So this is a snapshot I took this morning...for C&C please....

[IzzieK]

OK, early morning here although it is about 8am now...'been up early trying to catch the hummers at their best. What I did yesterday with the bees works so none of them complained to me this morning, both the hummers and the bees...so everything is going well in that direction...not one hummer buzzing me nor bees -- they stayed in their own little corners...

BUT! according to what I read and instructions and advice given to me here by my fellow CiC members about Exposure compensation and all that Exposure Triangle I had done in my camera, this shot was about 1/450 or less at AutoISO, Shady metering at F5.6...

Of course the wings are still blurred but I will work on that in the coming weeks until I get it right...for the time being, this is the best I can do...I only took 2 shots and this is the better one of the two...not much pp done here, just lower the highlight at the right side of the frame, cropped then applied Unsharp Mask at AMT: 100; Radius: 1 and Threshold: 0




Please critique me as harsh as you can so I will learn some more. I had read atrocious articles on hummers yesterday but I think this will be good enough as a snapshot as I can get for the time being...

[Shadowman]

Having the wings in focus might be your specific goal, but I think this type of shot works better with blurred wings. One other thing you might consider trying is to shoot video, it would give a good chance to observe the hummer's behavior. Nicely captured, great background.

[marlunn]

prefer blurred wings - same reason as for aircraft propellers, it looks right - if the wings are static it looks like its pinned to the picture ! Love the background but the 'noise' from the iso, I assume, is a bit high, however not to the point that I would bin it

[Donald]

but I think this will be good enough as a snapshot as I can get for the time being...

I think it is a lot more than that. A lot more.

I take the point about wanting to freeze the wings. That's got its strengths, no doubt. But .......!

You have nailed the focus perfectly in this. The eye is bright. We can see the detail of the feathers on head, neck and chest. I think it's a wonderfully artistic image.

What maybe would strengthen its artistic merit is if the background was not so similar in colour and tone. On one hand, it adds to the harmony of the image, but on the other hand, the beating wings get lost in the blurred background. If the background was of a different tone, the blurred wings would stand out from the background and I think that could make for a spectacular image.

Noise-wise - it's fine for online viewing, but I don't think you'd get away with trying to print it. Is f5.6 the widest you can get with your lens?

So, it's sure not a snapshot. It's good photography.

[Ziggy]

Not bad Izzie. Your camera is totally different that what I use so can't help much.

I still don't think you are getting enough light and I'm a little surprised at the amount of noise from the D810 at ISO 3200.

In the EXIF is has sharpness set to 25. Is that high?

[Teton Chuck]

Izzie, you nailed the eye. It is in sharp focus. I agree that stopping the wings is not necessary for an interesting shot. I'm amazed that you got such clarity at 1/450 sec. When I am photographing swallows in flight I consider 1/2500 to be a minimum shutter speed. Of course your hummer is not moving as fast, but my experience has been that a faster shutter speed gets more clarity when it comes to birds. If you have your feeder where it gets sufficient light you can "shoot to the right" and get rid of a lot of noise.

I can tell you are having a lot of fun getting into the world of photographing birds. And I can see your progress. I am certainly not an expert in bird photography, but I hope these comments are useful to you. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Izzie,

That's a nice pose you have caught there.

Others have covered several topics, I am going to concentrate on better processing for improving quality.

...not much pp done here, just lower the highlight at the right side of the frame, cropped then applied Unsharp Mask at AMT: 100; Radius: 1 and Threshold: 0

I have two suggestions that will result in better quality images here at CiC.

The reason we are seeing lots of sharpened noise in (the blurry backgrounds of) your shots is because I suspect you are always using Threshold 0.

It also matters when (in the workflow) you sharpen, it is better after any downsizing, because the act of downsizing reduces fine noise, so there is less to be sharpened. Add to that if you raise the threshold a bit, it will not sharpen the low level edges (i.e. the remaining noise). Win-win.


Apart from cropping, I am guessing that you probably downsized this to 1,600px × 1,393px (for TinyPic).
That still leaves it 1393 px high, much bigger than our monitor's screen height.

You could try this as an exercise from the RAW image ...

After all other processing (except sharpening); Downsize to make the height no more than say; 900 px, it will then fit many more of our screens better at 100% (in LyteBox) and allow us to view at 100%, which gives us optimum sharpness (without scrolling being necessary).

Now to sharpening; the values I urge you use are Amount: 100%, Radius 0.3 px or 0.4 px (0.5 px if you must), Threshold 2 should do. The narrower Radius will also reduce the visibility of background noise.

Good luck, Dave

[Ndukes]

That's really nice Izzie. Try reducing contrast and increasing blurring in the background.

[IzzieK]

Having the wings in focus might be your specific goal, but I think this type of shot works better with blurred wings. One other thing you might consider trying is to shoot video, it would give a good chance to observe the hummer's behavior. Nicely captured, great background.

Thanks for the extra help and reminder, John...I will make sure I get a video instead...I keep forgetting my camera has a video..I will remember tomorrow...

Ooorrrruuuu...

[IzzieK]

prefer blurred wings - same reason as for aircraft propellers, it looks right - if the wings are static it looks like its pinned to the picture ! Love the background but the 'noise' from the iso, I assume, is a bit high, however not to the point that I would bin it

Thanks Mark...very nice thought for my shot...I will try to go back to non-Auto ISO tomorrow...I have not finished with this experiment yet even if I do not share all of my shots because you'd all get sick of the same thing over and other again...when I ran out of options, I'd stop...

[IzzieK]

I think it is a lot more than that. A lot more.

I take the point about wanting to freeze the wings. That's got its strengths, no doubt. But .......!

You have nailed the focus perfectly in this. The eye is bright. We can see the detail of the feathers on head, neck and chest. I think it's a wonderfully artistic image.

Thanks Donald...

What maybe would strengthen its artistic merit is if the background was not so similar in colour and tone. On one hand, it adds to the harmony of the image, but on the other hand, the beating wings get lost in the blurred background. If the background was of a different tone, the blurred wings would stand out from the background and I think that could make for a spectacular image.

I understand this and I agree with you but that is the best place I can put that feeder because we have an open deck (no shade up there...) we used to have a nice shade with furniture settings but the winds from the thunderstorm blew it to the next property...we are just glad no one was hurt...that was pure metal roaming around being blown away...we haven't got to the point of replacing that shade yet...one of these days...maybe.

Noise-wise - it's fine for online viewing, but I don't think you'd get away with trying to print it. Is f5.6 the widest you can get with your lens?

No...I think it can go down to F4 no less...but since the recommendation is "normal 5.6" that was what I used. I had done F7.1 to F9...it did not make a difference apart from the depth of field...of course...

And I do not intend to print it yet while I am experimenting...none of my experiments see any printing until I am satisfied it is good enough to print and displace...some to put up the next one...Bill likes my photographs around the house but he is not a critic so he cannot see what we here at CiC sees before we commit to any printing...or he just loves me and not want to hurt my feelings...either way...but I like a good photograph to put up in my space just like most of us...

So, it's sure not a snapshot. It's good photography.

Thank you Donald for your comments and feedback. I appreciate it very much.

[IzzieK]

Not bad Izzie. Your camera is totally different that what I use so can't help much.

I still don't think you are getting enough light and I'm a little surprised at the amount of noise from the D810 at ISO 3200.

In the EXIF is has sharpness set to 25. Is that high?

Yes...I think it is high too...but I do not know how to take it back after I shut off ACR...I need to start all over again, Ziggy...and thanks for the feedback...'do appreciate your following my hummer post..

[IzzieK]

Izzie, you nailed the eye. It is in sharp focus. I agree that stopping the wings is not necessary for an interesting shot. I'm amazed that you got such clarity at 1/450 sec. When I am photographing swallows in flight I consider 1/2500 to be a minimum shutter speed. Of course your hummer is not moving as fast, but my experience has been that a faster shutter speed gets more clarity when it comes to birds. If you have your feeder where it gets sufficient light you can "shoot to the right" and get rid of a lot of noise.

I tried...goodness I tried...the light changes is what annoys me most...when my head is down trying another setting, either the bird was playing by the top of my head or the light changes... when I have my eyes on the viewer there is nothing there but the feeder so I take another shot of the condition...I had since learned how to look at my surroundings on the left eye while keeping my other eye on the viewer...

I can tell you are having a lot of fun getting into the world of photographing birds. And I can see your progress. I am certainly not an expert in bird photography, but I hope these comments are useful to you. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Of course it is helpful to me Chuck...I love experimenting really and getting it right but this hummingbird thing really takes the cake for me at the moment...I don't want to consume my life and my being, so I am gardening tomorrow instead...it settles me down as much as cooking and photography does...I did some cooking and cleaning yesterday so that part was done to make way for my hummer experiment today so if I do not change my mind about the hummers, after making them comfortable in their corner, I will implement the changes you suggested about faster speed with the combination of non-autoISO again...

Thanks for passing by and giving me some feedback and help. I do appreciate it very much.

[IzzieK]

That's really nice Izzie. Try reducing contrast and increasing blurring in the background.

Oh, OK...this is the first time I used contrast in ACR and you noticed it? Good eye! I will try to use my lowest setting tomorrow...so far I have been following the advice on F5.6 - F9.

Thanks for your nice comment and help...I do appreciate any that I can get...

[IzzieK]

And now I've saved the best for last...

Hi Izzie,

That's a nice pose you have caught there.

Others have covered several topics, I am going to concentrate on better processing for improving quality.

I saw your post yesterday but I got too busy doing my household task so that I can have more time this weekend (for me.) so I was not able to implement any changes I need to do...as suggested below.

I have two suggestions that will result in better quality images here at CiC.

The reason we are seeing lots of sharpened noise in (the blurry backgrounds of) your shots is because I suspect you are always using Threshold 0.

It also matters when (in the workflow) you sharpen, it is better after any downsizing, because the act of downsizing reduces fine noise, so there is less to be sharpened. Add to that if you raise the threshold a bit, it will not sharpen the low level edges (i.e. the remaining noise). Win-win.

Yes, I only did the sharpening after cropping to 1600px...maybe if I did not do the sharpening, the noise will not be so evident? Just a thought...Anyway, I will try this first one with the raw file...I was so happy to have nailed the eyes that I thought, WoW that is nice and forgot to ask how to de-noise it without going to the De-noise option of Photoshop...

Apart from cropping, I am guessing that you probably downsized this to 1,600px × 1,393px (for TinyPic).
That still leaves it 1393 px high, much bigger than our monitor's screen height.

You could try this as an exercise from the RAW image ...

After all other processing (except sharpening); Downsize to make the height no more than say; 900 px, it will then fit many more of our screens better at 100% (in LyteBox) and allow us to view at 100%, which gives us optimum sharpness (without scrolling being necessary).

OK...consider it done...thanks...

Now to sharpening; the values I urge you use are Amount: 100%, Radius 0.3 px or 0.4 px (0.5 px if you must), Threshold 2 should do. The narrower Radius will also reduce the visibility of background noise.

Good luck, Dave

This is the part I like best yesterday...I had been following a few suggestion for Unsharp Mask here at CiC but I guess not everything is one-size-fits-all...thanks for this one...I will put this in my note...with a label for hummer shots.

Do appreciate the extra help...have a nice beautiful day....me? going back to bed before Bill drag me up the stairs... 'night....

[Stagecoach]

Hi Izzie,

Good progress and this one gives a worthwhile example of what you can achieve at the slower speed of 1/400s, head beak and throat frozen and sharp !

I would love to see the original RAW as straight out of the camera, no PP at all but just converted to jpeg for posting at say 1500px wide to try and analyse further why you are getting the noise.

Grahame

[chauncey]

I don't "chase" Hummers...make a very well lit shooting gallery with a baited target. "They will come"

Tripod mounted long glass, pre-focused on target, remote shutter in one hand and morning coffee
in the other hand while reclining in a lounge chair. Shoot anytime any hummer enters your FOV.
Your gonna have a ton of OOF images, but...you will have a few great ones.

[IzzieK]

Did I tell you that this is handheld and I used my 70-300mm lens?

Here is the original....straight from the NEF to JPG...

Hi Izzie,

Good progress and this one gives a worthwhile example of what you can achieve at the slower speed of 1/400s, head beak and throat frozen and sharp !

I would love to see the original RAW as straight out of the camera, no PP at all but just converted to jpeg for posting at say 1500px wide to try and analyse further why you are getting the noise.

Grahame

[IzzieK]

I don't "chase" Hummers...make a very well lit shooting gallery with a baited target. "They will come"

You watch too many old movies...

Tripod mounted long glass, pre-focused on target, remote shutter in one hand and morning coffee
in the other hand while reclining in a lounge chair. Shoot anytime any hummer enters your FOV.
Your gonna have a ton of OOF images, but...you will have a few great ones.

I've done it, William...but I was 7-8 ft away from the feeder and no coffee for me, just hot green tea or very cold water...I have a lot of OOF as you said, so I did not consider them any better. This one is handheld using a shorter lens...and I thoroughly enjoyed the action and the reaction...so did the Hummers...You should try it one day, it is both exhilarating and exciting and frustrating...you deserve to be stressed out every now and then so it is easy to relax later on...

[Brownbear]

Isabel,

Beautifully captured... Wonderful focus on the birds head and eye, and beautiful colours. I like the wing flutter for the sense of motion. My hummingbirds have departed but in my limited experience it seems that because they stop to hover in flight using slower shutter speeds than for normal BIF seems to work. If it were my image I wouldn't crop so heavily, ie; only to eliminate the feeder. The greenery in the background is lovely.