The power, grace, and determination of an Equestrian C&C welcomed

[William W]

Some questions and considerations, in no order of priority:

This is full frame.

I don’t understand “Full Frame”. The image is not 3:4 Aspect Ratio, so it must have been cropped, on the short side from the ‘Full Frame” file: ‘as shot’?

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ISO 1000; 1/800s; F4; 200mm

Good choice of Shutter Speed. Good choice of Focal Length: especially for a Front-on Shot, you need the compression (read more below).

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my goal was to get a dramatic shot which displays how I see them [“The power, grace, and determination of an Equestrian”].
I wanted the only light on them to be the light coming from the very large windows on picture left.
I was not allowed in the ring, so this really limited my position, angles, etc.

Good choice to light them that way for the goal that you set for yourself.

Good choice to shoot square on to realize your goal, but also realize that you having made that choice to shoot head on, usually the Subject has to be very strong to acquire hard side light and the front on pose. She is very strong. But so is the Horse. Even though the Horse is subordinate to the rider in position, the Horse occupies a large area of the Image Real Estate. I do agree with the comments that the Horse is stronger in the particular image, as it is presented.

You will probably find that if the Subject (and the Horse) were about ⅛ Profile (in this case toward Camera Right so that the Window Light runs along the length of the Horse), you will better be able to use the sunlit side of the horse to lead into the Subject, rather than have the Horse’s (well defined and well muscled) Forequarters acting as a barrier to the Subject.

The Camera Elevation slightly emphasises the Horse’s dominance. It’s understood that a step-ladder would have been impractical, but a Technique (not always a successful technique) that you might consider to try next time to get the camera higher is to shoot ‘Hail Mary – Doorstop Style’.

If you ever chose this option, then also choose to shoot a little bit wider, around 100mm for that Shooting Distance should be manageable for a novice; also if you do use this technique, stick a finger over the viewfinder if you are using an Automatic Camera Mode, but for “Hail Mary” it is best to use Manual Camera Mode if you can; and this is also one technique where pulling several shots (scatter gun mode) is a good idea.

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However, I do think that the shot that you have made can come closer to better realizing your goals.

I wonder where the edges on the short side went? I think that you need them. The very skinny vertical cropping emphasises the strength of the Horse, over the Rider.

I think that the squarer the Framing and the Tighter the HORSE is cropped, (to remove as much of the Forequarter area as possible) the more equal that the Rider and the Horse will become in their juxtaposition to each other.

So I would crop the Horse: the Horse’s expression on its face is strong enough to stand alone and on that merit of strength which it exhibits.

I also agree that the background to black would make more drama and that would emphasise the expression on the Rider’s face, and the emotion of ‘determination’: interpreted that she is exiting from ‘darkness’ (the beginning) into ‘control’ (of the event which is upcoming).

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Kim, does this (ROUGH ONLY) redo represent some/many if the goals that you had as your Vision for this shoot?




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Presently I am involved in a long (mostly philosophical) conversation about Titles (for all works of Art, including Photographs): One of the points which I’m arguing, is that the Photograph (Art Work) needs to stand alone and to be critiqued and judged alone, without Title, because ‘A Title’ can and will initially bias the viewer

In so far as taking this image and measuring it against the argument of letting it stand alone and for it not to have a Title, I think that this image portrays a definitive story that is certainly obviously premised in attributes of ‘power’ and also ‘determination’.

In this respect, noting that Kim set about this task to achieve a clearly defined goal, the image is an example that the particular genre of Candid Portrait Photography certainly warrants that the Photographer has and executes an agenda and formulates a plan for the execution of that agenda.

Having an agenda and also the plan to execute it, results in this quality of work which is obviously far superior work generally and also contains a greater depth and meaning than either of Kim’s previous images: “Little Girl” and “Sheep Girl”.

In these respects: Excellent work and excellent progress. This is certainly a P.B. Now get back in and improve on it.

Brava.

WW

[KimC]

Thank you for your clarification, explanation and example Manfred. Another helpful thread...

Kim - compositionally you three choices.

1. The rider is the subject and the horse is the "prop";

2. The horse and rider are the subject; and

3. The horse is the subject and the rider is the prop.

In your image, you took the third path; you've effectively made the image about the horse and the rider is almost superfluous, even though your stated aim was that the image was about the rider and the horse.

To get a shot of the "unit", you need to get the rider to stand out from the background (hint, the direction she is looking and the way her helmet blends into the background are your main problems). Visually, you have to give the rider more prominence (regardless of what the rider's feelings are about her looks / age). A brighter rider leaning forward and looking into the camera would help for sure.

[Manfred M]

Thank you for your clarification, explanation and example Manfred. Another helpful thread...

And you'll notice Bill's edit has done just that; less horse and a darker background bring the rider and horse into better balance. A bit of a different head position on the rider's part and you have an excellent shot.

[KimC]

Thanks for catching that Bill -- I owe everyone an apology -- it's not full frame. I need to be careful of that as it looked like it wasn't cropped in the small thumbnail in my PP application. Cropped close to same amount from the top and right side, and a small crop on the left.

Some questions and considerations, in no order of priority:

I don’t understand “Full Frame”. The image is not 3:4 Aspect Ratio, so it must have been cropped, on the short side from the ‘Full Frame” file: ‘as shot’? WW

Thank you for the additional information about why the horse is more prominent.

Good choice to shoot square on to realize your goal, but also realize that you having made that choice to shoot head on, usually the Subject has to be very strong to acquire hard side light and the front on pose. She is very strong. But so is the Horse. Even though the Horse is subordinate to the rider in position, the Horse occupies a large area of the Image Real Estate. I do agree with the comments that the Horse is stronger in the particular image, as it is presented.WW

Ah, very helpful info -- the second image I determined as keepable from this session has window light running along the horse's body; however, the rider is not interacting with the horse or me. Next time :-)

You will probably find that if the Subject (and the Horse) were about ⅛ Profile (in this case toward Camera Right so that the Window Light runs along the length of the Horse), you will better be able to use the sunlit side of the horse to lead into the Subject, rather than have the Horse’s (well defined and well muscled) Forequarters acting as a barrier to the Subject.WW

I like this tip thank you. When I have full access to the ring next time, I will bring a step ladder with me.

I do shot on Manual most of the time. I am trying to move to Aperture Priority Mode; however, due to some physical limitations with my right hand, I'm having some difficulties that I need to work thru.

The Camera Elevation slightly emphasises the Horse’s dominance. It’s understood that a step-ladder would have been impractical, but a Technique (not always a successful technique) that you might consider to try next time to get the camera higher is to shoot ‘Hail Mary – Doorstop Style’.

If you ever chose this option, then also choose to shoot a little bit wider, around 100mm for that Shooting Distance should be manageable for a novice; also if you do use this technique, stick a finger over the viewfinder if you are using an Automatic Camera Mode, but for “Hail Mary” it is best to use Manual Camera Mode if you can; and this is also one technique where pulling several shots (scatter gun mode) is a good idea.WW

This is MOST helpful Bill -- thanks for outlining the reasoning behind the crop. Yes, your version does get at my goals; however, for some reason, I am not comfortable with such a dark background. I think it might be the yellow shirt - I know it seems odd, but it's the first thing I notice with the very dark background. I also liked the little bit of depth the faint background provided. I'll have to explore my feelings more about this and work with the image some more.

I think that the squarer the Framing and the Tighter the HORSE is cropped, (to remove as much of the Forequarter area as possible) the more equal that the Rider and the Horse will become in their juxtaposition to each other.

So I would crop the Horse: the Horse’s expression on its face is strong enough to stand alone and on that merit of strength which it exhibits.

I also agree that the background to black would make more drama and that would emphasise the expression on the Rider’s face, and the emotion of ‘determination’: interpreted that she is exiting from ‘darkness’ (the beginning) into ‘control’ (of the event which is upcoming). WW

Very interesting and I tend to agree.

Presently I am involved in a long (mostly philosophical) conversation about Titles (for all works of Art, including Photographs): One of the points which I’m arguing, is that the Photograph (Art Work) needs to stand alone and to be critiqued and judged alone, without Title, because ‘A Title’ can and will initially bias the viewer WW

I'm glad to hear that you have seen improvement -- that's my goal every time I pick up the camera. There's a lot to learn!

Thank you for providing such detailed comments.

[KimC]

Yes, it's all about developing maturity in my thought process when shooting and in PP.

And you'll notice Bill's edit has done just that; less horse and a darker background bring the rider and horse into better balance. A bit of a different head position on the rider's part and you have an excellent shot.

[Mike Buckley]

full frame...it looked like it wasn't cropped in the small thumbnail in my PP application.

Two issues: If your software doesn't automatically update the thumbnail or if you don't manually update it after editing the image, the thumbnail would have been displayed in the uncropped version. I prefer to use the term, full frame, only in the context of a full frame camera as opposed to a crop-factor camera. When referring to an image, I prefer to use the terms, cropped and not cropped, to eliminate any possible confusion. Every once in awhile I might throw in the term, uncropped, as above just to prove that I have not given up on inventing a new word.

I am trying to move to Aperture Priority Mode; however, due to some physical limitations with my right hand, I'm having some difficulties that I need to work thru.

I'm surprised to learn that Aperture priority would be more difficult rather than less difficult with regard to use of your right hand. That's because you would only have to manipulate the aperture setting as opposed to having to manipulate both the aperture and shutter speed when using manual mode. If you also combine Auto ISO with Aperture priority, you'll never have to quickly manipulate the ISO value, making it even easier on your hand. What am I missing?

I am not comfortable with such a dark background. I think it might be the yellow shirt - I know it seems odd, but it's the first thing I notice with the very dark background. I also liked the little bit of depth the faint background provided.

I agree on all counts.

[Polar01]

Nicely done Bill, looking at it through someone else's viewpoint, would not have looked at it that way. Must try to look at different ways of presenting an image.

Cheers: Allan

[KimC]

My software shows me a couple of views - the image I an working on, and then all the thumbnails (smaller of course) on the right. The image I am working on doesn't show the crop after I have made it. The thumbnails use to show me very clearly that the image was cropped. They have made software changes recently, so they must have changed something. So, I will need to be more careful. Thanks for the added clarification on terminology Mike.

Two issues: If your software doesn't automatically update the thumbnail or if you don't manually update it after editing the image, the thumbnail would have been displayed in the uncropped version. I prefer to use the term, full frame, only in the context of a full frame camera as opposed to a crop-factor camera. When referring to an image, I prefer to use the terms, cropped and not cropped, to eliminate any possible confusion. Every once in awhile I might throw in the term, uncropped, as above just to prove that I have not given up on inventing a new word.

You would think it would be easier... but, I am having a heck of a time with exposure compensation buttons - frankly, I can't make the adjustment with the camera at my face as I just don't have the strength in the fingers you would typically use to make the adjustment. I have to do a lot of compensating with my issue, and I just haven't figured this one out yet. I haven't given up yet thou!

I'm surprised to learn that Aperture priority would be more difficult rather than less difficult with regard to use of your right hand. That's because you would only have to manipulate the aperture setting as opposed to having to manipulate both the aperture and shutter speed when using manual mode. If you also combine Auto ISO with Aperture priority, you'll never have to quickly manipulate the ISO value, making it even easier on your hand. What am I missing?

[Mike Buckley]

Ahhhhhh. I didn't think about the potential difficulty of operating the exposure compensation button. Check your manual by conducting a search of "exposure compensation" to determine if there is a way to simply press it once rather than holding it while moving one of the dials. Also look for the possibility to reverse the role of the front and rear dials just in case using one instead of the other in combination with the exposure compensation button makes life easier for you. If none of that helps, you might be better off using Manual exposure.

[William W]

Sorry for late reply. I had a big job away from home. Started this several days ago . . .

. . . I am not comfortable with such a dark background. I think it might be the yellow shirt - I know it seems odd, but it's the first thing I notice with the very dark background. I also liked the little bit of depth the faint background provided. I'll have to explore my feelings more about this and work with the image some more. . .

- And -

I agree on all counts.

Understood.

My first thoughts were to do with the (lack of) width of the framing. To my eye, the Photograph was too (vertically) long and skinny and that emphasised the strength of the Horse and diminished the strength of the Woman. So I increased the width. Obviously, in my editing frame as I was working with the sample, that increased width was blank, so I then needed to make the background black and then fill the increased width with that black (noted that you loo closely it is quite rough in some places).

My point is it would be quite different working with the original frame: with the original width.

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Nicely done Bill, looking at it through someone else's viewpoint, would not have looked at it that way. Must try to look at different ways of presenting an image.

Cheers: Allan

Thanks.
I also noted this:

. . . she [the rider] is wearing a golf shirt, if one were to remove everything from above the last (lowest) button hole. The rider is still there but the main part of the story the horse is even more out in the fore front. That is just my thoughts on the subject, still a very strong image.

I am not sure it is the type of shirt itself that startles my eye. The yellow is very dominate though. I still think that a very dark background would work. Contrary to ‘logic’ a darker (but not black) background might go someway to subduing that yellow shirt.

I’ll add that dominate/primary single colours can (often do) have a very personal effect on people based upon ‘events’ they have experienced in their own life, (so the two Psychologists in my family lecture me): so I don’t think we will get a consensus on the shirt, for that reason, alone.

WW