To clone or not to clone; that is the question.

[arith]

I thought this was going to be easy to clone out, turns out it's hard.

[Shadowman]

Good effort. I'm torn on the cloning of this particular scene, the signage doesn't necessarily distract, would look better if all of the lettering were displayed. I think the red awning is more distracting; however both the signage and awning work well as pointing devices. I might tone done the red somewhat. You have a lot of good shapes and angles within the composition.

[arith]

Cheers John,

[chauncey]

More working of the scene would have removed the necessity for cloning.

[benm]

When I opened this thread I only saw the first image. I thought you would be asking about removing either the woman or the lightpole.

What is the subject? The answer to that will tell you what to clone, if anything and/or what to crop, if any.
If subject is "street scene" maybe nothing needs to be done.
If subject is "statue" then significant cloning and cropping.

[arith]

I thought it would be easy to clone out Chauncey; and I didn't want to walk 200 metres to get a reverse shot full of hundreds of tourists, scaffolding and buses, in the 34C heat.

A wider lens or a full format camera would have helped, getting closer means pointing up and causing perspective problems, meaning more room would be needed at the top, unless I just forget about the Golden Ratio.

At the time this seemed the best solution, I'm just sorry I can't clone it, well I can if I cut some blokes front end off and just leave sky above the sign but I kinda like the Golden Ratio so can't cut back to the monument without some sort of worse problem.

[arith]

It is both Ben, it is not the easiest thing to clone though, that is why I asked.

[Stagecoach]

I really can not understand Steve why you feel it necessary to take the time to clone in post something which is basically a snapshot of a street.

Just how far do you go, the netting over the statue, the other signs, the people?

[arith]

I would like my holiday snapshot to look as good as possible Grahame, if I only needed a snapshot I wouldn't even be here and would point a mobile phone in the general direction.

So unlike in the past the people of this forum no longer wish to help, and it is only a forum of the rich self appointed experts who can get anywhere, I'm sorry I asked for an opinion.

Consider the question un-asked, so you can concentrate on making smooth water on a night scene with nice little starry things in a remote spot we all can go wow at instead.

Sorry I asked.

[Manfred M]

Steve - this is something I would try to get right at capture. There is a lot more time and effort required to fix this type of issue in post. In general I find 1 minute spent in getting the shot right generally saves 10 - 20 minutes in post-production work.

As for the "golden rule", in my view it's more like a suggestion than a hard and fast rule. If applying it results in an inferior composition, then I would tend to bend it (or any other) compositional rule.

[arith]

I thought this was the best option Manfred; I don't like to go on about disabilities, but the reason I haven't been taking photographs recently is because I suffer from severe osteoarthritis, forestiers disease, chronic heart disease, a brain injury and related problems, don't get any help apart from at airports and this is the first time I've ever been abroad, although I've flown aircraft I have never been in an airliner; I have to think twice before kneeling down, just going around a subject is a lot so I chose somewhere with a brilliant public transport system and if you look carefully I'm never far from a bus stop, tram stop or underground.

I asked which is better because I couldn't do an invisible clone, the photo isn't in a competition, it is to serve both as a reminder of my holiday and practice doing photography, nothing else.

I now know cloning is not the answer, but as I explained nothing was ideal and this is the least people and the best background.

[Stagecoach]

I would like my holiday snapshot to look as good as possible Grahame, if I only needed a snapshot I wouldn't even be here and would point a mobile phone in the general direction.

So unlike in the past the people of this forum no longer wish to help, and it is only a forum of the rich self appointed experts who can get anywhere, I'm sorry I asked for an opinion.

Consider the question un-asked, so you can concentrate on making smooth water on a night scene with nice little starry things in a remote spot we all can go wow at instead.

Sorry I asked.

Steve,

You posted an image and asked a question, 'to clone or not to clone'. My reply to you was totally with respect to that image and that question.

You on the other hand decide to make personal comments that have nothing to do with either your image or the question posed.

[Manfred M]

Steve - I was aware of some of your health issues and can only commend your determination and drive to get out on this trip and get some photography in. Unfortunately, I know severe osteoarthritis all too well myself.

My comments were more directed at things you should think about before pressing the shutter release, regardless of where you are. I have found that people often forget some of their basic photographic skills and knowledge when they get to an unfamiliar place. The thoughts are more about things to consider next time you are out shooting. You have what you have, and now is the time to figure out how to preserve those memories.

[billtils]

+1

[arith]

The question was to clone or not; I could rephrase it to, does the sign matter, it wasn't, should I have taken a completely different picture.

It is not a snapshot, I take care with verticals and either rule of thirds or golden ration, I take care with exposure and lighting, I bang my exposure up to the right for architecture and less so for skin tones. I consider the background, if I'm chopping people out or if there are too many of them.

Too get closer and point up pushes buildings over, it loses people which are part of the scene, the chap browsing the book stall, the child looking bored.

Of course I know a lot would concentrate on only one of those things, but it wouldn't be a record of my holiday. I can take photo's of scaffolding right here, I can take photo's of people sitting in a café right here, or I can take snapshots of Vienna, I took quite a few on my mobile by the way.

I saw a lot of fantastic images of Vienna before I went, ones taken in haunting dark streets I thought were remarkable, but you can't really expect me to carry a tripod and expensive camera down dark uninhabited streets on my own when I can hardly walk as it is, especially as one of the first impressions of Vienna after the sheer opulence is there doesn't appear to be a straight street sign or public area that isn't filled with graffiti. I was already informed the walk towards Praterstern along the Danube Canal is the red light district, not that I could walk all the way there, so I took the underground for three stops and the disabled lift, although there is still a frightening road to cross and those green men always flash hurry up before I'm across.

I took a photo of a bridge some time ago, one person advised I should wade into the river for a better shot; I know already, just can't wade into the river.

[pnodrog]

I prefer the cloned version. As Picaso said "art is about eliminating the unnecessary." I think the sign is unnecessary and detracts from the statue. Changing your viewpoint or cloning are tools available to you as a photographer. As far as I am concerned it is up to you which you use.

[MrB]

Steve, the answer for me is definitely to clone - that awful sign is a distracting intrusion into the scene as shot.

The alternative answer would be correct only if the purpose of the image is to illustrate the negligence of so-called planners in protecting the heritage of the town. But it seems obvious, just from the two images, that your intention was simply to record a street scene to show the wonderful architecture, the amazing monument, and some of the people.

Cheers.
Philip

[IzzieK]

I am with Grahame...if you start cloning out stuffs in your particular shot here, then you might as well clone two more signage and that red something there...then there's the netting around the statue too...at the moment I like #1 preferably because you've cloned out one, but once you start cloning another one, another one will be the next target...he does mean well. If his message did not come out well for you, then it is your understanding of what he is trying to say about your image.

[Cantab]

There are a number of us on CiC with disabilities of one sort or another, many of which alter what we might otherwise do when taking a photograph. Steve's question is straightforward: to clone or not to clone – the goal being to maximize an image which was the best achievable at the time it was taken.

For me it's a difficult decision. The cloned image has evidence of the cloning; however, I wonder how noticeable that would be to someone who was unaware of the cloning. With the un-cloned image, the sign closest to the camera is part of the environment of the square – as are the other signs in the photo.

If I'd taken the photo and the photo was solely for my use, I probably would use the un-cloned version. If, however, I was intending to display the photo to others I might perhaps used the cloned version (in the hope that others would not notice the telltale structure of the clouds where the sign used to be).

I've enjoyed looking at this photo.

[arith]

Cheers Bruce.