free nef dng converter

[petercfischer]

we are nikon users [dx gear + Capture software]but have come up against a wall. recently installed Lighthouse 5.7 which does read + will nef format files it doesn't recognize edits done in the nikon software [NXD; NXC; NXV] - only the original camera downloaded iteration. nikon cannot edit dng format files. tiff format can be read by both of course but RAW manipulation power is sacrificed. after many fruitless hours have been unable to find a converter [free or otherwise] which runs on Windows 7. we have hundreds of gb of photos we need the benefit each of these programs offers in the editing process. the option of converting all the files to dng + saving copies of the same files is storage prohibitive [among all the other complications]. since we are not going to invest in the photo shop eco support system is there a simple solution: are we missing something obvious? or are we chasing the holy grail with the same chances of success? thank you for any workable/suitable solutions you might suggest

[D L]

Peter, I presume you mean Lightroom 5.7?

I don't think you can edit a raw file in one program, then retain those edits in another software, but still edit it as a raw file.
If the file is raw .nef then the edits applied are effectively retained within the software in which they were made. This is the nature of "non-destructive" editing. The edits are only retained in the file if you export to a graphics file like tiff or jpeg. As you say, you lose the benefits of raw manipulation at this point.

Ultimately, you need to choose which software you want to use going forward. I think most would suggest Lightroom is the best choice. You gain a lot of functionality in both photo management and photo editing with this software over Capture NX-D. There is an abundance of support out there for Lightroom, online and in book form, some of it free.

I would retain Capture NX-D in order to retain the edits of your historical raw files to this point. The software itself doesn't cost you a lot of hard disk space, I imagine. If you want to edit any of these files in lightroom, you will be starting from scratch, but at least you have a benchmark to refer to. Most of the preliminary edits you would have applied in NX-D can be repeated in Lightroom very quickly e.g. exposure and white balance.

Of course, if you change your mind on Lightroom, you'll be faced with a similar problem in the future. You don't really hear of anyone complaining about or ditching Lightroom, so hopefully this won't happen

[Krawuntzel]

Not being too shure what you are looking for, I think, you look for a "jack of all trades device" (what we call in german a "eierlegende Wollmilchsau", literally traduction: a sow (flesh) yielding at the same time eggs, wool and milk).
Not being a nikonist, I have no idea what formats capture software can save.
I think you will have to adjust your workflow. And I do not understand why file storage is nowadays a problem.
Erwin

[Shadowman]

Peter,

It looks like you've got too many things going on at the same time. If you've edited a file with nikon software and want to process it further in LR, then save the file as a TIFF. The RAW conversion will have already occurred with the Nikon software. If you've only converted with Nikon software and not applied any edits then you are only making more work for yourself. Nikon software shouldn't have to edit DNG files because it can read and edit the NEF files directly from the camera. If the Nikon software RAW conversion/edit process isn't to your liking, then you can consider using LR straight from the camera transfer.

I believe the free Nikon converter software was ViewNX2 and it ships with the purchase of your camera.

[Mike Buckley]

I think your solution depends on whether you want to regularly make changes to previous edited NEFs. If you want to do so, I wonder (but don't know) if your best solution is to save whatever NEF you want to re-edit to a TIFF. You presumably won't be re-editing a huge number of files, so storage space shouldn't be a concern. If, like me, you plan to re-edit very few photos, you could plan to re-edit them by starting over from scratch using whatever RAW converter you have chosen.

[Manfred M]

Like the others, I assume that you mean Lightroom rather than Lighthouse (which seems to be a screen saver tool).

Both Lightroom and the various Nikon products from View through Capture in all their past and current iterations are RAW converters. There are others that DxO Labs, Phase One, Corel, etc. put out and I believe there are some freeware ones out there as well.

The one thing they all have in common is to convert Camera RAW data into some other format (jpeg, TIFF, DNG, PSD) for either further processing (to programs like Adobe Photoshop, Corel Paintshop Pro, GIMP) or output. There is no mechanism to interchange "edits" between these programs as they all input RAW and output something else.

If you use one of these, a more appropriate workflow would be to stay with this software from RAW conversion to output. I can't for the life of me understand why you would consider flipping between different ones (just as an aside I personally use four (five if you count Adobe Camera RAW as a separate product)of these products, but in the end, I output to either TIFF or PSD for finishing in Photoshop).

[petercfischer]

ya, long experience with proprietary software from vendors in many different venues over the past 30 + years really hasn't changed much. was so hoping this was not to be the case here too as it requires totally different workflow considerations. am afraid we gave the wrong impression if you were lead to believe the majority of the 30k pic were edited with NX-D. you are likely aware this is a relatively new addition to the nikon software stable. if fact the bulk of the work has been done within NX2 X Capture [iterations after iteration, version after version]. we still experience many of the same frustrations some years + many '2.x' faltering steps down the road. one of the likely reasons people have not left lightroom in droves is the fact they are stuck in the adobe eco system [dng file format] which imprisons them as securely as .nef does nikon users. we are paying for the past decisions taken to invest in software designed to optimize the hardware partnered with it...unfortunately while they are consummate camera manufacturers nikon's ability to exhibit the same prowess in software definitely fails. it's just we are now embarking on the learning curve with lightroom so were hoping to maximize past efforts, which proves how little we learn from experience. there is no realistic reason to believe any firm will put the user before their targeted self interest of profit maximization, therefore rather than lower the bar provide more flexibility + so optimize user functionality development is skewed towards ever better monetizing efforts in the corporate interest. this is not news, rather the sad face of reality - unfortunately it means thousands of hours of extra work. ach well, the wheel turns...

[Manfred M]

Peter - it's called "digital rot", so while in theory our files that are digital can be safely archived for much longer than negatives or prints, in fact their life can be much shorter. As file formats change and are no longer supported, old digital records can no longer be read and in practice, life of these formats is often far shorter than the physical ones.

A great example is digital video tape; all those tapes (VHS and Beta) are great, but players are no longer being manufactured. Having the data is great, but not being able to retrieve it, makes the medium pretty well useless.

Big companies, whether they turn out software or cameras, look out after themselves.

[Mike Buckley]

unfortunately it means thousands of hours of extra work.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm a long-term Nikon Capture NX user and when the day comes that I feel compelled to use a different RAW converter, the only extra work that will be required will be learning to master whatever RAW converter I migrate to.

You will probably get more helpful responses if you show the courtesy of either explaining that a physical challenge makes it impractical to begin sentences with upper-case letters and impractical to organize posts into paragraphs or to use those upper-case letters and paragraphs. The lack of them makes your posts very difficult to read.

[petercfischer]

well mike, just don't like to use caps when doing this type of informal typing, no offense intended. perhaps we should help the general audience [since this can't be news to you] a bit in terms of the CaptureNX2.x + software features...the software is not what we understand as a 'generic converter' of which there are quite a few resident on the computers here on this box. what made the nikon software so distinct when we reviewed it years ago was its ability to download from the camera [using either the 'viewer' (truly closer to a generic converter) or the editor itself], go thru the editing process in a totally non destructive manner [you can of course choose to bake in changes @ anytime but always revert to the original]...then save the outcome as a .nef file if so chosen. this is a raw file produced by the software with the camera collected input as the base upon which all the edits have been made. (read lightroom catalog) this means it is code, so therefore another program capable of reading the code could translate this code to another program [convert it don't you see] the great thing about Capture is you can use this file, with all the accumulated changes in any other program which reads nef files + continue on editing, most often still 'seeing' the nef file output [from the software] process' accumulated changes when baked into an output file. there is always the option to save in jpeg/tiff but when this step is taken this edit too is 'baked in' to the particular output. perhaps what most of the forum commenting here may not realize is the nikon Capture editing program outputs .nef [as in raw] files, in fact these files can be loaded up to the nikon on line 'imagetown' site [similar to a flickr display site] in nef, jpeg, tiff formats for anyone to veiw. a limitation of the nx-d software [the newer program edition to the line] is it more resembles a conventional run of the mill converter in it cannot output .nef but is limited to tiff or jpeg formats. as mentioned in another reply, there was an unrealistic hope on our part someone somewhere had written a program which could take the nef code file+ convert it to a dng code + then back again on demand. dng is really just another proprietary type of raw file [which is not even readable across all of adobe's own products when edited with certain iterations; similarly issue to nikon nx-d file edits [stored in parameter 'sidecars'] are not recognized by nikon nx capture [though this is not true in the converse...nx-d accepts nx-c files + reads them well as a camera originated file. am sure this isn't news to you, though we really added it for the edification of the general forum reader who might not have your product experience. we were just hoping, ya' should never stop hoping...

[petercfischer]

sad sad sad, but ain't it the truth...

[dje]

Hi Peter

I don't have a solution to your problem (other than to move to Utopia) but I just wanted to clarify the dng file situation. When editing a raw file in LR or ACR, the raw file is not converted to dng format (unless you ask for that to happen). The editing information is stored in a sidecar file or in the LR database. The original raw file is left intact. It is still the case of course that the format of this editing recipe can't be used by the Nikon software - and why should it be ? This would require both pieces of software to recognize the same instructions for every possible edit adjustment.

Dave

[xpatUSA]

Hi Peter

I don't have a solution to your problem (other than to move to Utopia) but I just wanted to clarify the dng file situation. When editing a raw file in LR or ACR, the raw file is not converted to dng format (unless you ask for that to happen). The editing information is stored in a sidecar file or in the LR database. The original raw file is left intact.
Dave

Well said, Dave. I was getting puzzled by all this talk of editing NEF files as if the RAW file's image data itself was being edited. Your clarification is quite timely

[D L]

Peter, I didn't understand from your initial post you've been using Capture NX2. I now understand your edits may be more involved than the edits available in NX-D. I don't have any better ideas for you though.

[revi]

Hi Peter

I don't have a solution to your problem (other than to move to Utopia) but I just wanted to clarify the dng file situation. When editing a raw file in LR or ACR, the raw file is not converted to dng format (unless you ask for that to happen). The editing information is stored in a sidecar file or in the LR database. The original raw file is left intact. It is still the case of course that the format of this editing recipe can't be used by the Nikon software - and why should it be ? This would require both pieces of software to recognize the same instructions for every possible edit adjustment.

Dave

Not only would it require each program to recognise the instructions, it would also mean they had to apply the same algorithms with the same 'hidden parameters' (e.g. midtone adjustments: define 'midtones'). And for many adjustments, there are several algorithms to choose from (sharpening, demosaicing, etc). So getting all programs to read and apply instructions from all other programs would be almost impossible even with open source.

And I don't want all programs to use the same algorithms, or the programmers spend their time running after what the others had come up with. I'd prefer have them work on improving their product. And I like having a choice, so I can pick the one (or ones!) best suited to my circumstances. For instance, I use Darktable for normal RAW conversion, but keep dcraw around for its special tricks (non-demosaiced output, fast extraction of embedded preview, and such).

[george013]

well mike, just don't like to use caps when doing this type of informal typing, no offense intended. perhaps we should help the general audience [since this can't be news to you] a bit in terms of the CaptureNX2.x + software features...the software is not what we understand as a 'generic converter' of which there are quite a few resident on the computers here on this box. what made the nikon software so distinct when we reviewed it years ago was its ability to download from the camera [using either the 'viewer' (truly closer to a generic converter) or the editor itself], go thru the editing process in a totally non destructive manner [you can of course choose to bake in changes @ anytime but always revert to the original]...then save the outcome as a .nef file if so chosen. this is a raw file produced by the software with the camera collected input as the base upon which all the edits have been made. (read lightroom catalog) this means it is code, so therefore another program capable of reading the code could translate this code to another program [convert it don't you see] the great thing about Capture is you can use this file, with all the accumulated changes in any other program which reads nef files + continue on editing, most often still 'seeing' the nef file output [from the software] process' accumulated changes when baked into an output file. there is always the option to save in jpeg/tiff but when this step is taken this edit too is 'baked in' to the particular output. perhaps what most of the forum commenting here may not realize is the nikon Capture editing program outputs .nef [as in raw] files, in fact these files can be loaded up to the nikon on line 'imagetown' site [similar to a flickr display site] in nef, jpeg, tiff formats for anyone to veiw. a limitation of the nx-d software [the newer program edition to the line] is it more resembles a conventional run of the mill converter in it cannot output .nef but is limited to tiff or jpeg formats. as mentioned in another reply, there was an unrealistic hope on our part someone somewhere had written a program which could take the nef code file+ convert it to a dng code + then back again on demand. dng is really just another proprietary type of raw file [which is not even readable across all of adobe's own products when edited with certain iterations; similarly issue to nikon nx-d file edits [stored in parameter 'sidecars'] are not recognized by nikon nx capture [though this is not true in the converse...nx-d accepts nx-c files + reads them well as a camera originated file. am sure this isn't news to you, though we really added it for the edification of the general forum reader who might not have your product experience. we were just hoping, ya' should never stop hoping...

I've trouble reading this to. What I think is that you've a kind of misunderstanding what Capture NX2 is doing. If you think you can open the edited RAW-file in another program, which you can not, than what's the problem? Use that program to convert to DNG or whatever else.
George

[dje]

Not only would it require each program to recognise the instructions, it would also mean they had to apply the same algorithms with the same 'hidden parameters' (e.g. midtone adjustments: define 'midtones'). And for many adjustments, there are several algorithms to choose from (sharpening, demosaicing, etc). So getting all programs to read and apply instructions from all other programs would be almost impossible even with open source.

And I don't want all programs to use the same algorithms, or the programmers spend their time running after what the others had come up with. I'd prefer have them work on improving their product. And I like having a choice, so I can pick the one (or ones!) best suited to my circumstances. For instance, I use Darktable for normal RAW conversion, but keep dcraw around for its special tricks (non-demosaiced output, fast extraction of embedded preview, and such).

Exactly !!

[xpatUSA]

well mike, just don't like to use caps when doing this type of informal typing, no offense intended.

tosaveevenmoretimeandeffortpeteryoucouldalsoleaveo utallthepunctuationespeciallythosepeskyspacesfulls topscommasandparentheses

[petercfischer]

well ya'll never know, everything's sooo different in texas...which only add the unfamiliar to us non americans...oh no another faux pas

[revi]

You can write however you want, I can (refuse to) read whichever posts I chose, so everyone is happy. But unread posts won't get replies.

Please remember that not everyone here has English as a first language. And any deviation from standard practice makes it even harder to understand a foreign language.