Editing process...of a cabin in Pere Marquette, Illinois for C&C

[IzzieK]

OK...so there was a misunderstanding of Jeffrey's statement about processing in Black and White on my part because I thought it was removing all colours that one can see objectively on how to process a colour image then convert them to Black and White...so I thought this is what I am going to do using both Photoshop CS6 and then Nik's...

1 Original shot -- a bit lopsided ...



2 so I straightened it up and brightened and put a bit of contrast, a bit of structure in Viveza



3 After Tonal Contrast and warming up the shot with Brilliance and Warmth in Color Efex



4 To prepare for the Black and White 1st processing, I added more colour and moved more sliders to strengthen the image. Did I olverdid this? Yes to a full extent...because I like changing the way I think and I decided to think the other way than how I was used to ... unless you change my mind again, I am flexible...



5 Back to Photoshop, I did Refined Edges then hold down Ctrl/Shift + I to revert to the background then did a slight Gaussian Blur, strengthened more colours...



6 Now ready for Silver Efex for conversion, moved a few more sliders and this is the result.



Tell me if I overdid my processing or have I forgotten to do anything or should I have made it much easier if I just load image #2 straight to Silver Efex -- I used to just do Viveza then straight to Silver Efex...but I decided not to this time around...How would you do yours?

Thanks...for any comment or critiques I will get from you members passing by. I appreciate each of them very much.

Cheers.....Izzie

[Shadowman]

The color version is good but it may not have been a good candidate for mono conversion. The cabin is a bit too close to the background woodlands so there really isn't any separation between the regions. The textures are partially lost in the patterns and shadows and it is a very busy scene. I would go for a tighter closeup of some portions of the house and repeat your processing steps. A good example would be the window or the staircase or just crop out most of the woodlands. I'm not sure if the color enhancements are necessary. Nice effort.

[Jeff Blakemore]

Hi Izzie! I completely agree with John. This one may not be the best choice for a conversion.

IMO, bumping the saturation a bit can often help when you start to convert, but it may not be necessary to push it quite so much. But, if you plan to ONLY have a BW final, then in most cases it may not hurt either. When I am converting I usually keep in mind that I would like to have a nice color version of the shot also, but I have been known to oversaturate. I try not to so much now. What can I say? I like bright, vivid colors.

I grabbed your straightened version and did a quick and dirty conversion myself. Again, it's pretty busy overall but see what you think.

First, I used ColorEfex. I have a crazy amount of recipes set up, but I started from scratch here. Here are the filters I stacked for this round"

1. Detail Extraction - I boosted the extractor slider to 28%, contrast to 17%, and pulled saturation to 0%

2. Foliage - Method 3, Enhance 84%

3. Pro Contrast - Color cast and Dynamic set to 0, Contrast (middle slider) set to 18%

4. Darken/Lighten Center - Round shape, Center luminosity 0, Border Luminosity -70, Center size 85. I then placed the center between the top and bottom doors, right at the floor of the deck.

Then I clicked "ok" run the filter.


On the new layer output by ColorEfex, I then ran SilverEfex. Posting a screenshot of those settings here. I only used the "global adjustments".




And finally I applied a small amount of USM to the converted image. Since it was a small version from the post, I only applied amount: 25 with a radius of 1.0

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Izzie,

It's true the subject is not the most obvious choice for a mono conversion.

I was relieved to see you also cloned out the LPG tank as one of the first steps and it was done well.

One thing that surprised me was that was that as the shot was 'wonky', i.e. not shot level, instead of rotating to fix this, you seem to have 'warped' it straight, I wouldn't have thought of that, it probably has advantages with regard to not losing too much around the edges. My only thought is that if the problem was caused by a rotational error, wouldn't it be better to fix it the same way, rather than start messing with the geometry of things? Rhetorical question only.

There are a few lumps of foreground rockery that are just encroaching in to the lower edge of frame that I think I would also have cloned out, especially what looks like the top of a stone ball towards the centre right. There's also one straight, fairly bright, branch jutting in to right hand side near top corner that I find keeps attracting my attention, this could be toned down.

The work to blur the background is also well done, there's only one tiny area, on extreme left by the lamp, that I think I would have included in this.

That's as much as I feel able to contribute; hope it helps, Dave

After-thought: A shot when the foliage is green (e.g. in spring), might usefully give more natural separation of cabin (colour) from background - the only problem is that if there are leaves on the trees, it looks like almost the whole thing might be in shadow.

[Mike Buckley]

Izzie,

Considering that you are relatively new to making monochromes and that you have Google/Nik Silver Efex Pro, I recommend that you simply make your global adjustments with regard to overall contrast and sharpening in ACR/Photoshop the same as you would do when producing a color photo. Then open the image in Silver Efex Pro and attend to the monochrome details. In other words, I'm recommending that you skip Steps 2 through 5 except for the straightening as explained in your first post of the thread.

Using that workflow, you won't have to wonder how the changes you make to the color, saturation, etc affect the monochrome version. Instead, you can simply fine tune the adjustments to the monochrome version.

[Jeff Blakemore]

Here is another one of mine that I did a full conversion on. Now, I did a lot of fine adjustments here to get to the final conversion, but you can see how I try to maintain a usable image throughout the process. The first image is straight out of the camera. No adjustments at all. The second is after adjusting with ACR then running it through ColorEfex. Finally, SilverEfex and sharpening.

1.


2.


3.

[Manfred M]

Izzie - I would agree with what others have said. I thought I might comment on my B&W conversion process which is a bit different that what others do. I call it "early conversion", i.e. other than some fairly basic operations I do when I import a raw file (lens correction, sharpening, contrast, etc), I convert my image to B&W almost immediately and do virtually all of my edits on the B&W version.

My rationale is simple; I want to get the best B&W image I can, so I really don't care about how the image looks in colour, I don't care about white balance, which is something that does not matter at all in a B&W image; there can't be a colour cast in something that is purely different shades of gray. I do care about having a range of grays the go from white to black, so setting the black point and white point is even more important than doing so in colour work.

After opening the file in Photoshop, I convert to B&W using a B&W layer mask. At the conversion stage, I play with the colour sliders to get the image looking the way I want. I will sometimes open the image as a SmartObject and use the B&W functionality in the Camera Raw filter this way. This is somewhat similar to how I worked B&W film; filters were used to change the density of different areas of the image; for instance a yellow or red filter enhanced clouds, green improved the look of skin, etc. The main difference is that with film, I could only use one filter at a time. I Photoshop I can use as many as I want simultaneously.

All the other filters and pixel based editing comes later. As I use a non-destructive editing technique, the colour data is preserved, but I never actually look at it.

[Mike Buckley]

Izzie,

Notice that Manfred's post essentially recommends using the same approach as my post: go directly (almost immediately) to the monochrome version. You don't need to tweak the color version as Manfred's and Binnur's and perhaps others' monochrome photos prove.

[Jeff Blakemore]

Manfred and Mike, thank you both for that. And thanks for the very detailed description Manfred, I'm going to have to try this method too. I really like how it sounds.

[IzzieK]

The color version is good but it may not have been a good candidate for mono conversion. The cabin is a bit too close to the background woodlands so there really isn't any separation between the regions. The textures are partially lost in the patterns and shadows and it is a very busy scene. I would go for a tighter closeup of some portions of the house and repeat your processing steps. A good example would be the window or the staircase or just crop out most of the woodlands. I'm not sure if the color enhancements are necessary. Nice effort.

When I saw this it was the wooden textures and arrangements that attracted me. I took several shots of different angles and this is what I like most. I was disappointed by the busy-ness of the background so I thought it would just be a good candidate for a mono conversion. I tried to emphasize the structure itself by blurring out a little bit of the background...Hmm...so not everything that has a busy is a mono candidate...OK...thanks for the insight. I really appreciate it very much. Another day, another thought ...

[IzzieK]

This is great Jeffrey...I will copy and paste your response and do this in the morning and monitor the change, see how I go...I thought what you meant is to oversaturate so I played a bit (?!!) with it to the point of exaggeration. My favourite there is #3 but without the Brilliance and Warmth filter. I printed off a copy of it in a glossy paper (card ?) and was wanting to print off a B/W copy so I uploaded my version with the oversaturated version thinking it might help...

Thanks for your help...do appreciate it a lot...

Hi Izzie! I completely agree with John. This one may not be the best choice for a conversion.

IMO, bumping the saturation a bit can often help when you start to convert, but it may not be necessary to push it quite so much. But, if you plan to ONLY have a BW final, then in most cases it may not hurt either. When I am converting I usually keep in mind that I would like to have a nice color version of the shot also, but I have been known to oversaturate. I try not to so much now. What can I say? I like bright, vivid colors.

I grabbed your straightened version and did a quick and dirty conversion myself. Again, it's pretty busy overall but see what you think.

First, I used ColorEfex. I have a crazy amount of recipes set up, but I started from scratch here. Here are the filters I stacked for this round"

1. Detail Extraction - I boosted the extractor slider to 28%, contrast to 17%, and pulled saturation to 0%

2. Foliage - Method 3, Enhance 84%

3. Pro Contrast - Color cast and Dynamic set to 0, Contrast (middle slider) set to 18%

4. Darken/Lighten Center - Round shape, Center luminosity 0, Border Luminosity -70, Center size 85. I then placed the center between the top and bottom doors, right at the floor of the deck.

Then I clicked "ok" run the filter.


On the new layer output by ColorEfex, I then ran SilverEfex. Posting a screenshot of those settings here. I only used the "global adjustments".




And finally I applied a small amount of USM to the converted image. Since it was a small version from the post, I only applied amount: 25 with a radius of 1.0

[IzzieK]

Hi Izzie,

It's true the subject is not the most obvious choice for a mono conversion.

I was relieved to see you also cloned out the LPG tank as one of the first steps and it was done well.

Patted myself on the back for that too...sometimes I surprise myself...Ain't that Content Aware Path a great little thing to have or what? Now next to look at is the Content Aware Scaling...

One thing that surprised me was that was that as the shot was 'wonky', i.e. not shot level, instead of rotating to fix this, you seem to have 'warped' it straight, I wouldn't have thought of that, it probably has advantages with regard to not losing too much around the edges. My only thought is that if the problem was caused by a rotational error, wouldn't it be better to fix it the same way, rather than start messing with the geometry of things? Rhetorical question only.

Actually, I haven't given it a thought. I shot this with my 70-300mm and not with the UWA so I didn't think it will have any distortions at all, hence the use of the Perspective Tool instead after putting out a few guides from the ruler. I worked from there on each sides, making sure the straight legs of the house is straightened.

There are a few lumps of foreground rockery that are just encroaching in to the lower edge of frame that I think I would also have cloned out, especially what looks like the top of a stone ball towards the centre right. There's also one straight, fairly bright, branch jutting in to right hand side near top corner that I find keeps attracting my attention, this could be toned down.

Good eye! That was the top of another light like the one at the bottom of the left hand side of the image...I forgot about that as I was looking more of what I can do with the cabin...

The work to blur the background is also well done, there's only one tiny area, on extreme left by the lamp, that I think I would have included in this.

You are right...those little things I should remember to include in my combing out nuances...I will improve soon...especially getting rid of rubbish before I upload...thanks.

That's as much as I feel able to contribute; hope it helps, Dave

After-thought: A shot when the foliage is green (e.g. in spring), might usefully give more natural separation of cabin (colour) from background - the only problem is that if there are leaves on the trees, it looks like almost the whole thing might be in shadow.

We might be able to go back there again in another season as this place is only a river crossing away from us a bit...but we are definitely going back there this coming January/February period for the eagle hunt/photoshoot though I think I will want to reserve a one story cabin instead for the weekend...it is a beautiful place. Bill likes the place very much and had been to stay in one of those cabins with friends a long time ago before me.

Thanks for the help, Dave...appreciate it.

[IzzieK]

Izzie,

Considering that you are relatively new to making monochromes and that you have Google/Nik Silver Efex Pro, I recommend that you simply make your global adjustments with regard to overall contrast and sharpening in ACR/Photoshop the same as you would do when producing a color photo. Then open the image in Silver Efex Pro and attend to the monochrome details. In other words, I'm recommending that you skip Steps 2 through 5 except for the straightening as explained in your first post of the thread.

Using that workflow, you won't have to wonder how the changes you make to the color, saturation, etc affect the monochrome version. Instead, you can simply fine tune the adjustments to the monochrome version.

This was I usually do with my B/W process but I thought what Jeffrey was saying was to increase some structure and oversaturate to help with the conversion as lesser will not be as effective. I misunderstood. I did have to stand up from my perch several times to rest my eyes though...as I was getting a little bit impatient on how much I have to do to get it right...

Thanks as usual, Mike...You opinion matters much to me.

[IzzieK]

Good work, Jeff...now this is a more process to me...sorry I misunderstood again. I am not a first language English speaker nor thinker though I have been living here in the US for a good while hence I take some phrases literally...I have integrated but Skyping my children and grandchild from Australia sometimes a few times a month gets me back to thinking in Mandarin a bit until hubby straightens me out. He'll say "Speak English!!!" as if telling off our grandchild who mixes English and Mandarin and Cantonese in one sentence.

I have underlined what I think will be of help to my processing in your response.

Here is another one of mine that I did a full conversion on. Now, I did a lot of fine adjustments here to get to the final conversion, but you can see how I try to maintain a usable image throughout the process. The first image is straight out of the camera. No adjustments at all. The second is after adjusting with ACR then running it through ColorEfex. Finally, SilverEfex and sharpening.

1.


2.


3.

These are very good shots right from the camera itself. Processing brought out more of the textures...I think I can do that...I just know I place in our airport where I can find some rusty vehicles...

Thanks for the added support and insight. I do really appreciate it a lot.

[IzzieK]

Thanks for this response Manfred...you know how I feel about the neatness of your images, whether they are coloured or black and white. Just that at the time I wasn't much into the mono versions, still think they are neat. I follow your post, John (2) and others on the reasons when to convert an image to black and white and when not to but I seemed to have skipped some or forget some...you know those advice on "when the background is busy, convert it to mono.." I guess this did not work very well in this case...thanks for commenting and suggestions. I will put this in mind for next time...

Izzie - I would agree with what others have said. I thought I might comment on my B&W conversion process which is a bit different that what others do. I call it "early conversion", i.e. other than some fairly basic operations I do when I import a raw file (lens correction, sharpening, contrast, etc), I convert my image to B&W almost immediately and do virtually all of my edits on the B&W version.

My rationale is simple; I want to get the best B&W image I can, so I really don't care about how the image looks in colour, I don't care about white balance, which is something that does not matter at all in a B&W image; there can't be a colour cast in something that is purely different shades of gray. I do care about having a range of grays the go from white to black, so setting the black point and white point is even more important than doing so in colour work.

After opening the file in Photoshop, I convert to B&W using a B&W layer mask. At the conversion stage, I play with the colour sliders to get the image looking the way I want. I will sometimes open the image as a SmartObject and use the B&W functionality in the Camera Raw filter this way. This is somewhat similar to how I worked B&W film; filters were used to change the density of different areas of the image; for instance a yellow or red filter enhanced clouds, green improved the look of skin, etc. The main difference is that with film, I could only use one filter at a time. I Photoshop I can use as many as I want simultaneously.

All the other filters and pixel based editing comes later. As I use a non-destructive editing technique, the colour data is preserved, but I never actually look at it.

[IzzieK]

Manfred and Mike, thank you both for that. And thanks for the very detailed description Manfred, I'm going to have to try this method too. I really like how it sounds.

Me too...my workflow used to be simple ACR then duplicate layer then go to Nik's after some cropping, straightening and all that...then I misunderstood your post. It was like pulling teeth, but it got me thinking...thanks...practicing my brain exercises it...you are a big help...

[Manfred M]

Thanks for this response Manfred...you know how I feel about the neatness of your images, whether they are coloured or black and white. Just that at the time I wasn't much into the mono versions, still think they are neat. I follow your post, John (2) and others on the reasons when to convert an image to black and white and when not to but I seemed to have skipped some or forget some...you know those advice on "when the background is busy, convert it to mono.." I guess this did not work very well in this case...thanks for commenting and suggestions. I will put this in mind for next time...

Izzie - I don't do a lot of B&W because I find getting a great looking image in colour is much more challenging than doing so in B&W. For the first few years when I got into serious photography, I was pretty well a B&W shooter only.

I remember that I really loved Ernst Haas's work when I was still in my teens and suspect that this is why I was drawn to colour work. Colour in the wet darkroom is much more difficult and challenging than doing B&W prints. http://www.ernst-haas.com/

As a general rule I tend to go B&W for a few very specific reasons:

1. Simplification - sometimes an image does not work because it is too busy. Taking an sRGB image with its 16 million distinct shades comes down to 256 shades.

2. The "period look" - when I shoot people and places that look like they might have come from the time when photography (or films and television) were primarily B&W, it gives the images a bit of a timeless look. I will use this technique when presenting shots taken in developing countries, where some of the traditions and clothing that go back in time are still in common use.

3. Uncorrectable colour cast - sometimes when shooting in mixed light conditions, the colours are difficult to impossible to correct. B&W doesn't care about colour temperature or white balance, so this is an easy fix.

4. The scene is already highly monochrome. I find that these shots sometimes look better when they are presented as B&W images (and sometimes perhaps not).

5. Night scenes - this is a bit of both a colour temperature and monochrome look in the scene, so more of a blend of points 3 and 4. They can also exhibit a lot of chromatic noise in the sky or shadow detail, but can look effective when converted to B&W, where the noise can enhance an image.


I do find that for the most part, I lose something in the image when I throw away the colour, which is the reason I hesitate in going to B&W shots.

[Jeff Blakemore]

Me too...my workflow used to be simple ACR then duplicate layer then go to Nik's after some cropping, straightening and all that...then I misunderstood your post. It was like pulling teeth, but it got me thinking...thanks...practicing my brain exercises it...you are a big help...

I may have misunderstood your workflow also Izzie. I assumed you were desaturating the image from the beginning. What I really like about the method that Manfred described is he uses an adjustment layer to make his conversion, therefore leaving the color data intact. That way he can adjust certain color channels to boost and subdue specific tones while viewing his adjustments in real-time and non-destructively. It really does seem like a great way to convert.

[Manfred M]

I may have misunderstood your workflow also Izzie. I assumed you were desaturating the image from the beginning. What I really like about the method that Manfred described is he uses an adjustment layer to make his conversion, therefore leaving the color data intact. That way he can adjust certain color channels to boost and subdue specific tones while viewing his adjustments in real-time and non-destructively. It really does seem like a great way to convert.

Using the first method I described allows 6 discrete colour adjustments,

The technique I use more often these days is the turn the image into a SmartObject and then apply the Camera Raw filter. After converting the image to a Smart Object open the Camera Raw Filter and select the HS/Grayscale tab. Check the "Convert to grayscale" box and then the Luminance tab. This gives you 8 discrete sliders to work with. For skies and water I like using a combination of the Blue and Aqua slider.

This method is a little less intuitive than the Adjustment layer approach, but just as non-destructive.

[Brev00]

The background was dark with little color at the start but after tonal contrast, it became lighter and more colorful. So, in the conversion, the background is more intense than at the start. The main thing i would do is lighten parts of the building while maybe even making the background darker. Lighten/Darken Center instead of Tonal Contrast. The trees nice and dark with maybe a selenium tone would be nice. Film noir is a great SE preset that can be toned down to taste but adds good melodrama to these sorts of houses in the woods shots. In terms of pp before bw, I tend to just make a nice color image first. But, I have been known to use strong effects like those in Nik HDR Efex Pro prior to conversion. No rules!