Grainy when shooting in fog/deer

[JwPhotography]

Hay guys and girls,

I was out shooting the other day with my Nikon D750 (new to me) and I was trying to capture Deer at the early hours and I got some fantastic shots, but some of my shots just before the sun rose are very grainy.... It wasn't something I really noticed until I got my pics back on the big screen but I was rather frustrated. There was fog, not thick but very prominent, but even when close to the Deer it still occurred.

So I was looking for some advice in what I may have done wrong!!! I was shooting on Aperture priority with a Nikon 55-300mm lens, no tripod as obviously the deer were moving but could that be the reason why? Although there's no blur just grain... I was also switching between manual and auto focus and have the same on both shots. The best shots I got were later on when the sun was up a lot higher and then no grain occurred.

All this puzzled me, I'm by no means a pro but was just wondering for some helpful advice.

Thank you all

James

[rachel]

When you use AP does your camera autoselect ISO? If it autoselected for pre-dawn conditions it's likely to have picked a high ISO that could be the reason for the grainy appearance.

I'm assuming you weren't using flash - I only mention it because I've had some v strange results taking photos in fog in the dark - the flash seems to reflect off droplets of water and it looks like snowflakes. Too big to be considered grainy though I think.

[Mike Buckley]

Welcome to CiC, James!

You will receive more effective advice if you post an example that concerns you in the thread. Considering that your issue is noise, consider posting a portion of the image displayed at 100%.

If you update your personal profile to include the Location (it will be displayed on the left side of each post), that information will also be helpful in certain situations.

[DanK]

It's usually either underexposure or high ISO. Please post an example photo with exif information.

[NorthernFocus]

Based on your description of shooting conditions and the performance of that camera, it was either extremely high ISO or underexposed as DanK said. If you want meaningful feedback you need to provide the EXIF data and preferably the image in question.

[JwPhotography]

Thank you all for your reply, as asked a picture below and will attach a closer one, I have picked a picture not to far away but when the fog was more so at its worst... as it got thinner this still occurred, but when the sun was high as I say it disappeared. The ISO was set on 200, this did occur to me and I changed it form time to time.

James

[JwPhotography]

Thank you all for your reply, as asked a picture below and will attach a closer one, I have picked a picture not to far away but when the fog was more so at its worst... as it got thinner this still occurred, but when the sun was high as I say it disappeared. The ISO was set on 200, this did occur to me and I changed it form time to time.

James

[xpatUSA]

Based on your description of shooting conditions and the performance of that camera, it was either extremely high ISO or underexposed as DanK said. If you want meaningful feedback you need to provide the EXIF data and preferably the image in question.

Jim, welcome,

When you post an image, please ensure that it was not "saved for the web" which can strip the Exif and other data from the image file header.

Glurk! While I was typing this, an image appeared in the OP: I'll download it and take a look . . . .

. . . . it was shot at ISO 6400, f/5.6 and 1/125sec. Focal length: 270mm.

The "grain" is read noise, possibly smoothed out in-camera by Nikon for that high of an ISO; Nikon owners can tell you more. ISO 6400 means the sensor was only able to capture 1/32 of the scene's light compared with ISO 200; basically your image was 5 stops under-exposed, in spite of what the metering said and in spite of what the amplification did to your image after it left the sensor. Modern cameras work wonders with such low exposures during writing to the card and in their proprietary converters but, in the end, what you get is unavoidably high read noise, put simply.

Here's your shot de-smoothed by Unsharp Mask, amount 50, 1.0 pixel radius:




Gives you an idea how the image might have looked without all that fancy trickery down stream of the sensor

[xpatUSA]

Thank you all for your reply, as asked a picture below and will attach a closer one, I have picked a picture not to far away but when the fog was more so at its worst... as it got thinner this still occurred, but when the sun was high as I say it disappeared. The ISO was set on 200, this did occur to me and I changed it form time to time.

James

Yes, in the above shot the ISO was 6400 according to the EXIF, not 200.

[dje]

James I think everything is working against you in this shot :

High ISO (6400) will give some noise (grain) although this is only part of the problem (I can use my D610, which is similar in performance to your D750, comfortably up to ISO3200 without any problem although it does need some noise reduction).

The first shot in particular is heavily cropped

It's likely you haven't achieved good sharp focus probably because of the low light

The lighting of the subject is poor which leads to a lack of definition. The fog wouldn't help here either.

If the 55-300 lens is the Nikon kit lens, this wouldn't give particularly good sharpness either. Also it would be a DX lens so the camera would be in DX crop mode so you would be losing pixels with this.

I think you were perhaps expecting too much in these light conditions

Dave

[DanK]

James I think everything is working against you in this shot :

High ISO (6400) will give some noise (grain) although this is only part of the problem (I can use my D610, which is similar in performance to your D750, comfortably up to ISO3200 without any problem although it does need some noise reduction).

The first shot in particular is heavily cropped

It's likely you haven't achieved good sharp focus probably because of the low light

The lighting of the subject is poor which leads to a lack of definition. The fog wouldn't help here either.

If the 55-300 lens is the Nikon kit lens, this wouldn't give particularly good sharpness either. Also it would be a DX lens so the camera would be in DX crop mode so you would be losing pixels with this.

I think you were perhaps expecting too much in these light conditions

Dave

I think it is worth separating two very different things: sharpness and noise. The two are not related. The noise in the image is not caused by a less-than-sharp lens, the fog, or poor focus.

I think the two main factors that explain this are the high ISO and the cropping. Also, while the image is not underexposed--at least as posted--but there was room to expose quite a bit more without clipping, which would have increased the signal/noise ratio and decreased the appearance of noise. In addition, the fog lessens detail, which will make the noise more apparent visually.

It makes perfect sense that the images taken under bright light would look better.

James, in case you are new to this: when you increase the ISO in the camera, all you are doing is amplifying the signal. The sensor itself doesn't become more sensitive. when you amplify the signal, you amplify the noise as well. The result of boosting ISO is therefore to increase the amount of noise. This is why Ted referred to your image as underexposed.

[dje]

The noise in the image is not caused by a less-than-sharp lens, the fog, or poor focus.

Dan I wasn't suggesting that this was the case, merely saying that as well as noise, the image is degraded by lack of sharpness.

Dave

[Mike Buckley]

The noise in the image is not caused by...poor focus.

True. However, it might be helpful for the OP to appreciate that areas of an image that are out of focus, even when that is intentional, will tend to display noise depending on the situation even when the areas that are in focus do not display it.

[DanK]

Dave and Mike,

Thanks. We are on the same page. I just didn't want the OP to confuse the two issues.

Dan

[Loose Canon]

It's usually either underexposure or high ISO. Please post an example photo with exif information.

Actually in this case it is both.

James your shot is vastly underexposed (close to three stops) and at that ISO value that is a huge can’t do! Cropping exacerbates the issue, but here you lost it in the field before you ever got it to a computer.

Here is the histogram from the full shot of the two animals.



When shooting at high ISO values it is imperative that you push the exposure to the right, even over exposing (clipping) a bit and pulling it back down in post. I’m getting here that you were unaware you were shooting at ISO 6400 at the time.

This is a difficult scene. I’m seeing a shutter of 1/125th and I’m assuming your lens was wide open. Much slower shutter would have proved problematic by being subject to motion blur. I’m also seeing an “auto” setting used but not which one. So choices have to be made and “auto” has to be overridden either using exposure compensation or going manual.

I don’t shoot Nikon but I would assume that using good technique your D750 could easily handle ISO 6400 being a full frame. But key here is the “using good technique” part.

This was shot at ISO 8000. F/2.8. 1/60th shutter. I considered it an extreme low-light situation (at least for me). I exposed the snot out of it in-camera and brought it back in post. Used some noise reduction on the background, but the face/hand/hair, jacket, and parts of the trombone had no noise reduction applied.



Shadow and dark areas are where noise will rear its head the worst, which is why one needs to keep the exposure up to get a usable shot at high ISO.

[IzzieK]

It's usually either underexposure or high ISO. Please post an example photo with exif information.

His EXIF are as follows:

Date Time Original	2015:10:11 15:46:50
Exposure Time	1/125
F Number	f / 5.60
Exposure Program	Not defined
ISO Speed Ratings	6400
Metering Mode	Pattern
Flash	Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length	270mm

White Balance	Auto white balance
Make	NIKON CORPORATION
Model	NIKON D750
LensInfo	550/10 3000/10 45/10 56/10
Lens	55.0-300.0 mm f/4.5-5.6

[NorthernFocus]

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that noise is exacerbated if shooting jpeg. This due to sharpening being applied during the jpeg conversion which is indiscriminate and sharpens noise along with the rest.

[rtbaum]

I use a D750 and just did a little test on my wife (sitting unsuspecting, watching TV). I shot in low light at 6400 iso and observed similar noise when I cropped to 100%. I suspect that the OP may have cropped in a similar fashion...perchance shooting in crop mode may have been enough to make the noise apparent. I shot in Raw and noise reduction did a nice job of cleaning things up

[JwPhotography]

Hay Its been very interesting reading all your reply's,

Thank you, Ted, Dave, Dan Koretz, Mike, Terry, Dan (the other one) and Randy.

I wasn't aware the ISO was this high, and feel that could be the main problem. I understand using a cropped lens is not the best option, but until funds come in it might have to do. The pic I showed is in Jpeg but have the same pic in RAW and its the same out come thought it would just be easier to post the Jpeg version.

It seem all of you are prodding the same pig here and saying that I'm underexposed (close to three stops). Now the question is if I was to go shoot the same subject again in exactly the same condition what set up would I need...??? As i'm fairly new to this game I understand the concept of three stops but sometimes struggle to process that through this brain and on to the camera.

Thank you all very much for you help.

James

[IzzieK]

James, I understand how you feel. I think all of us knows how you feel...we have to! We all came from the same mold. -- meaning we all have to start somewhere. I have been taking snapshots for a long time until someone here from CiC mentioned Exposure Triangle. As I am very fond of "researching" every phrase that I do not understand fully, there was this miracle phrase that I googled and lo and behold! there are so much information about it for me to choose which version of the explanation I can understand and practice. Do the same to yourself -- google "Exposure Triangle". It is the relationship of ISO, Shutter Speed and Aperture and that extra Exposure Compensation button added for good measure that will shorten your learning experience.

And don't forget to have fun...