three almost "good shots"

[scully]

Hi all, I wonder whether I could ask some specific questions on some shots that I took that I want to love but am not sure that I can.

Here is the first one.

This shot is of a girl in Hoi An selling candles to tourists that they then float down the river for good karma. The candles are the only light source.

It was taken at night and I wanted the effect that I got, so I did not use a flash. However to do that I needed to boost the ISO up to 1600 and even then I could only get a 1/30 second shot. The aperture is 3.2 maybe I could have gone down to 2.8 but I am not sure that would have made too much difference. I held the camera as steady as possible and am happy with the result, but should I like a shot taken at 1600 ISO? Is there a better approach to shots like this?



OK, second shot.

This is an action shot of a fisherman in Cambodia. The shutter speed is 6400 and the aperture is 3.5 and the ISO is 100. It was a 38 degree day and was taken around 3PM so right at the hottest part of the day. I really like the shot, but perhaps the focus is not right on his face as it was a reaction shot with the camera set to aperture mode. Should I junk it? Is it OK? I am not sure.



And on to the third shot

This is another reaction shot and is of a primary or preschool in Sa Pa town in Northern Vietnam It has a little motion blur (maybe that should be camera shake) because I only had a second and it is taken at 1/50 sec. Aperture is 2.8 and ISO is 100. With more time I would have set a faster speed and perhaps got a different result. My question? Is this worth keeping?



I hope I am OK asking these questions of other photographers, and advice is welcome. These are three shots that are close to being good but are probably not great. Thanks in advance.

Steve

[pnodrog]

Stephen I do not think you could have done much better in taking your first shot. It will depend on your camera whether or not increasing the ISO would have helped. Going from f3.2 to f2.8 would have been pretty insignificant. In PP you could try lightning the face slightly and lowering the colour temperature a fraction. Overall I think you should be satisfied.

Unless lighting conditions force me to or I want to ensure out of focus backgrounds I seldom drop below f5.6. Most of the time I use aperture priority and more recently with auto ISO.

Both of your daylight shots appear a little soft. Lenses usually perform best stopped down by 2-3 more stops from maximum open. Without information regarding the camera lens combination it is hard to draw specific conclusions. Softness can be caused by too slower shutter speed (should not be the case in the second photograph), focus incorrect or DOF insufficient, camera not held steady, poor lens, dirt/dust or condensation on filter or lens or incorrect sharpening in PP.

Try using f5.6 or f8 and hold the camera as steady as possible. In the night shot you have obviously held the camera nice and steady so you can manage it...

[ionian]

First shot looks fine to me. At this size, any grain or colour degradation is minimal, and will be unless you plan to print it as a poster. Paul's suggestions are good with regards to WB and treatment of her face.

2nd shot is soft, but you like it, so please don't junk it. If you are anything like me you will not be taking perfect shots every time - for me, those perfect moments come along all too rarely. This is a memory as much as a technical exercise, and it may be some time before you get the opportunity again to take an action shot of a Cambodian fisherman. Enjoy the shot for what it is.

Third shot is lovely in concept, and while it is a little soft you could try some smart sharpening in Photoshop (I also removed gaussian blur), and adding a high pass filter (here I duplicated the layer, desaturated it, converted the duplicate to a high pass filter with a radius of 5px, and then changed the layer blend mode to overlay). See below for a very quick example. It may not be perfect, but I think it has removed some of those softer edges.



Another approach would be to stylise it in post - if it's soft, add some glow and make it a feature of the image.

[Shadowman]

All are very nice, I think the fisherman has the softest look and would take more editing to make presentable. The first is fine as is, the last one's only fault is the cropping of the feet and could have used a bit more space at top.

[scully]

Ah, sorry I forgot the camera info. I use a Canon 60D and the lens is a 24-70 EF L USM. I usually use Aperture Mode and have it set at about 3.5 to try to have it ready as fast as possible. Thank you for the thoughts all, I appreciate it.

[ionian]

For my walk-around I set to f8 in aperture priority*; I'd rather have depth of field and make the shot than everything out of focus. It does mean higher ISO, but noise is easy to limit in post. I'll adjust the ISO (and aperture if theres time) as the camera comes up to my face if required. f8 and be there, as Arthur “Weegee” Fellig was famed for saying.


* actually this is a lie - I try to remember to set the damn thing up this way but often forget, and get frustrated when I see the results at home because of it.

[Mike Buckley]

I'm going to take a very different position from those already expressed in the thread: Though I think it's great that you're asking questions, I think you're asking the wrong questions because they mislead you to think about issues that aren't as important as other issues I believe are more important.

#1: Rather than ask about the ISO, ask about the dynamic range in the scene relative to the camera's ability to record it. The histogram indicates lots of dark tones and bright tones that can't be recorded by the sensor. Though the mid tones can of course be recorded, there are relatively few of them. This characteristic of the scene and the camera's inability to record it is far more important to me than the ISO value.

#2: Rather than ask if the focus on the face is sufficient, ask about the net, which is by far the most important part of the image and is nicely captured. Then ask about the quality of light, which is still more important in my mind than the focus on the face. This image, while not great because of the quality of the light, is most definitely a keeper in my mind. The sweep of the net and the fact that the handle on the net has left the fisherman's hand are interesting to me. Unless you were floating by in a boat beyond your control (which was probably the case), surely the fisherman was repeatedly throwing his net and surely you would have had the time to make the ideal camera settings and capture many shots.

#3: Rather than ask about the shutter speed, ask (again) about the quality of light. It could have been a lot worse by being very harsh but it also could have been a little better by not being so flat and by rendering a little more shape to the children's faces.

The theme that you presented in your last two shots is that you weren't as prepared as you would have liked to be. When you're in an area you intend to photograph, have your camera prepared for the type of shot you want to make and/or for the type of scene you are most likely to come upon. For the type of photography that I generally do while traveling, I do this by setting my camera to Aperture Priority and Auto ISO. The Auto ISO setting includes the minimum shutter speed that will be used, which I decide upon by thinking about the shutter speed required to hand hold the focal length I am using and the shutter speed required to stop or blur the action I may encounter. The Auto ISO setting also includes the maximum ISO that will be used. I also have the aperture and exposure compensation set to ideally record the scene I am hoping to come upon.

The result is that the camera automatically determines the ISO required to capture each scene given the constraints of the aperture and exposure compensation settings and the minimum shutter speed made as part of the Auto ISO settings. If automatically changing the ISO to the maximum value I have set does not allow sufficient exposure, the camera then as a last resort sets the shutter at a lower value than the minimum setting I have made.

[scully]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your comments on these shots. The main thing that I am taking away from this is that my settings for "ready to shoot" have been with the aperture too low. I also will try auto ISO which I guess I have steered away from for the same reason I don't use the "sports" or "landscape" settings on my camera, control. Thanks also for the post processing work and advice, Simon.

Sometimes you just do not have time to set everything up and when you do, you can pull it off auto. Also Mike, yes, I was floating by in a boat:-)

Thanks again.

[Mike Buckley]

I also will try auto ISO which I guess I have steered away from for the same reason I don't use the "sports" or "landscape" settings on my camera, control.

Understandable. However, once you get into the details of understanding how Auto ISO functions and use it to your advantage, you'll appreciate that it's very much a custom setting that is very different from "sports" and "landscape" settings. I forgot to mention to always set your camera to its lowest ISO when you use Auto ISO. That's because one main advantage of using Auto ISO is that your camera will always use that base ISO when possible; it selects the lowest possible ISO given the constraints of all the other settings, and that's desirable whether you do it manually or let the camera do it automatically. The other main advantage is that you, not the camera, determines the minimum shutter speed. Highly customized.

[IzzieK]

Now that Nik software is free, it will be easier for you to lighten the dark areas of the fisherman's face. I love all the three first shots. The first one is an excellent shot. I've always wanted to do this kind of shot...

[scully]

Now that Nik software is free, it will be easier for you to lighten the dark areas of the fisherman's face. I love all the three first shots. The first one is an excellent shot. I've always wanted to do this kind of shot...

Thanks Izzie, I like the first shot too. If you want to do it, I can tell you what I do. If I am shooting at night I always set the AEB setting (the default exposure) so that it is about 1 stop underexposed. I then set the camera on Aperture rather than full Manual because you never have time to set everything yourself in these situations. It has to be "see it, aim, click and hope". The AEB setting does two things for me, first the camera does not try to make it look like the shot was taken in daylight and second, because it is underexposed you can use a faster speed. I always like to do this kind of street photography without a flash so that I get what I see in the viewfinder in the photo as much as possible. I hope that this helps. It's just what works for me, others may have a different idea.

[IzzieK]

On my holidays recently, I went all out to get comfortable with Shutter and Aperture Priority and also using bracketed shots. I am now in the process of editing gazillions of images. I will share soon, perhaps tomorrow, Monday even just to keep up with my P52 which is two weeks late already...and bugs too before Mark (Marlunn) kills me for making him wait. LOL

Thanks Izzie, I like the first shot too. If you want to do it, I can tell you what I do. If I am shooting at night I always set the AEB setting (the default exposure) so that it is about 1 stop underexposed. I then set the camera on Aperture rather than full Manual because you never have time to set everything yourself in these situations. It has to be "see it, aim, click and hope". The AEB setting does two things for me, first the camera does not try to make it look like the shot was taken in daylight and second, because it is underexposed you can use a faster speed. I always like to do this kind of street photography without a flash so that I get what I see in the viewfinder in the photo as much as possible. I hope that this helps. It's just what works for me, others may have a different idea.