Wines again...

[Shadowman]

I brought a bottle of this wine to a party purely for the humor attached to the name. My friend who considers himself a wine connoisseur was so angry that people were actually drinking it over his more expensive wine.

http://fatbastardwine.com/story-and-wines.php

[Mike Buckley]

I consider myself a wine connoisseur (though not at the highest level of appreciation) and the only thing I ever care about when it comes to others drinking wine is that they enjoy it. My wife and I did a blind tasting once and she far preferred the much, much cheaper of the two wines. To each his own.

As for the price of the Fat Bastard wine, I recently came upon a wine of the same price that I will put up against any wine made from the same grape at twice the cost. Though Fat Bastard wine is sold in my area, I've never tried it. For all I know, I'm missing out on one of the great values in wine.

[Donald]

I put myself in the same category as Mike. We have, here, what we call wine snobs. Sounds like John's friend may be in that category. There's a lot of good value out there. There's also a lot of rubbish. It's about finding out which is which.

[Mike Buckley]

We have, here, what we call wine snobs.

I have a pair of longtime friends who also enjoy wine. When I first met them years ago, we were enjoying an elegant lunch at the home of mutual friends. The couple explained that they took a wine course, so I asked why. He joked that they wanted to become instant wine snobs. I asked if the course made that happen. She, who is one of my most sensitive and refined friends, exploded, "Hell, yes!" Actually, she used a far more crude expression having the same meaning that can't be repeated here because it begins with the F-word.

[Manfred M]

I enjoy a nice bottle of wine from time to time; I tend to be a red wine drinker in the colder months and white wine in the warmer ones, but am certainly not in the same class as you are Mike.

I remember taking a wine tasting course years ago. On the first night, some 25 people showed up and paid their money to cover the costs of the wine. For the following 12 weeks, I think the maximum number of people that showed was around 7. I do remember learning a lot and much to my chagrin, I had to miss the week that the German wines were being covered as I had to head out of town on business for a few days.

I obviously did not want to drive after wine tasting, so my wife enrolled in a sketching course that was being offered in the same building, so I did have a "built-in" designated driver. Even though this was probably 25 or 30 years ago, my wife still hasn't forgiven me....

The one thing that I do like is that the local wine industry has really blossomed. Back 25 or 30 years ago, the local wine industry (run by a handful of large "wineries") produced rather sketchy wines. One of the most popular ones was "Baby Duck"; that should tell you something about the state of the industry.

One local entrepreneur fought the bureaucracy and one his battle against the "giants", and soon others followed (Inniskillin Winery). The Marechal Foch grape, a hybrid was quite popular in the early days, and I miss it as it is hard to find. The growers have very much switched to the European varietals now.

Niagara area (Ontario) wines are excellent now, and the ice wines produced there usually take most if not all of the major international awards, but they are far too sweet for me. The Okanagan Valley in British Columbia also make excellent wines, but because of inter-provincial trade barriers, these are harder to get hold of. Prince Edward County, on Lake Ontario and the Eastern Townships in Quebec are newer, but are starting to produce interesting wines as well.

We are hoping to spend a few days in South-Western Ontario next week, and I hope to visit one of my favourite wineries; Pelee Island and pick up a few cases while we are down there. My stock of white wines is running a touch low...

[IzzieK]

I am not a wine person but I do cook with them...red for red meat and white for white meat. One day hubby was looking for the bottle of Dom Perignon because he wants a little bit of taste from it...wellllll.........I poured half of it that was left in the bottle in my cooking...I have never been allowed to touch that wine since...I was given my own little "collection"...they said to use the wine you can drink in your cooking, but I am a teetotaler so I don't really have a clue about the difference.

Anyway John, that wine has a nice sound to it...bastard. Cute...sounds like an Aussie or Brit creation...

[Mike Buckley]

I had to miss the week that the German wines were being covered

The German wines are the one large, historic group of wines that I've never gotten into. That's because I've never taken the time to learn the various German words on the bottle that indicate the degree of sweetness (or complete lack of it).

I obviously did not want to drive after wine tasting

You're probably aware that the pros don't swallow the wine; they spit it out. I've never done that but it is always an option.

Even though this was probably 25 or 30 years ago, my wife still hasn't forgiven me....

That's surely one of the most important reasons God invented wives.

The Marechal Foch grape, a hybrid was quite popular in the early days, and I miss it as it is hard to find.

I went to Nova Scotia five years ago and learned about and enjoyed the Marechal Foch grape there. It was offered by every restaurant and every little tiny wine store. Much to my surprise a couple years ago, I had dinner at the house of some good friends and they very proudly served a bottle of wine that they had set aside just for me and my wife. It was a bottle of Marechal Foch that they had brought back from their own trip to Nova Scotia.

If you ever get to Minnesota, I've consistently read that they produce a lot of wine made from Marechal Foch.

[Manfred M]

The German wines are the one large, historic group of wines that I've never gotten into. That's because I've never taken the time to learn the various German words on the bottle that indicate the degree of sweetness (or complete lack of it).

I've always preferred the German whites to the French ones, probably for no other reason that those are the wines I saw at home growing up. The traditional bit of sweetness to counter the acidity has always worked for me. The Riesling grape is definitely my favourite white wine grape and the Rheinwein (regardless of the location) as well as the wines from the Mosel-Saar-Ruwer areas tend to be what I stick to most often.

I have a bit of a soft spot for the Franken (Franconia) region, which is where I was born. These wines in their traditional Bocksbeutel bottles are a lot drier and much more like the French wines (usually Silvaner and Müller-Thurgau grapes); but these wines rarely show up in Canada, so I usually have to visit Germany to try them.

German reds - well, let's say I don't think the Germans make particularly good reds....

When it comes to the white French wines, I'm generally a fan of the Alsatian Gewürztraminers and generally the only French white wine I avoid is a Chardonnay; frankly I've never had one I've liked.

You're probably aware that the pros don't swallow the wine; they spit it out. I've never done that but it is always an option.

Yes, and that is certainly one advantage of being an amateur!

[joebranko]

I too have taken a wine to a party because of its name- " Ménage à trois". It was a hit!

[IzzieK]

I too have taken a wine to a party because of its name- " Ménage à trois". It was a hit!

That is a disgusting phrase, Joe!

[george013]

My firstborn. Now finding a barrel big enough for him.



George

[Manfred M]

George - if things are like at my house, these won't be there too long; so you may not have enough for even a tiny barrel. The birds and squirrels are great fans of our grapes and leave very few for human consumption.

[FootLoose]

That is a disgusting phrase, Joe!

Lol

Do you remember Reno Pogel, Izzie?

[Mike Buckley]

This thread takes the record for the number of times it has been hijacked. It's a good thing John is being so lenient with us...or so we think.

[John 2]

I've always preferred the German whites to the French ones, probably for no other reason that those are the wines I saw at home growing up. The traditional bit of sweetness to counter the acidity has always worked for me. The Riesling grape is definitely my favourite white wine grape and the Rheinwein (regardless of the location) as well as the wines from the Mosel-Saar-Ruwer areas tend to be what I stick to most often.

I have a bit of a soft spot for the Franken (Franconia) region, which is where I was born. These wines in their traditional Bocksbeutel bottles are a lot drier and much more like the French wines (usually Silvaner and Müller-Thurgau grapes); but these wines rarely show up in Canada, so I usually have to visit Germany to try them.

German reds - well, let's say I don't think the Germans make particularly good reds....

When it comes to the white French wines, I'm generally a fan of the Alsatian Gewürztraminers and generally the only French white wine I avoid is a Chardonnay; frankly I've never had one I've liked.





Yes, and that is certainly one advantage of being an amateur!

During my working life in procurement, I spent a great deal of time visiting Germany. Franken wine was a must for the duty free bag but the shape of the bottle was a bit limiting. A favourite of mine but very difficult to find in the UK although it is available. I was never a particular fan of Riesling in its medium dry form but in recent years, dry Riesling has begun to appear but much of it of non- German origin and that I do like.

When it comes to German red wine, as a young buyer, I used to deal with a company based in Heidelberg. Over lunch, I happened to mention the very ordinary white wines that were available in the UK at that time e.g. Blue Nun etc. They were quite disparaging and explained to me that the difference between the French and the Germans was that the French exported their best wines but Germany keeps the best for itself. This company (in the Defence Industry) regularly bought a whole harvest from local vineyards and when it was ready and bottled, made it available to its employees. I can't see a UK company ever contemplating that.

During the same conversation, I naively asked why Germany produced no red wine. The result was that my opposite number was detailed to take me out that evening to begin my education. I was introduced to Baden reds which I can occasionally find in the UK, and Red Riesling (Roter Riesling - a revelation) which sadly I have never managed to find in the UK. Both not as full bodied as some but very good to my admittedly untutored palate.

As for spitting out wine, the answer has to be "..only as an involuntary reaction".

[george013]

George - if things are like at my house, these won't be there too long; so you may not have enough for even a tiny barrel. The birds and squirrels are great fans of our grapes and leave very few for human consumption.

I'm more worried about the pub next door.
This house is about 350 years old. All kind of craftsmen has lived and worked here. I wouldn't trust the ground for food. The eventual wine would be a Premium Chateau Migraine.

George

[Mike Buckley]

Red Riesling (Roter Riesling - a revelation) which sadly I have never managed to find in the UK.

Never heard of it. The following is what Wikipedia has to say about it:

"A very rare version of Riesling which has recently received more attention is Red Riesling (Roter Riesling). As the name suggests, this is a red-skinned clone of Riesling (a skin color commonly found for e.g. Gewürztraminer), but not a dark-skinned clone, i.e., it is still a white wine grape. It is considered a mutation of White Riesling, but some experts have suggested the opposite relationship, i.e., that Red Riesling could be the forerunner of White Riesling.[11] Small amounts of Red Riesling are grown in Germany and Austria. In 2006, the Rheingau winery Fritz Allendorf planted what has been claimed to be the first commercial amounts of Red Riesling.[45] To confuse matters, "Red Riesling" has also been used as a synonym for red-skinned Traminer grapes (such as the Savagnin rose of Klevener de Heiligenstein) and the obscure variety Hanns, which is a seed plant of Roter Veltliner. Roter Riesling has nothing to do with Schwarzriesling."

[Manfred M]

As for spitting out wine, the answer has to be "..only as an involuntary reaction".

That reminds me of another story from our travels.

During our first visit the China in 1997, it seems that the Chinese restaurants we visited offered green tea (of course), water and soda pop and beer. My wife, who was not a beer drinker got tired of the first three choices after awhile and decided to try the beer, Tsing Tao. It was surprisingly good, and she has enjoyed beer ever since. Apparently, the brewery was founded by German brewers in the early 1900s. The Chinese (after the brewery was nationalized by the Chinese), kept the tradition going.

We then came across Chinese wine, a Riesling, and given our experience with Chinese beer, we were quite optimistic. ERROR! Spitting out was the only possible human reaction.

[Mike Buckley]

If home and restaurant cooking in China of Chinese recipes is the same as in America, it's understandable why they wouldn't know much about wine. There are two ingredients that simply don't go well with wine -- salt and vinegar. In America, the salty flavor of regular soy sauce is deadly on wine. I always use the soy sauce that has the reduced amount of sodium. Even then wine isn't always an acceptable pairing. When it is, I usually drink Alsatian white wine, especially Gewurtzraminer.

On the other hand, the current wealthy generation of Chinese billionaires and multi-millionaires are constantly being blamed for driving up the price of extremely high-end wine. They apparently know their wine and have the money to pay for it.

[Manfred M]

Mike we found the mass market Chinese food found in America to be significantly different to the regional diversity of foods we found in the parts of China we have visited, much as the American view of popular Italian food often bears little resemblance to the food eaten in the parts of Italy I've visited.

Both seem to have been adapted to the "American" palate; heavy on salt and low on spices. I suspect that much of the American Chinese has more of a Cantonese influence. That being said the higher end restaurants in both Italian and Chinese cuisine can be an exception to what I have written.