What can I improve?

[TaylorM]

Hello everyone,

I am hoping for some insight into how I can improve my photography. I have been seriously practicing photography for the last year or so. When I am not out shooting I am reading articles from this site as well as others trying to learn as much as I can. More recently, I feel like I am becoming technically proficient with my photography equipment.

I recently discovered the mini competitions and entered three to see how people liked my work. I was surprised at how low my photos were ranked:

-5th place in competition #2206 (Mini Competition #2206) - Mount Timpanogos Sunset





-Shared 4th in #2216 (Mini Competition #2216) - Beach Sunset




-Shared 5th in #2218 (Mini Competition #2218) - Looking into the Bird's Nest




I know that my rankings are not too bad but I feel like I am missing something and that I may be able to improve some aspect of my photography in order to create more compelling photographs. Just to be absolutely clear, I am not interested in knowing how I can place higher in competitions, but how I can capture exciting nature and landscape scenery more effectively.

So, to wrap things up I am asking three different things:
1. Is there anything I am not getting right technically (lighting, noise, focus, etc.)
2. Is there anything I am missing artistically (composition, colors, subjects, etc.)
3. Are there things I am already doing right?

I look forward to reading the responses from the community.

Thanks,
TaylorM

[Manfred M]

I hope you don't mind, but I inserted the links to the images into your post.

It's a bit of a challenge to get people to follow the links to look at the images, so this might have a better chance of getting you the feedback you are looking for.

Manfred

[dje]

The thing is Taylor, these are perfectly good images. I particularly like your Beach Sunset shot. The Birds Nest shot is a good capture but as an image it doesn't really stand out for me.

If it's feedback you are after, you are probably better off posting images for cc rather than entering mini-comps. The comps are fine for getting an idea of what others think but you are in a contest with a big variety of images and the voting is a very personal thing. Some people will vote for one image only, others will vote for several. I wouldn't place too much significance on "placing".

From a technical point of view, I'd watch your sharpening. The images look a little soft to me.

Dave

[Shadowman]

5th place isn't so bad especially when you were only 3 points from the winner, sometimes the voters just have a preference to a particular style of photography, doesn't mean you have to change your style to fit the bill; although in some prize winning contests you almost have to. Thing about this forum, you'll never really be able to pinpoint the voters criteria because you don't know who the voters are, so just keep working at your craft and see where it takes you.

[William W]

. . . If it's feedback you are after, you are probably better off posting images for cc rather than entering mini-comps.

+1

ww

[TaylorM]

Big thanks GrumpyDiver, I agree that it is easier to critique the images here.

dje, I have heard almost your exact wording before when showing friends or family some of my photos ("[its] a good capture but as an image it doesn't really stand out for me."). Can you add anything as to why the images don't stand out? Are they lacking anything in particular? I have been learning that creativity is a difficult thing to pinpoint and it might be impossible to give me any answer or advice as a result. However, anything you can expand on would be appreciated!

Sharpness is extremely difficult to get right. I used a tripod for both sunset images (with image stabilization off). In the Timpanogos sunset image I even used the Canon 6D's live view zoom mode and manual focus to get as much in focus as I possible could. In post processing I used Adobe's camera raw tool to bump the sharpness up (I increased the amount slider from 25 to 74). Are there any other tricks you know of to increase sharpness?

Thanks for the exceptional advice shadowman, sometimes you really do have to know your audience. One thing I find extremely difficult is to put myself out there and have my work reviewed by others. It is even harder when I don't know who my audience is. I feel like it is too easy to simply show my work to those I know will approve of it. I was hoping for a completely random crowd so I could have my work judged by merit alone and not for any social reasons.

[William W]

. . .
I am hoping for some insight into how I can improve my photography. . . I am asking three different things:
1. Is there anything I am not getting right technically (lighting, noise, focus, etc.)
2. Is there anything I am missing artistically (composition, colors, subjects, etc.)
3. Are there things I am already doing right?

Getting the show on the road - asking four things:

1. What are the Shooting Specs for Image "Mount Timpanogos Sunset"

Specifically: Camera; Lens; Shutter Speed; Aperture; ISO; Hand-Held/Tripod/Counter-weighted?; Mirror-up technique?; Remote release?; Image Stabilization?; Filters used?; Exposure Bracketing?; File Capture type; Post production, please supply an overview; AND any other relevant technical details.

2. What was the Shooting Scenario for Image "Mount Timpanogos Sunset"

Specifically: time of day and outline of general weather conditions.

3. Please post a copy of the JPEG SOOC, (i.e. before the Post Production)

4. Please post an higher resolution copy of the image after post production WITH FULL EXIF DATA included in the image file.

Detailed attention to the above, will aid greatly in respect of the supply of any detailed critique of the image.

WW

[kdoc856]

Hey, Taylor

Those shots are each well done, and more than proficient. You clearly have a photographer's eye for composition and opportunity.

Your progress appears to have advanced to the point that most of your improvements will now become "subtleties"- fine tuning that is incremental but very rewarding, and almost always originates from the input of more experienced (not necessarily "better") photographers.

This forum is a great place to float an image you're not sure about, or would like to improve if possible, or are just flat out happy to share with others who are also happy for you. I totally agree you will grow exponentially by regularly posting some shots for C&C.

Having said that, I also enter the comps from time to time just to see if anyone else appreciates something I liked or newly tried out. But it's extremely subjective, so there's really nothing specifically to be learned doing that.

Hope to see so posts from you soon. I think you are doing really well.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Taylor,

First off; a warm welcome to the CiC forums from me.

You may find the first post in this thread useful:
How to Get Effective Feedback for your Posted Images

Could you do us a favour please?
Could you click Settings (right at the top),
then Edit Profile (on left)
and put your first name (Taylor?) in the Real Name field
and where you are (roughly) in the Location field,
then click the Save Changes button below and to right,
this helps everyone give you more personal and relevant answers - thanks in advance.


I dealt with a similar 'Mini Comp performance' query to yours from another new member a day or so ago, I gave them the same answer folks have given you.


I also agree with Dave, these are appearing soft - and I know why - you have uploaded images that are 'too large' to TinyPic, so they have downsized them (which makes 'em soft).

Best practice is for you to downsize them so that the height is never more than 1000 px and width (if landscape), is never more than 1600 px. After you downsize, apply some output sharpening using UnSharp Mask with an Amount of 100%, Radius of 0.3 px (yes; nought point 3) and a Threshold of 1. Then 'Save As' a different file name, to avoid overwriting your saved full size image. Obviously you upload the smaller one to TinyPic, which then won't change it and we'll see them nice'n'sharp.

For different images, those USM values may need tweaking if they're too much or not enough, but those values are a good starting point.

Cheers, Dave

[Manfred M]

Let me do a minor bit of adjustment in ACR and compare your image versus my tweak (in ACR / Photoshop CC 2015)

Here is the original:




Here is my tweak:


Do you notice any difference?



What I did in ACR:

In the Basic Tab:

Highlights -16 (to bring out a bit more detail in the clouds)
Shadows +33 (to open up the shadows / shadow detail a bit more)
Whites +61 (set the white point). This along with the black point set give the image more "pop".
Blacks +16 (set the black point)
Clarity +8 (slight boost to the colours)
Vibrance +8 (slight boost to the colours other than the reds / oranges)

Tone Curve Tab:

Point Tab - Set to Medium Contrast - (increase image contrast a bit)

Effects Tab:

Dehaze +8 (remove some of the impact of the haze in the shot)

Post Crop Vignetting (add a slight vignette to direct the viewer's eyes away from the edges of the image)
Style Highest Priority
Amount -13

In Photoshop:

Filter tab (sharpening is always done at 100% size and this reduces the "softness" in the image)
Select "Unsharp Mask" in the dropdown box
Amount 100%
Radius 1.0 pixels
Threshold 0

[flashback]

Taylor,
As you are asking, in effect, why don't people seem to like my/these images, let me make a few comments.

#1 Seems to lack 'punch'. The sky, mountains and foliage are bland. The view itself seems 'cramped', in that I would want to see more of the vista (or conversely, much less). In other words, to my mind it's a bit of a 'scenic overlook' snapshot.

#2 The sun, colors and silhouette of the trees are cool, but for it to work for me I would want to see the entire trees, right down to the beach. Otherwise it's a couple of tree tops backlight by a not-that-spectatular sunset.

#3 Kind of like a Google Earth shot. As the chicks appear to be fairly calm and hidden it's a hard image to see at first glance, and having glanced it one has to ask...'so what am I supposed to be looking at?' I think the idea of that perspective could be potentially interesting, you just have to find the right particular situation in which to apply it.

As for the mini-comps, there appears to be no logic as to what will win in any given mini-comp. But I can tell you that quite often, it's babies, bugs or birds that seem to garner the better numbers. Also highly HDR closeup portraits, attractive people and babies, bugs or birds (did I mention them already ;-)

Shoot for what pleases you. It's nice to know others appreciate your work/view/vision but in the end, if you don't enjoy your images then what's the point.

[William W]

. . . these are appearing soft - and I know why - you have uploaded images that are 'too large' to TinyPic, so they have downsized them (which makes 'em soft). . .

That's part of one my questions answered, thank you.

WW

[dje]

dje, I have heard almost your exact wording before when showing friends or family some of my photos ("[its] a good capture but as an image it doesn't really stand out for me."). Can you add anything as to why the images don't stand out? Are they lacking anything in particular? I have been learning that creativity is a difficult thing to pinpoint and it might be impossible to give me any answer or advice as a result. However, anything you can expand on would be appreciated!

Sharpness is extremely difficult to get right. I used a tripod for both sunset images (with image stabilization off). In the Timpanogos sunset image I even used the Canon 6D's live view zoom mode and manual focus to get as much in focus as I possible could. In post processing I used Adobe's camera raw tool to bump the sharpness up (I increased the amount slider from 25 to 74). Are there any other tricks you know of to increase sharpness?

Taylor when I talked about the image not standing out, I was referring specifically to the third shot, the birds nest. I think the problem with this shot is that the branches lead the eye down to the centre but when we get there, there is nothing terribly exciting to see. If I look closely, I can see some chicks but can't see much detail of them. But you are right of course, creativity is a difficult thing to pinpoint.

As for focus and sharpening, I often use the same technique to get focus ie manual in live view mode (zoomed in). I don't know what aperture you used but something around the f/11 mark should give good Depth of Filed for landscape shots. I would usually focus on that part of the image I want to have the best focus.

With sharpening in Camera RAW, I usually run the Detail slider at about 75 with masking about 25, radius 0.7 and amount about 50 (but depends on image). You also need to do output sharpening after you've finished editing and downsized for web display.

Dave

[TaylorM]

Thank you all for the feedback, all of these responses have really given me a lot to think about! I have updated my profile and am excited to be part of the community. Thanks for the kind words kdoc856.

Dave Humphries, that tip about uploading is really good to know. I feel like there are always a hundred ways to screw up a photo before it reaches your audience .

GrumpyDiver, that editing in Camera Raw is amazing. I didn't realize you could make so many changes and have it still look good. I feel like the more I play with the images the more surreal they get until I can't even recognize the scene I was trying to shoot. Thank you as well for posting your adjustments. I've used about 25% of the settings you mentioned, I am excited to experiment with the others!

William W, here are the shooting specs for Mount Timpanogos Sunset:
- Camera: Canon 6D
- Lens: Canon EF 70-200mm F4L (@ 70mm)
- Shutter Speed: 1/20 sec
- Aperture: f/8
- ISO: 50
- Used a tripod
- Used mirror lock-up and a remote
- Image stabilization turned off
- I used a circular polarizer (full polarization)
- No exposure bracketing (single shot)
- RAW image captured
- Post production: ACR (Photoshop CC)
-> Basic tab [Exposure +0.15, contrast +10, clarity +25, saturation +14]
-> Detail tab [sharpening +49 (25 to 74)]
-> HSL/Grayscale tab [Reds -58, oranges -9, yellows +24, greens +22]
-> Lens correction tab [Lens distortion correction enabled]
-> Effects tab [Vignetting -29]

The shooting scenario was a nice calm day (no wind) about 30 minutes before the sun dropped below the horizon. The air was mostly clear (a little haze) and it had rained a few days prior.

Here is a link to a zip file containing the JPEG I uploaded and the CR2 file directly from my camera. I'll delete the link to dropbox after a few days. I don't know what a JPEG SOOC is ...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cnl3zckf6...Forum.zip?dl=0

Finally, thanks to flashback for the feedback. This is the hardest feedback to get but something that I think I will really be able to use in the future as I continue to work on my composition technique. Also, after looking at the mini comps in more depth it does seem to be completely random as to which shots get voted up and which don't.

[TaylorM]

Thanks Dave, I think you hit it right on the head. If the birds were more colorful or if there was something more interesting going on I agree this composition would be a lot stronger. I think that is why landscape and nature photography is so appealing to me. Not only do you need to have a strong mastery of your equipment, you need to have a little luck to get that perfect shot!

[DanK]

I think there are three answers.

The first has been given. Competitions aren't a good place to get critiques unless you pick ones where judges explain their reasoning.

The second is that there are some things you can do to improve the images. Two people pointed out that the first lacked pop, and Manfred gave you a good set of basic edits that very much improved it in that respect. Most of the things Manfred used I would consider basic editing tools--tonality adjustments, clarity and vibrance, and sharpening. In my opinion, the third image suffers from bad framing. There is too much irrelevant stuff around the nest, the positioning of the nest seems off, and the foreground areas are badly out of focus, which almost always detracts. A tighter crop or longer focal length would have given you a better framing.

Third, if you are going to enter competitions, you need to get used to losing, unless you are way better than I am at this. I enter quite a few competitions, although not on this forum. I lose many and I win some, and when I do win, I usually end up toward the bottom end of the winning group. Often that is because there are images that are clearly better than mine.Sometimes it's simply a matter of taste. Judges differ. Sometimes a judge will find a flaw in one of mine that I missed.

I'll give you an example. A number of years ago, I entered this image in a local competition:



I thought the image was great, and I had it hanging on my wall. The judge got to it, turned to the group, and asked: 'why did I mark this one down? What's wrong with it?' Immediately, someone piped up: 'the black spot in the middle.' The judge replied something like 'exactly. It creates an imbalance. If the flower had been positioned a bit differently, this wouldn't have been a problem.' He was right, of course. I had just missed it.

[William W]

Taylor,

Thank you for the prompt response.

“JPEG SOOC” is JPEG (Straight Out Of Camera). The active link to the drop box will be fine, thank you. If you could leave it active until Tuesday next week that would be very good as I have just left for a three day job and will have intermittent web access.

Prima facie - I have issue with the shutter speed used. Although more detailed investigation is required to verify my concern (and you can do that by critically interrogating the image file), 1/20s is very dangerous to use for a tree, shrub and long grass landscape. Although there might not have been any wind at the Camera Viewpoint that does not dismiss the possibility of breeze enough to create SUBJECT MOVEMENT on the tree tops or nearer ground level at that far away distance. I uploaded and up-scaled then increased acutance of the small res image and I noted evidence of POSSIBLE Subject Movement - that was one prompt for my asking you for all the technical details. However this issue might be explained by the details of Dave Humphries’ Post #9.

Whilst it is possible that sometimes any softness which is created by Subject Movement might be masked by later Post Production Editing (for example the crispness which Manfred has extruded), it is nonetheless Best Technical Practice to choose to use Shutter Speeds which don’t place one in the position of requiring to “fix it up in post-production”. As for a specific example - there is plenty of scope on an EOS 6D to use ISO 200 or ISO400 for that particular shot, which would have got you to 1/80s or 1/160s and that's a big difference if there was a slight breeze at 20mtrs altitude.

That’s all the critique, for the moment.

***

another 2 questions for you, please -

Did you have a Lens Hood on?
Is the CPL "good quality"?

WW

[Manfred M]

Most of the things Manfred used I would consider basic editing tools--tonality adjustments, clarity and vibrance, and sharpening.

Exactly! These types of adjustments are something I do 100% of the time when I work an image. The actual parameters vary by image and I may throw more or less adjustments into the blend. This happens for both raw and jpegs.

[TaylorM]

Thanks for the story DanK. It is amazing how our eyes might see a completely different shot than someone else! That is a beautiful shot of the flower you posted and before I read the rest of your comment I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. When you mentioned the black spot I took a second look and it became the main thing I saw. Attention to the finest details (even those in plain sight), can really make or break a compelling shot.

William W, the Canon 6D does have really good ISO performance, I shouldn't be afraid to bump it up a little . I'll leave the link up for a while, probably a couple weeks at least.

In answer to your two questions:
1. Yes, I did have a lens hood on. It is the stock lens hood that comes with the 70-200mm f4L.
2. This is the CPL I used: [B+W 67mm Kaesemann Circular Polarizer with Multi-Resistant Coating]
http://www.amazon.com/Kaesemann-Circ.../dp/B0000BZL83

[William W]

. . . 1. Yes, I did have a lens hood on. It is the stock lens hood that comes with the 70-200mm f4L.
2. This is the CPL I used: [B+W 67mm Kaesemann Circular Polarizer with Multi-Resistant Coating]

Ta.