Your thoughts please!

[Wandjina]

This photo has done very well for me in recent competitions. The young girl is an amateur model dressed in period clothes and the graveyard is part of a replica village at Tailem Bend on the River Murray in South Australia. I'm not sure if the headstones have been brought in from elsewhere or if this replica town has been built around an existing graveyard.
The question was raised at a recent competition as to whether the names on the headstones should be rendered unreadable using Post Processing.
Personally I am happy with it as it is, but I am interested in hearing any comments about the photo and the point that was raised.

C&C welcomed

[Mike Buckley]

Very nice photo! I think the names look fine as is. Is the suggestion to make them unreadable based on ethics or a photographic goal? I ask because I've never heard of any ethical concerns regarding gravestones.

[Wandjina]

Very nice photo! I think the names look fine as is. Is the suggestion to make them unreadable based on ethics or a photographic goal? I ask because I've never heard of any ethical concerns regarding gravestones.

Thanks for your reply Mike. The reasons given were ethics and privacy.

[Manfred M]

Thanks for your reply Mike. The reasons given were ethics and privacy.

This is a beautiful composed and executed image. I can see why it has done so well in competitions. Removing or altering the inscriptions on the gravestones would, in my view, greatly degrade this image. It might also run afoul of the rules regarding image manipulation that are in place in some of these competitions. I wouldn't touch a thing. The suggestion of doing this could even have come from a competitor who would like nothing better than have this image becoming non-competitive. It wouldn't be the first time someone tries dirty tricks in a competition...

If this is a replica town, then I would suggest I would have no ethical qualms about showing everything as is on the grave markers. You don't seem to have any ethical qualms about using the likeness of the young lady in the image...

However, there could be legal / commercial issues involved. You appear to be on private property when you took this pictures, so there could be some legal restrictions on the use of any images taken on the property (usually restricted to commercial use / licensing issues).

[Wandjina]

This is a beautiful composed and executed image. I can see why it has done so well in competitions. Removing or altering the inscriptions on the gravestones would, in my view, greatly degrade this image. It might also run afoul of the rules regarding image manipulation that are in place in some of these competitions. I wouldn't touch a thing. The suggestion of doing this could even have come from a competitor who would like nothing better than have this image becoming non-competitive. It wouldn't be the first time someone tries dirty tricks in a competition...

If this is a replica town, then I would suggest I would have no ethical qualms about showing everything as is on the grave markers. You don't seem to have any ethical qualms about using the likeness of the young lady in the image...

However, there could be legal / commercial issues involved. You appear to be on private property when you took this pictures, so there could be some legal restrictions on the use of any images taken on the property (usually restricted to commercial use / licensing issues).

Thank you for your wisdom, Manfred. It is much appreciated.
I'll just keep taking photos and try not to worry about the "legalities" too much.
But I thought I would float this "comment" before a wider audience and see if anyone else had come across it before.

[Mike Buckley]

The only ethical or privacy issue I can think of would apply perhaps to the gravestone of a famous person or the gravestone of a person strongly connected to a famous person. Wide distribution of an image of such a gravestone on the Internet could conceivably attract a lot of people to visit the site and that could present a management issue for the people running the cemetery.

It's interesting to me that cultures vary in their attitude toward cemeteries. As an example, in America a cemetery is to be respected as a solemn place yet in Mexico families and entire communities party at cemeteries including the widespread use of alcohol, music and costumes during festivities commemorating the Day of the Dead. At the larger cemeteries in large Mexican towns, temporary carnivals are set up at the entrance to the cemetery during Day of the Dead celebrations.

[RBSinTo]

Martin,
This is indeed, a beautifully composed image.
As for the headstones, because this is a replica village, it is possible that the headstones were made especially for it, and don't even represent actual deceased persons. I assume you could check if that was the case.
In any event, I agree that removing the names would be detrimental to the picture.
I suppose you could alter the names, but based on the dates of death, I don't even see the point.
Best not to worry, and just enjoy the image and the success it brings you.
Robert

[John 2]

I wouldn't change anything in this image. It's a an excellent composition and nothing in it is disrespectful. The only possible objection might be in the use of the location per se. We have had similar issues in recent months in the UK. The port of Whitby in Yorkshire has literary associations with Bram Stoker's Dracula. Consequently it has become the location for an annual Goth weekend. It didn't take long before hoards of photographers also began to descend in their hundreds and the graveyard up on the cliff became a favourite shooting location. The local Vicar has now put a stop to its use but more because it is hallowed ground rather than because of what might be exposed on individual grave stones. In your case, it sounds as if the location is part of what is otherwise a tourist attraction and I can't see a problem.

[Dave Humphries]

My thoughts are that surely the information on gravestones is a matter of 'public record' anyway, so that (in my mind) dispenses with the privacy angle.

The births/marriages/deaths will very likely be recorded in a publically accessible register somewhere else anyway, quite apart from the fact that they've been on a tombstones for decades/centuries for anyone passing by to read and record.

Regarding the ethics - for the families involved, that information was put there, in whatever level of detail, for generations to come to read.

So really, the only issue I see as being pertinent is the current landlord's views on photography and reproduction of images taken on their property.

Nearly forgot to compliment you on a great image Martin.

No, it would be silly to alter the text in any way.

[TonyW]

These are all real people - my wife did a quick search for records.

As others have said, this is all public information and especially with the passage of time there is no need to hide it and there is nothing controversial there. I would leave it.

And it is a good image.

[Wandjina]

These are all real people - my wife did a quick search for records.

As others have said, this is all public information and especially with the passage of time there is no need to hide it and there is nothing controversial there. I would leave it.

And it is a good image.

Thanks Tony

[FootLoose]

Laws in Australia may be different to other countries'. There is mention here about seeking permission from councils before taking photographs in cemeteries and other places.

http://www.artslaw.com.au/articles/e...in-the-street/

[Shadowman]

Nicely captured image. I don't think the names need to be cloned out, however the dates and names create a connection with the young woman, her clothes are possibly from that era and there seems to be an implied connection with the people buried in the plot.

[Wandjina]

Laws in Australia may be different to other countries'. There is mention here about seeking permission from councils before taking photographs in cemeteries and other places.

http://www.artslaw.com.au/articles/e...in-the-street/

Thanks Greg. That is a really interesting article. It is a wonder we are allowed to photograph anything in this "nanny" state. *laughs*

[Barbara Ponder]

Very nice photo! I think the names look fine as is. Is the suggestion to make them unreadable based on ethics or a photographic goal? I ask because I've never heard of any ethical concerns regarding gravestones.

Mike, my father was a Judge and I remember many years ago a court case of a family suing a film company. The jest of the suit, family goes to movie and in the movie a graveyard scene showing headstone of a deceased family member.(fairly recently deceased) Family is "traumatized" seeing this and sues film company,director, producer etc. Seems the filmmaker just went to a cemetery and filmed without getting permission. It was not a criminal charge but more a civil one. The juror awarded the family millions.

[Wandjina]

Mike, my father was a Judge and I remember many years ago a court case of a family suing a film company. The jest of the suit, family goes to movie and in the movie a graveyard scene showing headstone of a deceased family member.(fairly recently deceased) Family is "traumatized" seeing this and sues film company,director, producer etc. Seems the filmmaker just went to a cemetery and filmed without getting permission. It was not a criminal charge but more a civil one. The juror awarded the family millions.

...we are not as litigious here, in Australia, as they are in the USA, but we are getting there!

[IzzieK]

...
It's interesting to me that cultures vary in their attitude toward cemeteries. As an example, in America a cemetery is to be respected as a solemn place yet in Mexico families and entire communities party at cemeteries including the widespread use of alcohol, music and costumes during festivities commemorating the Day of the Dead. At the larger cemeteries in large Mexican towns, temporary carnivals are set up at the entrance to the cemetery during Day of the Dead celebrations.

My grandparents on my mother's side are Latinos. When we were young, we do the same in our cemetery -- have a party after being there for over a day and half cleaning our particular place (October 31st). We kids sleep at the cemetery overnight and the other adults will come the next day (Todos los Santos) to inspect what we did the night before...this is when we start praying after they have settled down. Some friends passed by and they have a drink...etc., etc. It is a kind of culture thing, banners, bright lights and everything...)

Anyway, moving on, my opinion is the same as Manfred -- do not remove anything. It is a good period representation shot and blurring the names will degrade the image. If you do not win, then you have fun anyway...

[Dave Humphries]

In response to the issue of causing upset to relatives of the deceased by the context created by a 'work of art' that includes a gravestone, I personally would be guided by the 'would I be offended if it were me' rule.

In other words, if those were my relatives names on that gravestone (in Martin's picture), would this image cause me or my family any upset - and my answer here would be 'no'.

If the 'work of art' were something with satanic, vampire or of similar context, then the answer might well be 'yes', particularly if the work (be it still image or video/movie) implied a connection to my family, either as victims or participant (e.g. imagine a mocked up movie scene of someone apparently rising from my families grave).

Personally, I cannot see myself shooting an image or movie that falls in to the latter category, but hope that if I ever do, I would remember my 'rule' and take steps to avoid potential upset, be that fictionalising names (not without risk!) or other means. Probably best I just avoid that side of the genre, since I'm not someone that seeks to shock or offend. In fact I don't even shoot wildlife in cemeteries, for fear of being challenged and being without the permission from someone in authority.

[Mike Buckley]

The juror awarded the family millions.

I'm not surprised and I'll leave it at that.