Need some Photoshop Help - Selecting Sky

[TheBigE]

So in my effort to try and learn more about PS, I am challenging myself to do some more difficult adjustments to this photo below.



My first goal was to add some "life" and depth to the sky behind the monument. My thought was too

Open as Smart Object in PS
Use an Adjustment Layer -> Curves to bring some life into just the clouds.

I have been trying for two nights to just select the clouds for my layer mask....seems no matter what I try, which has mainly been the Magic Selection Tool with these settings



PS is just getting too confused with the tree branches, and other areas of the photo. I have not been able to make a good selection of the area....

Am I going about this the easiest way? Is there something I could improve in the settings? Any help is appreciated.

[Geoff F]

How much adjustment are you requiring, Erik?

With all that fine detail from the trees, and probably with a little bit of fringing issues as well, I doubt anything will achieve the result of a fine detail selection.

My thoughts would be to use a simple adjustment layer then hide the layer and gradually reveal as much as was 'comfortable' to be done by brushing over the mask with a 'white brush'.

That could darken the sky and although the branches would also be darkened I suspect you could get away with it by gradually revealing the effect by repeated applications of a reasonably soft brush with an opacity around 20%.

Your adjustment layer would probably be set to work mostly on the highlights so the darker areas shouldn't be overly affected.

[Manfred M]

The Magic Selection tool is not as good as the newer Quick Selection Tool, but in the type of selection you are trying to make, you might want to consider one of the other methods.

Try <Select> <Color Range> instead. That will sometimes work much better in this type problem. Use the regular eyedropper tool to start and then hit the eyedropper with the + on it to add more colours. Set fuzziness around 30% to start and see how that works.

Once you have the selection done, play with the feathering (start with 1 pixel) and see how that works on the branches. This type of selection is tough to do because it is all too easy to introduce artifacts and halos.

[Geoff F]

I have sometimes overcome difficult selections by creating a duplicate layer and massively overdo the contrast settings on that layer. This can make a selection easier. Then delete, or hide, that layer so the selection drops down onto the required image.

But in this case I am doubtful about even that working.

[victor]

Eric,

Look at the channels in photoshop on the channels tab.

Select the channel that give the best black and white image and duplicate this channel

now turn off all other channels and work directly on this channel only.

Try a levels adjustment on get the best blacks and whites.

when you have done this look at what you now have.

now set the background and foreground colours to default colours. Press d

select the brush tool and set the blend mode to overlay.

set the brush to white and paint over the image. This should leave the black. If this does not work try setting the brush to black and paint over.

in overlay mode the White brush should not over paint black. I think.

when you have done this. Unselect this channel and turn on the usal rgb channels.

this returns image to normal view.

then go to channels palette and press control and click on the duplicate channel you have worked on. This will give you a selection.

now add this selection as a layer mask to your layers.

regards

[Manfred M]

Erik - if you Google "Luminosity Mask", this is the technique that Victor is describing and it takes a bit of experience to use this technique well. I use a slightly different approach, when I use this technique, but you might find it a bit overwhelming as you are fairly new to PS. Most people would consider this an advanced technique.

[TheBigE]

All - Thanks, I will take a deeper look into the Luminosity Mask. I think I can walk through it and make it work...part of the learning process.

For now - I went with the Color Range and played with feather until it looked good.


I may try next with Victors Method.

Looking at this more - my next thought would be to remove the tree on the right. Again many branches and complexities. You can see I was already playing around with this (Layer 1).

Would this be easier with or without the Curves Adjustment? I seem to think it would be better with the Curves Adjustment.

Is this a tedious process of just Healing Brush, Clone Stamp, etc?

[Manfred M]

Erik - unfortunately the images that you post are far too small to see any of the details that might be an issue.

I personally would not bother with removing the tree as it creates balance at the right hand side of the image. I don't like doing that much major surgery on an image as it usually means I did not take enough care and planning while shooting (although to be frank, sometimes one has to do this. In that situation, I would probably look at removing the tree and using a different sky from another shot. The chances of making the sky look right by cloning is going to be tricky and there are easier ways to go.

[TheBigE]

Erik - unfortunately the images that you post are far too small to see any of the details that might be an issue.

I personally would not bother with removing the tree as it creates balance at the right hand side of the image. I don't like doing that much major surgery on an image as it usually means I did not take enough care and planning while shooting (although to be frank, sometimes one has to do this. In that situation, I would probably look at removing the tree and using a different sky from another shot. The chances of making the sky look right by cloning is going to be tricky and there are easier ways to go.

Thanks. The original phot should have been full size - I uploaded it as double XL from SmugMug. Is there a better way to do this?


My second thought would be to remove flag on right (for the life of me I have no idea what the flag is...still searching).

[Rob Ekins]

For selection tips..

24 minutes in on this video..

Also search 'Blue channel sky replacement' on Youtube.

[DanK]

Thanks. The original phot should have been full size - I uploaded it as double XL from SmugMug. Is there a better way to do this?

yes. Put this in a smugmug gallery that is set to allow downloads of full size files. then in addition to posting the image using a reasonable size (I usually use XL), post the link to the "original" image. I have all of my publicly viewable galleries set to a max of XL to limit theft, but I have another gallery that you can't find without a link that is set to "original."

Manfred beat me too it. I usually use selection by color in cases like this, playing with the fuzziness slider as needed. About 60 seemed to work well with this image. I do this all the time with photos of flowers that have a black background that didn't come out entirely black. As long as the color is very different from what abuts it, it works pretty well, and you can remove areas another selection tool if need be.

[TheBigE]

yes. Put this in a smugmug gallery that is set to allow downloads of full size files. then in addition to posting the image using a reasonable size (I usually use XL), post the link to the "original" image. I have all of my publicly viewable galleries set to a max of XL to limit theft, but I have another gallery that you can't find without a link that is set to "original."

Manfred beat me too it. I usually use selection by color in cases like this, playing with the fuzziness slider as needed. About 60 seemed to work well with this image. I do this all the time with photos of flowers that have a black background that didn't come out entirely black. As long as the color is very different from what abuts it, it works pretty well, and you can remove areas another selection tool if need be.

Okay, thanks - I misunderstood before and now realize I have to set to Original in SmugMUG and provide a link for the photo as well. I thought just uploading it as XL or 2XL would be sufficient. Consider myself educated.



I generally have one gallery as Unlisted where I put "work in progress" for my others I have them set ot prevent DL and only at XL size. These are public.

I updated with a Link in the OP and believe this should now allow for DL of the "original" file....

[John 2]

Erik, not sure what version of PS you are using but if you have CS4 or above, as an alternative to the above suggestions, you could try this:

1. Hit Ctrl/Alt/2. This selects just the dark areas of your image.
2 Using the quick selection tool, tidy up the selection paying particular attention to the flags and flag poles.
3. Copy the selection.
4. Now adjust the mid tones and highlights to bring out the sky to taste. This will darken everything else.
5. Paste the original dark selection back as a layer.
6. Dodge and burn on the two layers to bring the branches back to what they should be. The finer feathered branch ends in particular.
7. Flatten the image and adjust levels/contrast etc.

Should look something like this.

[rpcrowe]

One problem with Johns PP is that the sky through the columns is brighter than the surrounding sky.

A very quick way to select the sky would be to open NIK Viveza (which is a free download now) and place several selection points on the sky. Include a control point on the sky through the columns of the structure. Group the selection points. Since the structure is so close to the color of the sky, place a couple of points on the structure. This will differentiate the sky from the structure and trees by selecting the group...

Now, you can do anything you want wit the sky: reduce brightness, increase blue, increase structure (if there were clouds) etc.

[John 2]

...................One problem with Johns PP is that the sky through the columns is brighter than the surrounding sky....................

Only because it was a quick and dirty Richard.

[loosecanon]

In images such as shown, where the problem is a washed out sky I often just add a layer with an acceptable sky in it and set blend mode to darken. Mask out any parts where the sky intrudes. I also mask out most of the lower part of the image just in case the odd window frame etc gets by me.
This option is great for retaining detail in trees.

[TheBigE]

Thanks everyone for the help. There are several ways to tackle this...but this exercise has opened me up to Luminosity Mask.

I am starting to take a much deeper dive into these to understand them, how to create them and when to use them. Time spent learning this now will only benefit in the long run.

[wobert]

Threshold (Image > Adjustments > Threshold) can be useful for creating masks-

[Manfred M]

Threshold (Image > Adjustments > Threshold) can be useful for creating masks-

Looks like this is another way of creating a luminosity mask I hadn't thought of before. Thanks for the idea!