X-Trans Experiment

[Black Pearl]

One of the reason I switched to the Fuji was the reputation of their home grown X-Trans sensor - which from initial testing seems to be well founded. It was this one thing that had put me off my D300s, I loved the camera don't get me wrong but I couldn't live with the output any longer.

Below is a jpeg from the camera and a raw file I processed in ACR. The head room is huge with lots of recoverable highlight detail while lifting the shadows does very little to damage the file.

This was taken with the Samyang 12mm f2 which I've applied a little correction to as the verticals were converging dramatically - my fault for pointing a super-wide upwards. Haven't corrected for actual distortions though as it seems good and straight right from the off. Plenty of detail too which baring in mind what is being asked of a £250 lens is remarkable.





Fuji X-T1 - 12mm f2 - 1/280s - f11 - 800iso

[Shadowman]

Nice captures.

[Clactonian]

Impressive Robin, although I think you will find that the 'headroom' in most modern sensors and firmware leaves the old D300 way behind. Much like my D2Xs which I love to bits but only use under specific conditions.

[Manfred M]

You look like you are adjusting quite nicely to your new gear. I'll have to agree with you about the Samyang lenses; they are a remarkable bargain (if you don't mind the lack if integration / automation). As for the sensor in the D300s; so far as I can tell it's the same sensor as I have in the D90 and two generation difference between that camera and your new Fuji will certainly be noticeable.

[IzzieK]

I still think you need to correct those distortions...am I whining? Nope, it is just me...

[doomed forever]

The Samyang lenses are quite good for the asking price, manual focus, but cheap in terms of performance compared to others. I've the 35/1.4 AS UMC lens, its quite a big lens, but great IQ. A ultra wide lens like yours with 12mm gives naturally much straight lines (architecture) distortion. Do you have a lens profile for your favorite photo editor/raw software? A plugin/standalone like DxO ViewPoint is very good at this - using it myself since 1.x Release.

To quote CiC here:

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...orrections.htm

:-)

[John 2]

I have two Samyang lenses for my XT-1, an 8mm fisheye and a 10mm super wide. In terms of IQ, I can't fault them and bought them largely on the recommendation of the many reviewers that found the same to be true. If I go with the reviews, the 12mm is even better but I had already invested in the Fuji 14 mm. When it come to the fact that that they are manual rather than fully coupled, it just isn't a problem. I generally set the camera to f8, aperture priority, mid range focus and get on with it. It might become a problem if I were to use their longer lenses but for that reason, I have stuck to Fuji's offerings. There is nothing I terms of distortion that can't be fixed in PS - if you need to. Sometimes, used creatively, it just adds a bit of interest.

[Clactonian]

I still think you need to correct those distortions...am I whining? Nope, it is just me...

Yep you're whining!!!! But why not, we all have our preferences.

[Black Pearl]

The Samyang lenses are quite good for the asking price, manual focus, but cheap in terms of performance compared to others. I've the 35/1.4 AS UMC lens, its quite a big lens, but great IQ. A ultra wide lens like yours with 12mm gives naturally much straight lines (architecture) distortion. Do you have a lens profile for your favorite photo editor/raw software? A plugin/standalone like DxO ViewPoint is very good at this - using it myself since 1.x Release.

To quote CiC here:

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...orrections.htm

:-)

I don't have any plug-in profiles for Lightroom and the Samyang's aren't programmed in as yet. To be fair to the 12mm the optical correction is fairly good so I might just shoot something like a wall (I HATE getting involved with testing and pixel peeping but might this once) then create a correction profile to apply at import.

[doomed forever]

I don't have any plug-in profiles for Lightroom and the Samyang's aren't programmed in as yet. To be fair to the 12mm the optical correction is fairly good so I might just shoot something like a wall (I HATE getting involved with testing and pixel peeping but might this once) then create a correction profile to apply at import.

I see...well, i need/use for every lens a distortion control profile...i can't bear pincushion or barrel distortion, visible into the image...or straight lines into architecture due to distortion...but thats with me, everyone does have other preferences...

[doomed forever]

I don't have any plug-in profiles for Lightroom and the Samyang's aren't programmed in as yet. To be fair to the 12mm the optical correction is fairly good so I might just shoot something like a wall (I HATE getting involved with testing and pixel peeping but might this once) then create a correction profile to apply at import.

I see...well, i need/use for every lens a distortion control profile...i can't bear pincushion or barrel distortion, visible into the image...or straight lines into architecture due to distortion...but thats with me, everyone does have other preferences...

doublepost...CiC showed me 1st an error here...

[Black Pearl]

Lightroom picks up the EXIF tags for all the Fuji lenses I own and corrects them on import for the issues you've mentions, that and architecture isn't really my thing so I rarely have a shot that might be ruined by excessive distortions. I will take the time to tweak a Samyang test shot and save the profile, its winter and I won't always be able to get out so its the right time of year to fiddle on in front of a computer.

[jcuknz]

"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." but watch out for the knives reaction.
Sorry! nothing to do with the thread

[Max von MeiselMaus]

That is a very nice shot.

I have a Fujifilm X-E1 as my walkabout camera and I am overall impressed. However, what I find frustrating is the "watercolour" effect the X-Trans sensor seems to give. This is turning areas of tone or colour into textureless "patches". It is very apparent if you go pixel peeping, but it can be seen in more conventional views. It seems to get worse if you are not very careful with noise reduction and sharpening and I have not yet found a way to eliminate it entirely.

So, whilst I enjoy my camera tremendously, I am cautious about wholeheartedly recommending the X-Trans sensor, because of this issue.

[MrB]

At last, a comment directly related to the title of the thread. Thank you Max.

Cheers.
Philip

[Adzman808]

The water colour effect is apparently largely dependent upon which raw software you use.

Iirc, earlier versions of LR were quite susceptible

Many X-Trans users prefer the rendering from products such as Irridient, photo ninja or capture one, although the latest version of LR is apparently much improved.

I love my Fuji X Trans cameras very much, but I think the advantages of the tech that Fuji bought to market with the first one in 2012, (when the X-Pro1 compared very favourably with incumbent FF sensors) have largely been lost with newer APSC sensors, while Fuji have largely stood still

Fuji also did no one any favours by designing a new colour array, but neglecting to work with the major PP SW houses to provide guidance on how to get the best from their raw data.

And full disclosure

I say this as someone who owns 2 X-Trans cameras, has owned 2 other X-Trans cameras, and has shot exculsively with X-Trans for nearly 2 years!

For me I like the size and controls of the Fuji cameras, and I particularly like the size of the (original release) primes, their speed and rendering

But for sure Fuji isn't for everyone!

RE the OP

I like the PP job, good shadow and highlight, hasn't been taken to far, and FWIW I see detail in the foilage*

*Fuji file joke, don't worry if you don't get it!

[John 2]

That is a very nice shot.

I have a Fujifilm X-E1 as my walkabout camera and I am overall impressed. However, what I find frustrating is the "watercolour" effect the X-Trans sensor seems to give. This is turning areas of tone or colour into textureless "patches". It is very apparent if you go pixel peeping, but it can be seen in more conventional views. It seems to get worse if you are not very careful with noise reduction and sharpening and I have not yet found a way to eliminate it entirely.

So, whilst I enjoy my camera tremendously, I am cautious about wholeheartedly recommending the X-Trans sensor, because of this issue.

Adam's explanation is my understanding also and keep in mind the fact that the XE1 has the original X Tran sensor and not the X Tran II sensor fitted to the XE2/XT-1 and XT-10. I don't doubt that the so called water colour effect is still there. However I process in Adobe Raw 9.1.1 /CS6 and it has never been an obvious problem. Also, without actual pixel peeping, I couldn't see a discernible difference when I processed in Photo Ninja. I would expect the later CC version of PS and LR to be even better.

[Max von MeiselMaus]

That's interesting that the problem might have been resolved in later versions. It is not a deal-breaker for me, as this is still the portable camera I wanted, at the price I was prepared to pay. However, as I am not looking to ditch it and move on, I haven't followed progress on this.

Adam, I process RAW with the AWFUL Silkypix software, as my camera/PS version combo won't work with ACR. I tried DNG and this is what happened.



Horrible demosaicing problem. Again, not a deal breaker but it does drive me to shoot JPEG more often than not, just so I don't have to brave Silkypix. Not a problem with the X-Trans sensor per se, but of compatibility of other software with it.

[Adzman808]

That's interesting that the problem might have been resolved in later versions. It is not a deal-breaker for me, as this is still the portable camera I wanted, at the price I was prepared to pay. However, as I am not looking to ditch it and move on, I haven't followed progress on this.

Adam, I process RAW with the AWFUL Silkypix software, as my camera/PS version combo won't work with ACR. I tried DNG and this is what happened.

[IMG]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8627/16560260859_61976a6b8d_b.jpg[/IG]

Horrible demosaicing problem. Again, not a deal breaker but it does drive me to shoot JPEG more often than not, just so I don't have to brave Silkypix. Not a problem with the X-Trans sensor per se, but of compatibility of other software with it.

SilkyPix is erm an acquired taste, even the pro version!

I use capture one pro, but to be fair I seldom zoom to 100% and never add sharpening or NR*

If it is of interest, you can dropbox me a problem file and I'll have a bash at it in C1 or even turn it into a tiff so that it works with any software and send it back to you, also C1 offers a fully functional trial version (no, I'm not affiliated!)

I think each SW offers its own challenges... I shoot a lot wide open, in bright sunlight and C1 sure ain't no LR when it comes to dealing with purple fringing!

Erm I fear we've wandered away from the OP here

*I'm getting a lx100 for Christmas and I've already had a play, my first bayer sensored camera in nearly 3 years... I can already see that I'll be needing to get ofay with sharpening and NR with it's raw output!

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Thanks, Adam.

I have the raw conversion nailed (ish. I hate Silkypix and have no desire to go through the agony of learning how to use it properly for my secondary camera, but I can just about use it), but if a particularly watercoloured shot comes up, I will hand it over for you to have a go at. I do use noise reduction, using Noise Ninja, and sharpening, using a frequency separation method. So, I do both with care. However, there are just areas of tone and colour where there is nothing, so denoising and sharpening can't really make it worse. I will see if I can find a detail of a shot that shows you what I mean.