fuji as a possible alternative for consideration under the "...such as ..." qualification, given its performance.

[PhotomanJohn]

An XT-1 is a Fujifilm camera, so it's performance is irrelevant when discussing the FF Nikons vs the Sony A7.

As is discussing the performance of a GX7.

[Manfred M]

Yes and no, John.

My (and Dan's) comments reflected our experiences with mirrorless camera, and I can't comment on gear I haven't handled and used (and there's lots of it out there). I handled / tested a number of camera models, but only Panasonic and Olympus models, when I went mirrorless. Going mFT was purely based on the fact that I already owned a couple of decent mFT lenses that I use on my video camera.

Had I started from scratch, the Fujifilm line would have been a possibility too. The reviews on these have been great.

That being said, the question Trish asked is about full frame cameras, and the Fujifilm line does not include any of those. The XT-1 is a APS-C crop frame, so I'm not sure why she would consider one if she already is shooting a Nikon crop frame and has the glass to go with one.

[ajohnw]

I think it would be worth asking what the OP expects to gain upgrading to full frame?

If the best low light performance is really wanted I would suspect that the D810 would not be the best choice. Dynamic range does relate to that in some ways as well.

John
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[Krawuntzel]

I think it would be worth asking what the OP expects to gain upgrading to full frame?

If the best low light performance is really wanted I would suspect that the D810 would not be the best choice. Dynamic range does relate to that in some ways as well.

John
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I would like not to go here to the "my brand is the only best brand" discussion, as to my subcutaneous reading of the answers is suggesting.
Trish: Unless you take the camera in your hands, you can not really decide. To change the system can get very expensive. And: no to your question, no camera will cover all your "needs"; you have to prioritze your wishes.

Erwin

[IzzieK]

I would like not to go here to the "my brand is the only best brand" discussion, as to my subcutaneous reading of the answers is suggesting.
Trish: Unless you take the camera in your hands, you can not really decide. To change the system can get very expensive. And: no to your question, no camera will cover all your "needs"; you have to prioritze your wishes.

Erwin

I agree...very wise advice...but on the other hand, if she can afford a FF, then why not? Try it with your hands first, Trish...I had a D800e and it nearly killed my wrist and I am right handed. You'll never know how much you needed that dominant hand until you hurt it...But the D810 is the same size and also the same size as the D300s and it is a great camera. I cover the initials FF and the model D810 with a black electric tape and if it is in your bag and you are travelling it is not recognizable as an FF camera from the TSA scanner.

[NorthernFocus]

Trish, since you're new to the forum you'll have to excuse us. As a group we find it hard to give a simple direct answer to questions without waxing philosophical on each of our individual pet peeves. And to try to convince the requestor of the error of their ways and to go in an entirely different direction than they are headed. But we can't help ourselves. That's just who we are If you can separate the chaff from the grain there is good information sprinkled throughout. Differing needs from photography require differences in perspective which lead do differences of opinion. That's life.

You asked specifically about differences in the A7/D810. The AF and viewfinder issue has already been discussed. As has the fact that lens availability is still somewhat limited for the Sony but mostly on the long end. There are technical differences that can affect image quality which may or may not be meaningful to you depending on how you use the images etc. For example Sony uses compression algorithms to create their 11 bit RAW files while Nikon uses uncompressed 14 bit files. You can go to this review and skip down to the section on performance to understand the differences. In the review the comparison is A7 vs D800E but most of what's said will apply to the D810. Only you can decide whether the technical issues are meaningful to you or not.

[dje]

Hi Trish

I went through a similar exercise to you some months ago and ended up buying a D610. I would have gone for the D810 but couldn't justify the expense and was not entirely comfortable about it's size for travel use. I did consider the Sony A7 and A7R but in the end I decided to stick with a DSLR because of autofocus capability and lens availability. You can get adaptors that allow the use of non-Sony lenses on the A7's (in fact in the early days they were throwing one in as a special deal) but somehow the idea of buying an expensive new camera and having to use adaptors just didn't sit well with me.

In terms of sensor performance, according to DXOMark tests, the D610, D810, A7 and A7R all have very similar dynamic range and low light performance. The D810 and the A7R are clear winners of course when it comes to ultimate sharpness, with their 36MP sensor and no AA filter.

As others have suggested, try them out and look at the reputable online review sites. Good luck, I think you'll enjoy the move to FF, I certainly have.

Dave