Help with clarity without graininess

[skitterbug]

My goal this summer is capturing pictures without blur. Believe it or not, I have a fondness for buzzards - local name for turkey vultures. So this week, a pair of them decided to do some cleanup work in the field that is across the road from our home. I'm guessing that they are too far away for my equipment to do a decent job but that's why I am asking. Can I capture these birds without blur with my 55-250mm lens? I decided to try an ISO 1600 and let the rest of the settings to automatic. As you can see, there is graininess when I crop the pic.
So can I accomplish what I want to do or is it a matter of simply trying to get closer to the subject and setting the ISO lower? Yep - newbie questions I know but I have to start somewhere! Thanks for any help offered!

[AlwaysOnAuto]

The nice thing about digital Sandy, is that you can experiment cheaply.
Try shooting at 100 ISO and see what you get.

[Shadowman]

Sandy,

You can attempt to get no blur, or some blur (wings only) with main subject in focus/sharp. A bird with flapping wings will be slightly harder to get all in focus than a soaring bird; plus if flying you'll have to pan the shot which only adds to your dilemma. I would suggest setting your camera for fast shutter speeds and/or widest aperture.

[proseak]

You seem to be shooting at f.14 - try a lower value, and ISO to match. Shooting in raw will give more control over NR, too

[pnodrog]

You seem to be shooting at f.14 - try a lower value, and ISO to match. Shooting in raw will give more control over NR, too

Peter is onto it. Try f8 (usually optimum setting for lens performance) or f5.6 and ISO 800 or 400 and for similar lighting speed will probably drop to 1/500 - 1/1000 which should still be fast enough.

However getting closer is always preferable. Some birds are not car shy so if you can drive closer and remain in the car it may help.

[Geoff F]

Iso 800 is the highest that I am willing to go for this sort of shot, Sandy. That is with 7D MkII and 150-600 lens; OK maybe I will push it to Iso 1250 when shooting mostly for identification so a bit of noise is acceptable.

Yes, that often means opening the shutter to F8 in order to get sufficient shutter speed, but be aware of possibly getting reduced focusing depth; although with that lens and shooting distance you shouldn't have any problems.

I tend to work on 1/1000 shutter speed as being the minimum for a gently flying or gliding bird, and ideally more like twice that speed. So I mostly shoot in Aperture Priority mode with a fixed Iso but always watch the shutter speed setting as well. Occasionally the other way around where I shoot with Shutter Priority.

[skitterbug]

Thank you!

I have a place to start from now and I really appreciate the info shared. Alan is right, since it is digital it won't cost me money to keep trying. I will lament missed opportunities tho!

I don't use all manual settings yet, but I've spent some time today checking over my camera and have decided that the AV or TV modes give me enough choices that maybe I can achieve the suggested settings that Peter, Geoff and Paul offered. Hope you agree?

I'd be flying high if I had the 7D MKII with 150-600 lens! I've drooled while reading information about this camera! BUT I have to learn how to use what I have before I can justify moving on to more expensive equipment. <sigh>

Our area is currently becoming more spring-like so I'll be able to get out and try - try again! I'm certain I'll be back with more questions.

Have a great day!

[AlwaysOnAuto]

The missed opportunities will add the needed pressure to insure quicker learning.

[Wavelength]

With 50-250 lens, you have achieved fine results. ..and since the background is grainy sand, it has swallowed the grains . All the best for your advancement in the field

[skitterbug]

I'm back again. First thank you Alan and Nandakumar for your kind words!

So I got lucky today and had "my friends" show back up in the field across the road. Apparently the roadkill still had some appeal to them!

I tried the first two pics I've selected for posting with the TV mode on my Rebel T3i - ISO400, f11 1/500 250mm (full out)

#1


#2


The next two were taken in AV mode - ISO400, f8, 1/1000 and 250mm

#3


#4


So there is always the difficulty of focusing properly, movement of camera and lighting, but is there any improvement I can make with the settings of my camera to achieve better results?

Again, all comments are welcome! And thank you for taking an interest in helping me!

[Shadowman]

I'm back again. First thank you Alan and Nandakumar for your kind words!

So I got lucky today and had "my friends" show back up in the field across the road. Apparently the roadkill still had some appeal to them!

I tried the first two pics I've selected for posting with the TV mode on my Rebel T3i - ISO400, f11 1/500 250mm (full out)

#1


#2


The next two were taken in AV mode - ISO400, f8, 1/1000 and 250mm

#3


#4


So there is always the difficulty of focusing properly, movement of camera and lighting, but is there any improvement I can make with the settings of my camera to achieve better results?

Again, all comments are welcome! And thank you for taking an interest in helping me!

I think you've done well with the settings chosen, you can always go wider; perhaps to f/5.6 so that you can use a lower ISO, also try focusing on the eyes; I know it's difficult with a moving subject but if you can get the eyes in focus the rest of the bird will seem in focus to the viewer. If you are still cropping the final image considerably then perhaps a longer focal length is needed or you need to coax the birds closer to you.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

I don't think laying down in the field and playing dead is a good idea, but moving closer to them would probably help.
It's a bright day, why not use ISO 100?

[Dave Humphries]

You might want to try getting the other side of the light too Sandy (if possible) - you have shot in to the light (to an extent) on most/all of these, so the side we see is in shadow.

Getting sufficient shutter speed is far more important than sticking to iso 100.

I have shoot regularly at 800 - 2000 iso (depending on the weather) to achieve the required 1/1000s+ (at f/8 or f/11, the sweet spot for my lens).

Getting closer is going to be necessary with 250mm, to avoid excessive cropping if you want single bird shots rather than groups.

It's not easy - I'm often lucky to get the focus point on the bird, let alone the eye, but if you can't do the latter, it is usually a sign that you/me are too far away

Cheers and Good luck, Dave

[skitterbug]

Hi John and Dave - I generally try and focus on eyes but as you both suggest, trying to do this on moving subjects at the distance I’ve attempted apparently seems to be impossible. I’ll have another look at the settings and hopefully get plenty of opportunities to capture better and closer photos this summer.

Alan - I can see me crawling through the field, sneaking up on my subjects and me hoping they don’t think I’m offering myself for their dinner! Brings to mind, Alfred Hitchcock or episodes from “Twilight Zone”.

I am now contemplating the notion that better equipment could/should be a possibility. Is it worth buying a lens that gains closer focus and matches my current camera or would it make more sense to eventually purchase a new camera body and lens kit? Newer technology is always a plus. I reckon I need to surf the Digital Cameras & Equipment forum!

Once again, thank you all for your encouragement, suggestions and help.

[Geoff F]

Dave has already mentioned the light angle, Sandy. I adjust the Exposure Compensation for most of my bird shots; but it can mean giving a little tweak for each shot because the requirements can vary considerably between the target species, light angle and background etc.

My normal bird settings (if there is such a thing as normal with birds) is to use Partial Exposure Metering option, if I can take a reading from an actual subject, and continuous (AI Servo) focusing. I'm not a bit fan of shooting multiple burst shots but having the ability to do a burst of 3 or 4 frames can be useful to capture exactly the right moment.

If the background is adversely affecting your exposure it can be useful to work out the best option from test shots then set the camera manually. But that does mean being in a situation where you are shooting the same birds in similar situations without too much variation. So often with bird photography it is a case of 'look at that' pick up camera and shoot.

Today I was shooting some flying gulls in dull light so it meant going to Iso 1600 in order to have an aperture of F8 and a shutter speed of 1/1200. I haven't processed the images yet but a quick look shows that I have some rather grainy backgrounds to contend with. Other shots with Iso 1250 may be a little better in that respect but I fear the shutter was a little too slow for what I wanted to capture.

[Shadowman]

Hi John and Dave - I generally try and focus on eyes but as you both suggest, trying to do this on moving subjects at the distance I’ve attempted apparently seems to be impossible. I’ll have another look at the settings and hopefully get plenty of opportunities to capture better and closer photos this summer.

Alan - I can see me crawling through the field, sneaking up on my subjects and me hoping they don’t think I’m offering myself for their dinner! Brings to mind, Alfred Hitchcock or episodes from “Twilight Zone”.

I am now contemplating the notion that better equipment could/should be a possibility. Is it worth buying a lens that gains closer focus and matches my current camera or would it make more sense to eventually purchase a new camera body and lens kit? Newer technology is always a plus. I reckon I need to surf the Digital Cameras & Equipment forum!

Once again, thank you all for your encouragement, suggestions and help.

Sandy,

There is still the option of coaxing the birds closer to you, don't know if there are any Ohio laws against laying a bit of bait but as you are dealing with scavengers some randomly placed pieces of raw meat would certainly attract the birds. Your safety is of importance so I wouldn't place it too close to your shooting location and I would also make sure to place all of the meat at the site, don't keep any extras on your person.

[Shadowman]

Sandy,

There is still the option of coaxing the birds closer to you, don't know if there are any Ohio laws against laying a bit of bait but as you are dealing with scavengers some randomly placed pieces of raw meat would certainly attract the birds. Your safety is of importance so I wouldn't place it too close to your shooting location and I would also make sure to place all of the meat at the site, don't keep any extras on your person.

Doing some additional research and you might not want to bait them for two reasons, they are protected birds and you don't want to be accused of harming them. Also, as they are probably not the most desired creatures; others might not take too kindly that you are enabling them. Perhaps it's better to go the equipment route or choose a more friendlier variety.

http://www.crittercontrol.com/services/vulture/

[skitterbug]

Hi John

Although in the link you indicated lump the Black Vulture and the Turkey Vulture together, it is thought that the Turkey vulture is not as aggressive and feeds on rotted "stuff" rather than going after the young livestock, etc. Read the last paragraph on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_vulture for an explanation about the confusion between the two.

I like them because they let us know when spring is coming! They absolutely won't return to our area until the weather is warmer so it means spring is here! I also appreciate that they do clean up the road slaughter that happens all the time. It makes me sad to see an animal killed on the road but it also cheers me that we have our natural garbage collectors like the turkey vulture (buzzard)!

Oh - and don't worry about me trying to feed them! That would never happen! I like watching them fly, etc. but I really don't care to have them in our yard.

New equipment sounds like a treat! I wonder if I can convenience hubby of my urgent need for it! <chuckle>

Cheers!

[skitterbug]

Hi Geoff,

Thank you for adding to the knowledge in this thread. It all helps!

After trying to capture a clear and concise photo of a flying bird, it makes me realize even more the super talent that is displayed in the CiC forum! Wow! I’ll keep trying to hone the skill but I will definitely need to make a few changes in my approach. (and lots of practice too) For one, I either need to be closer or change my equipment to give me the ability to capture those longer range shots. And yes, the idea that I ought to consider a different “favorite” bird has entered my mind too.

So I do use AI Servo focusing but I’ve never decided if I should have the meter set to the spot metering or the evaluative metering setting. I use the spot metering simply because it seemed easier to center on whatever I was trying to capture. I’ll give the partial metering a try! I actually didn't know that was an option! I'm not sure I can handle manual settings yet. I know more about my camera than I did a few years ago but I’m not good about changing setting on the fly yet.

And I don’t think I noted it anywhere else but I do use RAW for my format. It takes space but in the beginning years when I only used jpeg files and small ones at that, I had some disappointments in results that I really wanted to keep. So lesson learned there.

And finally, you are quite right about the idea that birds aren’t creatures that are there when we want to capture them. They pop up at the oddest times and the camera has to be close and ready to go!
This craft is fun though so I’ll keep plugging along!

With all the help offered in the forum, I ought to be an expert in the matter of a few days! Right? <laughing and wishing that were true!>

Cheers!

[LightBucket]

I too use a Canon T3i and I too have the same troubles at long focal lengths. I have found that i have been getting more clear shots when I shoot in Aperture Priority mode, with Evaluative Metering, AI Servo Focusing, and set a single focal point. I try to keep my ISO below 400 as the T3i produces a fair amount of noise at and above 800 ISO, in my opinion. I personally would not use F11 if i was shooting a bird or closely grouped group of birds, as I wouldn't care if the background was in focus. You could probably get away with F6 to F8. If I cant get a shutter speed that is fast enough in Aperature Priority, I will swap to Shutter Priority and do more post processing in the shadows. And I am recently discovering that with long focal lengths (even with a quick shutter speed) I still need a tripod to get crisper shots, unless the lighting is direct and nice.