Orchid, Take 2...HELP???

[IzzieK]

I am not into flower photography but I cannot seem to get the focus at the center of this flower...I shot this in my studio. I tried to put the focus on the white-ish bump in the middle but the curl at the bottom just did not photograph as well either. I took 8 shots, 2 continuous light, 2 sorts of background, white and this black one. I like this black one better for the background and I can see all the imperfections of my shot...And oh, I shoot with my remote control too...



Can someone here tell what else I was doing wrong? This is a one-shot deal, the colour of the petal is a little bit greenish than this one, I do not know why my software showed it a bit more yellow...

Please teach me how to photograph this kind of flower...William??? anyone??? Please....

[AlwaysOnAuto]

When I've tried shooting the same type of orchid I get my best results by stopping the lens way down and using a tripod.
The problem is your DOF is too shallow so the parts you want to focus on aren't focused. What f-stop is this taken with?

[AlwaysOnAuto]

D7000 Micro Nikkor 55mm f3.5 at f16, 1/200sec, ISO 2000, all natural lighting.

[bnnrcn]

Hi Isabel. If you could add the exif data of your shot, members might be more helpful

[DonnaK]

Izzie, I agree that we need to see the exif on this shot. Your DOF is way too shallow. Orchids need to have greater depth to see their real beauty. It's a very pretty orchid and we need to see more of it

Here's one that I shot at 1/160 sec; f/14; ISO 320 I also used a flash because this orchid was inside a conservatory.

[DanK]

as others have said, the problem is DOF. Stopping down will work if the flower is not too deep, or if you want only part of the flower in focus. Remember also that the effective f/stop increases when you get close to minimum working distance. This is explained in the tutorial on this site. With my Canon cameras, the camera reports the physical f/stop, but if you shoot Nikon, it may report the effective f/stop. This only matters in that if you stop down too much, you will begin to soften the image.

If you want to get seriously into this type of photography, and you want flowers sharp front to back, the answer is focus stacking. I stack virtually 100% of my flower macros, with stacks ranging from 3 to 20+ images. If you shoot with a moderate nominal aperture, each slice will have very narrow DOF, and you can control which parts are in focus and which not by picking the images to stack. For example, in this one, I wanted the petals in the back to be OOF but all the rest to be crisply in focus.

[Barbara Ponder]

Oh Izzie what a beautiful flower! Sorry I can't offer any advice on how to better the shot. I hope you do cause it will be lovely!

[wilgk]

I'm like Barbara, having no advice for you, as I've not tried this either, so dropping in to say good luck.
I read the replies through from those with experience & they should help, stick with it, as the results will be there, once you master the technical from the help here I'm sure.

[chauncey]

First off, I would fold that top petal forward...gently pull on the edges while pushing the center inwards.
Your exposure is fine and lighting is ok for the first time.

You only have a couple spots in focus, something's amiss...shallow DOF, as has been said.
Most of us will focus stack those things. You can do it by very delicately twisting your focusing ring
over and over and over until completely encompassing your entire subject depth.

It looks fine...just not stacked. They are not a flower that lends itself to shallow DOF.

[Stagecoach]

Hi Izzie,

Some advice already given but I think we need to look at the fundamentals first in order to be most helpful for you.

Firstly, I will make the assumption that you are using the tripod in your studio, if not you are wasting your time

You need to understand that the DoF is going to be 'limited' and you are not going to be able to get the entire depth of the flower in focus. Knowing this you need to decide what aperture is going to give you the the 'best' you can get (lets ignore diffraction for now) and I would suggest you start with f/18. (This can be further discussed if we know what lens you are using).

You now need to appreciate that the depth of 'best' focus is going to be 1/2 in front and 1/2 behind the surface part of the flower you focus your lens on.

Knowing the above you now need to look at your flower and decide what you want to be most in focus

You say that you 'tried' to put the focus on the white-ish bump in the middle but do not say how. It is extremely unlikely that you would be able to use 'auto focus' on this shot because anywhere you place the 'focus point' box within it there will be both near and farther edges/surfaces, it will be confused and you will not know exactly what it has chosen to focus the lens on. For this reason you should use manual focus and adjust to get the the part you want sharpest. If your eyesight is reasonable there is absolutely no need to use Live view in my opinion.

Until such time as you are fully confident at getting focus exactly where you want it in these 'studio' conditions you should not be worrying about lighting and certainly not considering stacking.

So, to simplify, practice getting your focus as you want it and also seeing the affect of using apertures between lets say f/8 to f/25 until you are fully confident.

Once that is mastered, lighting comes next.

Grahame

[FootLoose]

Nice colours, Izzie.

You can download a Depth of Field calculator to your mobile phone, and then physically measure the distance from the front tip to the back petal to get an idea of what your settings need to be.

[Barbara Ponder]

I am loving the advice you are getting Izzie. Bluebonnet season is upon us here in Texas and i would love to get some great pictures. I might even have to post some I took last year and see what advice I can get to improve! Keep with it, I know you will will get an amazing shot!

[jcuknz]

I think your editor is deleting the useful parts of EXIF info for us to comment so that would be something I would investigate before posting photos for help. Obviously you do not have the depth of field required for the subject but I also wonder, and it was my first thought, that one of the colours is blowing out of the histogram and causing it to look soft ... but I think it is simply a lack of DoF and if you cannot get a small aperture with the set-up you used then bring the flash closer remembering the inverse square rule that half the distance* gives you two stops to close down. [ *light to subject distance .. where the camera is does not affect the exposure ]

[Stagecoach]

Hi again Izzie,

Some more info regarding DoF that will be helpful to you when shooting flowers such as your orchid in the studio.

Alan and Donna have both posted images of orchids and we also have yours but what we do not know about any of them is at what distance the camera (sensor plane) was from the point of focus. This subject distance, aperture and FL used will determine the DoF that is achieved. What is also unknown is if any of these images have been cropped in post.

Taking your image in post 1 if you had moved the camera farther from the subject, (so that it was smaller within the frame) and using the same aperture the DoF would have increased. You could then 'crop' the image in post to the same framing as shown in post 1. This can be used to assist in producing a final image that has a greater depth of focus of the flower but of course there is a trade off in image quality of which both the camera used and use/size of the image will have a bearing.

I'm not suggesting this is something you 'should' do but rather to be aware of as an option or when viewing images in that it may be why they appear to have a really good DoF at a particular aperture setting.

Grahame

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Grahame, my shot is not cropped and it was @6"-7" sensor distance. I didn't have my extension tube at the time I don't believe.

[DonnaK]

Hi again Izzie,

Alan and Donna have both posted images of orchids and we also have yours but what we do not know about any of them is at what distance the camera (sensor plane) was from the point of focus. This subject distance, aperture and FL used will determine the DoF that is achieved. What is also unknown is if any of these images have been cropped in post.
Grahame

Grahame, mine was not cropped either. It was reduced for posting. My camera was about 10-12 inches from the orchid. I took several shots while changing settings to get the DoF that I wanted. I never get it on the first try

[DanK]

although I am the one who brought up stacking, I have to agree with Grahame that I was putting the cart in front of the horse, skipping over essential steps in between. I agree that learning to achieve close focus is step #1. In that light, a few suggestions:

Almost all of my macros involve focusing by one of two methods: manually focusing with the lens, or moving the camera. I primarily use the latter for bugs, who are rarely kind enough to wait while I set up a tripod. The technique entails getting approximate focus and then moving slightly either in or out (for some reason, I find out harder) until the particular part of the image you want in clearest focus (typically the eyes in the case of bugs) comes into focus. A monopod makes this much easier if you are as clumsy as I am. I miss much of the time, so I will typically do a bunch of these. This works with flowers too, of course, but in most cases, you can use a tripod with flowers.

For tripod-based work, I usually focus with live view. I don't know how Nikons work, but Canon cameras allow you to magnify the live view by 5x and 10x, and you can move the area that will be the center when you magnify. I put that area over the part of the image that has to be in precise focus and magnify at least to 5x.

Re the suggestion of using a small aperture to start, until you get to the point of stacking: I also agree with that. Yes, you will get a bit of diffraction, but the image overall will appear crisper anyway because of the greater DOF. I'll post below a shot I took when I was first starting with flower macros, about 6 years ago. I took it with very simple equipment: A Rebel XTi (much less capable than today's Rebels), an EF-S 60mm macro lens (a very good lens, and good for flowers on a crop camera), and ambient light from a window. I shot it at f/20 nominal, so considerably higher than that in effective f/stop. It's sharp enough that it looked just fine printed 8 x 10 (A4).

Izzie, I don't think you would have any need for an extension tube for that image. In general, if you don't need one, don't put one on. It will only make things harder. I never leave one on when doing flowers indoors. I do leave one on when chasing bugs because a 100mm lens + 36 mm extension is my default magnification for bugs.

[Mike Buckley]

To add to the other comments, you will know before you release the shutter which parts of the subject will be in focus if you use Live View while displaying the image in the largest magnification. When it's not possible to get everything in focus, ensure that the absolutely most important part is in focus. When that hasn't happened, manually change the focus while using the magnified Live View display so that part indeed becomes in focus.

Then view the nearest and farthest part of the subject to determine whether both are in focus. If they are, every part of the subject will be in focus. However, it may not be possible to get everything in focus even when using the smallest aperture. If having everything in focus is important, move the subject farther away until everything is in focus or use focus-stacking procedures.

[IzzieK]

After a longish write up, I lost my message... so I am starting again....here goes...

Dang! I forgot what I said a while ago!!!!! Anyway I will continue from where I left off...SD (Sugar Daddy) asked me to go out with him to Lowes yesterday and I was so happy to be out and about and went to inspect the Spring plants and saw this discount shelf. I picked up two pots of $12.99 orchids for $2. When SD and I met, he immediately asked what I am going to do with those orchids...it looks almost dead, can I revive it...and so on and on...I looked at him sharply and said "wanna bet?" He paid for it. Took it home, repot it and so here it is the first $2 pot...



and the edit from yesterday's...



Please do not think that I did not read all the comments and critiques here in this post. I did...when there were only three of them and since then I have been working on my aperture, Alan...That was a good advice and took it to heart. I was on Take 2 yesterday but I was having trouble accessing CiC so I continued on taking one advice after another here.

Binnur and Donna, there was no data because I made a mistake of saving it for the web...I have the image here now after doing Take 5 this morning and it will have all the data.

Dan...I do not want to get into serious flower photography, just dabble in it, but the many uploads of orchid shots here might soften me a bit and go into flower photography with macro capability and also stacking after I get another macro tubes and another 50mm with macro (I saw yesterday that Sigma has it for $299). I lost two lenses when I went to Oz recently...right here in the US at customs!! I tried stacking for a while late last year but I can't get it yet...I will try again...

What I am currently doing is that instead of participating in Project 52, I just submit images that I took for the week...similar to being with Project 52 but without the title on my subject line.

Thank you all for viewing and commenting. I do really appreciate all the help I am getting from all of you.

[IzzieK]

I'm like Barbara, having no advice for you, as I've not tried this either, so dropping in to say good luck.
I read the replies through from those with experience & they should help, stick with it, as the results will be there, once you master the technical from the help here I'm sure.

Dear Barbara and Kay...thank you for both your comments anyway...we can all learn together from this post of mine and you can tackle yours like as if the advice given here are yours too...I am willing to share... I know you will not denied me learning from your posts too..

Barbara when hubby give me his noddies to purchase that 150-500mm I will take all the advice you (and others) can give me on bird photography too...at the moment it is still in the midst of another sales pitch, ya know...the print of how much an equivalent is on a Nikon and the write up on the Sigma...so nothing concrete...yet. But I know I will get it -- either by prayer OR persuasion...

In the meantime, I will learn flowers first...