Willy Wag Tail.

[billabongtim]

Hi Everyone,
My first post.

Attached is a shot I took about 4 weeks ago, but has been a bit of a favourite.
It pretty much sums up what I'm trying to do with my camera, but understanding that I need to get a lot better at it.

Reading other posts, it probably sums up everything I'm doing wrong with the camera.

All help gratefully received.

Tim

[Shadowman]

Hi Tim,

It would probably help if you explained what it is you are trying to do with your camera, for instance-properly exposing an image, capturing motion, silhouettes, etc. Also, please provide camera settings as that would be helpful for particularly photographic pursuits.

[Ziggy]

First of all welcome to the forum Tim.

John is right. Tell us a little about what you would like to do with the camera.

[billabongtim]

Thanks Gents, I greatly appreciate your interest.

I've had the camera for less than 6 months, so I'm learning on all fronts.

I particularly want to capture "frozen moments" of these birds. The smaller the bird the better. They have a nasty habit of being at their most active at the first rays of the sun. The honey eater I'm fighting with at the moment needs around 1/4000th to get a completely crisp wing. He's very fast.

The Willy Wagtail shot is the sort of thing I'm after; The motion is (nearly) stopped, I like the crop of the picture, and despite the colours of the background not being natural, I like the colours that are presented and the over all playfulness of the picture.

The whimsy, or Point Of Interest, is very important to me.

What I've done is attach a photo that I'm not happy with, but it could have been good. This is possibly better to work from.

Despite being 7.15 am and quite a bright day, I've ended up with no background, a slight blur to motion, all sorts of framing issues, including cutting off his tail, but my biggest thing is that I've missed with the depth of field on the flower in the foreground.

The background would probably been a hindrance to the shot if it was there, so I'm happy that it's not. (But I didn't do it on purpose, and wouldn't know how to if I wanted to.)

If I wanted some background instead of darkness, 1/4000th shutter speed and a better depth of field at a range of about 5 metres in the early morning light, how would I go about it?

If I've done this properly, the camera settings should be at the side of the screenshot attached.

Many thanks,

Tim

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Tim,

I wanted to give this post the necessary amount of time to answer all your questions, so I hope you've not lost faith in us and moved on - well it has been 2 weeks now, sorry

I've had the camera for less than 6 months, so I'm learning on all fronts.

I particularly want to capture "frozen moments" of these birds. The smaller the bird the better. They have a nasty habit of being at their most active at the first rays of the sun. The honey eater I'm fighting with at the moment needs around 1/4000th to get a completely crisp wing. He's very fast.

The Willy Wagtail shot is the sort of thing I'm after; The motion is (nearly) stopped, I like the crop of the picture, and despite the colours of the background not being natural, I like the colours that are presented and the over all playfulness of the picture.

The whimsy, or Point Of Interest, is very important to me.

It sounds like you have a grasp of what it takes to find avian subjects and the problems that come with them - and how to deal with some of them.

I don't personally feel qualified to understand your 'whimsy' aspect though - I'm more a technical, than artistic, photographer, which leads me to suggest a few things to get striking images of birds;

- keep the compositions as simple as possible, don't try to combine complex foliage with action shots of birds
- discard any shots that have cropped wings, tails, heads, etc.
- discard any shots that show the back of the bird
- discard any shots where 'stuff has got in the way'
- we want to see the face and eye(s) unobstructed

however; as with all guidance, there are times the 'rules' should be ignored - you'll know when these occur when you have had more practice, although from your self assessment so far, it may take you less time than say, it did me!

What I've done is attach a photo that I'm not happy with, but it could have been good. This is possibly better to work from.

Despite being 7.15 am and quite a bright day, I've ended up with no background, a slight blur to motion, all sorts of framing issues, including cutting off his tail, but my biggest thing is that I've missed with the depth of field on the flower in the foreground.

The background would probably been a hindrance to the shot if it was there, so I'm happy that it's not. (But I didn't do it on purpose, and wouldn't know how to if I wanted to.)

What has happened in the second shot is that the background was in deep shadow while the subject and foliage is in bright sun - as you say, this actually did you a favour.

If I wanted some background instead of darkness, 1/4000th shutter speed and a better depth of field (DoF) at a range of about 5 metres in the early morning light, how would I go about it?

You have put two requirements in one sentence that are mutually exclusive, further, I don't agree the benefit in doing one of them, but I'll try to answer ...

I think you're asking too much, that's unlikely to be practical.
Yes - a faster shutter speed of 1/4000, instead of the 1/2000 this was shot at, would reduce subject movement blur, but won't make the background brighter, quite the opposite. Nor will it improve the DoF.
No - a smaller diameter aperture (higher f/number) to achieve more DoF won't really solve the issue here - the major problem is that the Auto-Focus has latched on to the foreground foliage and made that sharp, so almost half the possible DoF is wasted in the fresh air in front of the foliage and the rest wasn't enough to include the bird somewhat behind it. Perhaps that's what you meant and I mis-understood though. It also won't make the background brighter.

You need a background that is lit better if you want to see it, or it might be possible to improve it in post processing, but I'd rather not go there, as I don't think it will help you take better pictures.

You need to be sure the subject (bird) is what is focussed on and that really means don't try to shoot through foliage, especially not sunlit foliage against a dark background.

Hope that helps, Dave

[IzzieK]

Nice warm welcome to this forum, Tim... hope you try some more uploads and ask questions. Do not be discourage sometimes for the lack of response. Patience...and if you will try to get involved in our conversation, we will get to know you better and give you more responses and help. That is what I found out when I was a CiC greenie...

[billabongtim]

Thanks Dave,

I really appreciate the time it takes to put together a response and the effort you have gone to in answering this.

I found your comment about the auto focus really helpful.
When you don't know much, a comment like this is so helpful. While it's probably obvious to everyone else that it's a focus issue, I was trying to figure out how I afford a larger aperture lens.
I'll go away read the manual.

[billabongtim]

Hi Izzie,

I know how busy life can be, so I am so grateful that such experienced people take time from their busy day to help complete strangers, and generous people take the time to say "Hello".

Many thanks,

Tim

[Shadowman]

Hi Tim,

Missed your follow up post, glad to see you are still with us. Your location should make for some good birding opportunities, also consider city parks where birds are less afraid of humans and will give you a chance to take a photo. One thing to be wary of in public locations are people being less familiar with wildlife and possibly spoiling your shots. Be patient, find a good observation location and with the advise given by Dave and Izzie; have at it.

[IzzieK]

If I wanted some background instead of darkness, 1/4000th shutter speed and a better depth of field at a range of about 5 metres in the early morning light, how would I go about it?

This is my experience. Bear with me...since you said you are new to your camera though not possibly new to shooting with a digital one...

With little birdies, quick as they are, what I do is use my tripod to the lowest position I can put it down, which isn't much for an old ART 190. But for the camera I am using and a long lens, it is sturdy enough not to tip over.

Anyway, that taken cared of, the next is your camera connected to your lens, then connect a remote control so you can be within sight of your camera but away from it for the birds not to be scared of you.

Next is to position your lens to where you think the bird is going to land. On bright sun, set your metering to either Spot or Centre Weighted. Then your White Balance to Cloudy. Read up on Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson...here is a free download if you are interested:

http://uploaded.net/file/zkbbcfoy

Now, set your ISO to auto ISO then focus on automatic first and look around, set the the sharpest focus for your lens without extending it all the way. It shows in your EXIF that you are using a 70-300mm. Set it a little below 300, e.g., 280mm, not fully extended. It is a thing of any zoom lens to be not too sharp at the end all the way. Now time to get off auto-ISO and set your camera without touching anything else yet to the sharpest image you can focus on using manual sharpening.

Now adjust your Aperture or Shutter Speed next...(Google or read up Exposure Triangle). You want fast, start with F13 or F16 (Sunny 16 rule) then adjust your shutter speed to the left. Nothing is moving in the EV (exposure compensation)? Lower your aperture to F11 or F9...fiddle with those two buttons until you see the EV needle moves either left or right...brighter, go to the right. If you need darker, go to the right.

Take a shot each time and review it so you know if the image is to your liking. If not turn up or down your Shutter Speed or Aperture to make that shot as perfect to our eyes as you like. Enable your blinkers (RGB highlight) to watch for clippings.

And shoot RAW.

I hope this helps. I know it seems a lot to take care of but once you get used to it, everything will be easy peasy from then onwards.

Good luck.

[Dave Humphries]

I found your comment about the auto focus really helpful.

Good.

I'll go away read the manual.

I think photographers need to have a grasp of the basics - and the camera manual probably isn't best source for that.


To clarify something:

While it's probably obvious to everyone else that it's a focus issue, I was trying to figure out how I afford a larger aperture lens.

A mid priced telephoto lens is likely to have a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or f/6.3 at full zoom (say 300mm or more), whereas a larger aperture lens; f/4 or even f/2.8 will cost way more (as you correctly predict), but if you shoot at those wider apertures, it will give less Depth of Field, not helping the original problem either.


I can recommend the tutorials on this site (if you've not yet found them), but don't overload yourself; read one topic, practice it until you have it well understood, then pick another topic.


I would also suggest you practice more on your own (as indeed you seem to be); but do try different settings yourself and observe the effect these have on your photos, after all the 'film' is cheap
Some will work, many will not, but at least you can delete them afterwards, when not needed.


That's quite a nice shot of the swan, my suggestions to try in this situation would be:
It might be better framed with a little more space 'ahead' of it (i.e. on left in this case), rather than behind it.
If you had used a slightly slower shutter speed, instead of the water droplets being frozen points of light, they could be small arcs of light, which might look prettier and impart more of an action 'feel' to the image.

I'm not saying I'm right, they are just ideas to explore.

Cheers, Dave

[billabongtim]

Thank you Izzie, for the thought and effort you have taken to put that together. I printed it and took it with me today, and think I have gained a grasp of where I should be going.
I'm a bit unsure about shooting with RAW. I'd never even heard the term before I bought this camera. I certainly have no idea how to use it. Like everything else, it will take practice. Is it just so you are better able to manipulate the picture afterwards?
Or is there more to it?

[Dave Humphries]

I'm a bit unsure about shooting with RAW. I'd never even heard the term before I bought this camera. I certainly have no idea how to use it. Like everything else, it will take practice.

Is it just so you are better able to manipulate the picture afterwards?
Or is there more to it?

In a word; Yes - you got it in one.

[IzzieK]

+1 to Dave's comment...my answer too is yes because it has more data than just a jpeg or any other format so some people will normally say, it does not matter what metering you use, but I still want my meter to be the correct one so when it comes to editing your shot you got more to move around in pixels, removing them and manipulating it better...

[billabongtim]

Thanks Dave,
I still draw on what you have said. A complex game, but I'm enjoying learning the rules.

[Wavelength]

Hi Tim
What is the fps(frames per second) your camera offers? birds in action can be shot with max fps, i hope.... ( i still shoot only sitting birds )
Wish you all the best with your efforts; people here are affectionately helpful.....

[mknittle]

Thanks Dave,
I still draw on what you have said. A complex game, but I'm enjoying learning the rules.

I think with that attitude you will catch on pretty fast.

[billabongtim]

Hi Nandakumar,
I have a Sony a65. The book says it shoots 10 fps. I've just held the shutter release down for 1 second and I got three shots before the processor loaded up. I'll try it on a bright sunny day and see if it performs better.