Educate me about what flash on or off camera

[JBW]

Hi, last night a glorious Horn Beetle was on our patio. I had to use my camera flash and the result was to be expected. In the near future I will hopefully be purchasing a tamron 90 for hook up to my Sony Alpha a58 for macro work.

Suggestions on what flash set up makes the most sense?
brian

[rtbaum]

Off camera flash, as the lens itself blocks on-camera flash. I rarely ever use flash for my flowers, insects often require flash for faster shutter speeds for freezing motion.

[Stagecoach]

Hi Brian,

An off camera flash to the right or left pointed at the subject at around a 45 degree angle from above and to the side through a home made diffuser is one of the easiest and most common. Macro photographers tend to use a variety of different rigs depending on how they wish to light the subject, my personal favourite is to keep the backgrounds dark.

What was the result with the in camera flash that you got, exposure or specular highlight problems?

Grahame

[Manfred M]

Brian - let me get back to basics here. In photography, we tend to prefer soft, diffuse light when we light our subjects, rather than harsh light. This is why shooting at high noon on a sunny day generally does not give us particularly good results, but shooting in the hour (or minutes) after sunrise or before sunset, gives us that soft beautiful light sought after by both landscape and portrait photographers.

The hardness of light produces very harsh shadows. The reason for this is the size of the light source, relative to the subject is small. The sun (while it is huge, it is also very far away) on a sunny day around noon is a very small light source relative to the subject. We get the same thing with a light and reflector or on-camera flash (either the pop up flash built into your camera or a small flash (A.K.A. a speedlight)). These are all small light sources, relative to the subject and the light they produce is not particularly good for photography.

On the other hand, if you shoot on a cloudy day, the sunlight is diffused by a layer of clouds and there are no shadows. This has the opposite effect as our subjects are evenly illuminated; there are no shadows, so in portraiture work or landscape work, this is not particularly attractive lighting either, but for closeup shots of flowers or wildlife, it can be very good.

To emulate this good quality of light we either take our flash off-camera and use a light modifier like a photographic umbrella or softbox to increase the size of the light source. Bouncing the light off a white wall or ceiling does the same thing and gives you a large, soft light source.

Let's look at macro photography, where your subject is quite small. The on-camera flash or speedlights are actually relatively large light sources for these subjects. The smaller the subject, the larger these light sources are. For a flower the flash might still be too small a light source, but for an insect, the small flash is actually quite large, as long as it is fairly close to the subject.

This is where we get into having a problem. Both the pop-up flash or speedlight sit in an awkard spot for small subjects, they are not designed for shooting these subjects and throw the light well above it. The lens can / will block some of this light and as Randy points out, the lens will block the light from hitting the subject. There is a solution (and it is not inexpensive); a ring flash for macro work. where a specialized small flash unit with a number of flash heads around the lens are used to evenly illuminate a small subject. But beware when looking at ring flash - there are two types. One type is used for portraiture work and another is used for macro work. THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE.

I hope this gives you a brief overview on the subject.

[JBW]

Hi Brian,

An off camera flash to the right or left pointed at the subject at around a 45 degree angle from above and to the side through a home made diffuser is one of the easiest and most common. Macro photographers tend to use a variety of different rigs depending on how they wish to light the subject, my personal favourite is to keep the backgrounds dark.

What was the result with the in camera flash that you got, exposure or specular highlight problems?

Grahame

yes to both. I'll try to post it later.

[JBW]

Thanks Grumpy, I have been looking at the second ed. of light and magic and what you wrote helps me understand a bit more.

[AllEx]

Manfred described the most important things for Macro work. You mast allways avoid the light to hit the front of your lens, because of the size of your subject(s) you have to deal with the presence of the lens itself (it is close enough to your subject in Macro work) an of camera flash placed parallel to your lens would be a good idea. Many Macro shooters use mini balls (like pink-ponk halves) to illuminate the subject properly (all arownd), deffusion of the light in that scales is very important, experiment with various materials and layers of them. In terms of practise it`s better to shoot early in the morning or late in the afternoon, not only for illumination reasons but also for insect mobility ones, the mobility of the insects decreses wille the temperature is doing so (some clame that insects ceace to move in temperatures betwin 5-0 Cellcious)

[Manfred M]

Thanks Grumpy, I have been looking at the second ed. of light and magic and what you wrote helps me understand a bit more.

No problem, Brian - I think it is important to understand what is going on with lighting for any aspect of photography. Unless you understand how the lighting affects the subject, it's hard to figure out how to get the best image.

With macro work, the whole definition of size is different. A light source that is "small" in normal photography is large at the scale of an insect. I see other photographers frequently making these types of mistakes in normal photography; a small softbox that is sitting 10m / 30ft away from the subject might be "larger" than a direct flash at that distance, but it is still a "small" light source.

When it comes to any types of photography, there are no more than two types of light; direct and indirect (reflected). Once you understand this, the whole mystery of lighting suddenly makes sense.

[Saorsa]

On camera flash, particularly the popup is a problem with macro work because the lens can cast a shadow when you get close. Like this



I can sometimes use my SB-800 on top of the camera because it is high and can be tilted down 7 degrees but my favorite way of working is to use a cable.



This is particularly good for bugs in bushes since you can put the flash at one gap in the foliage and the lens at another.

Those come from a short write up on flash for closeups at my blog.

[DanK]

For bugs, I'd say pretty much what Grahame said. I'll re-post here a shot of my most common bug-hunting rig:



However, this is not ideal, given the difficulties you face. The flash adds weight and makes the whole thing rather awkward to hold. That's why I use a monopod--I'm just not steady enough without support.

If you google 'macro flash' without the quotes, you will probably find all sorts of innovative things people have used.

For flowers, you have more flexibility, because they don't run away. For example, you could put an external flash, with or without an umbrella, on a stand separately from the camera. For that matter, since you can use a tripod with flowers, even an arrangement like mine wouldn't be too hard to use. (I do most of my flowers indoors with continuous lighting.)

[rpcrowe]

Here are examples of a hotshoe mounted flash directly pointed at the subject (butterfly in this case) with the only diffuser being the wide angle grid of my 600EX RT flash. The lens is the first generation Tamron 90mm f/2.8 macro...





There is definitely a harsh shadow that the flash has thrown against the adobe wall on which the butterfly was resting...


However, here is a rig that I use for close up and macro photography...



This image illustrates my Siegelite articulating flash bracket with Canon 550EX flash modified with Lumiquest mini softbox. This bracket is no longer produced however, it is often available used on eBay (most often for less than $20 USD). The flash is connected to the camera with a Canon Off Camera Sync Cord. Both the cord and softbox are available as Chinese knock-offs from eBay at a very low price. This setup is shown on a tripod for illustration purposes but, I most often use it hand-held in order to follow the little creepy-crawlies which I photograph.

Thiee is the results with the above rig...



As you see, the shadow is far less defined because the lighting from the non-diffused hotshoe mounted flash.

[Dave Humphries]

While we're showing interesting devices for macro shooting here, I stumbled upon this recently:

Neewer® Versatile Flexible Two Metal Tube Adjustable LED Round Light Flash with LCD Display for Macro Close-up Photography Lighting,Fit Canon Nikon Sony and Other Standard Hot Shoe DSLR Camera.

It can function with continuous LED light, or in a 'flash' mode.
Lighting ratio (L vs R) can be effected by having them at different distances from the subject (or switching one side off).
For $40, that isn't too bad I thought.

Unfortunately, it is made for a standard hot shoe and the webpage has the warning "For Sony Camera that has a hotshoe of older model (than A7), you need to buy adapter additionally to use this product".

Cheers, Dave

[Geoff F]

There isn't any simple 'one size fits all' for flash photography, Brian.

For live insects, I use a standard design external flash unit directly mounted on the camera. I have successfully shot with the pop up flash, with care.

Because I shoot a lot of live insects I use a 180 mm macro lens often plus a 1.4x converter so I can achieve a reasonable sized image at 12 ins or further away. My subject is frequently lurking deep in the undergrowth so a straight forward 'normal' direct mounted flash unit gives me more capabilities.

Sometimes I add a Lastolite Mini Apollo over the flash head to widen the flash coverage and help to prevent any harsh shadows but that sort of thing isn't essential to begin with.

But working with a 90 mm lens you will have to get much closer which can present other issues.

Above all other suggestions, I say always set your camera with manual settings to suit the scene when using flash and vary the flash output compensation to suit the little variations in ambient light etc. Using the auto Through The Lens flash metering option. You will need to be careful over your Iso setting and change it if your flash compensation requirements are more than is available with the compensation settings. This becomes easy with practice.

Without shooting with manual camera settings your camera starts 'chasing its tail' with too many auto options which results in over flashed images at fully open aperture or overly dark results with a shutter speed which is too slow to hand hold.

When I first got an auto 'self thinking' flash I was using it in the same way as the old fixed output flashes and I got nowhere until I did a bit of thinking for myself and took control of my equipment; instead of the other way around.

Ring flashes can prove useful for close subjects but I'm not keen on them for live subjects which can be scared by a pair of large 'eyes' (flash heads) peering directly at them from a close distance. Also when my tripod takes one of its dives to ground level, a ring flash would be the first bit to take the impact.

But regarding flowers. Always, avoid flash; well nearly always anyway. Also avoid bright sunlight. During excessively bright conditions I use a difflector, or at a push, use a bit of shadow from my body. The downside, unfortunately, sometimes needs longer shutter speeds on a tripod.

[inkista]

... But regarding flowers. Always, avoid flash; well nearly always anyway. Also avoid bright sunlight...

OTOH, you can ignore that advice and win a Mini-Competition.


Panasonic DMC-GX7, Olympus m.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8.
iso 125. f/22. 1/200s. Off-camera bare YN-685 (Canon version) in my left hand, wide angle panel down, triggered with a YN-622C on camera.

It all depends on what you have to work with and the look you want to get. Hard light can look unnatural, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[JBW]

There isn't any simple 'one size fits all' for flash photography, Brian.

For live insects, I use a standard design external flash unit directly mounted on the camera. I have successfully shot with the pop up flash, with care.

Because I shoot a lot of live insects I use a 180 mm macro lens often plus a 1.4x converter so I can achieve a reasonable sized image at 12 ins or further away. My subject is frequently lurking deep in the undergrowth so a straight forward 'normal' direct mounted flash unit gives me more capabilities.

Sometimes I add a Lastolite Mini Apollo over the flash head to widen the flash coverage and help to prevent any harsh shadows but that sort of thing isn't essential to begin with.

But working with a 90 mm lens you will have to get much closer which can present other issues.

Above all other suggestions, I say always set your camera with manual settings to suit the scene when using flash and vary the flash output compensation to suit the little variations in ambient light etc. Using the auto Through The Lens flash metering option. You will need to be careful over your Iso setting and change it if your flash compensation requirements are more than is available with the compensation settings. This becomes easy with practice.

Without shooting with manual camera settings your camera starts 'chasing its tail' with too many auto options which results in over flashed images at fully open aperture or overly dark results with a shutter speed which is too slow to hand hold.

When I first got an auto 'self thinking' flash I was using it in the same way as the old fixed output flashes and I got nowhere until I did a bit of thinking for myself and took control of my equipment; instead of the other way around.

Ring flashes can prove useful for close subjects but I'm not keen on them for live subjects which can be scared by a pair of large 'eyes' (flash heads) peering directly at them from a close distance. Also when my tripod takes one of its dives to ground level, a ring flash would be the first bit to take the impact.

But regarding flowers. Always, avoid flash; well nearly always anyway. Also avoid bright sunlight. During excessively bright conditions I use a difflector, or at a push, use a bit of shadow from my body. The downside, unfortunately, sometimes needs longer shutter speeds on a tripod.

I was looking at the Tamron 180 macro but I thought it looked like a monster to handle.

Beginners questions: at 18" minimum focus distance would it work well on grasshoppers, butterflies, flowers, my usual type of stuff? Is the 14 degree angle of view too narrow?

Brian

[JBW]

Richard, as we have all of the beasties you posted in our garden as well your post was very handy. I can certainly see the difference. But how do you get close to anything in the bushes with that monster flash?

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Brian,

Beginners questions: at 18" minimum focus distance would it work well on grasshoppers, butterflies, flowers, my usual type of stuff? Is the 14 degree angle of view too narrow?

I think some of this may have been answered (by others) in another thread, but I'll say something here.

You will get 1:1 magnification at the minimum focus distance of 18 inches, so the size of the subject needs to fit within the rectangle of your sensor imagined where the bug is.
If the subject is bigger than your sensor, just move back a bit if you want to fit it all in the frame.

Grasshoppers - yes
Butterflies (and Moths) - yes - if you can get far enough away and still see the bigger ones you have there (i.e. without the bushes obstructing the view)
Flowers - as above, parts of - easy, whole flower, depends how big it is, but if big, just use the lens you do now.

But how do you get close to anything in the bushes with that monster flash?

Perhaps your bushes are more dense than Richard's
Obviously, there are limitations with a rig that size, that's why I linked to that smaller Neewer device with two LEDs on goosenecks, I thought they'd fit into you bushes quite well. However, I have no idea whether the light they'd provide would be adequate or suitable for bugs.

[Geoff F]

I can't really comment on the Tamron 180 macro as I have only used Sigma alternatives. Yes it is a bit on the heavy side, particularly the latest Sigma version; but for any serious macro work you will be using a tripod anyway, well at least a monopod.

The newer Sigma is stabilised so I have used it successfully handheld for those quick difficult angles on butterflies and dragonflies etc, but I mostly shoot with a tripod and manual focusing.

Although my lens states 18 ins as the minimum focusing distance that refers to auto focusing and I can reduce it to 12 ins when using manual focus.

Smaller lighter lenses are always better but the main advantages of a longer lens are for those nervous subjects which run/fly away as you approach and for flowers/fungi which are physically difficult to approach.

As an example, you have to get 9 ins from the subject with a 90 mm lens compared with 18 ins from a larger option. So for any circumstances where you can get just 6 ins away from the target I would prefer a smaller lens; for example studio work on dead or inanimate subjects. With larger creatures that aren't too flighty, 12 ins would be a perfectly acceptable shooting distance with a 90 mm.

The real difference comes when you can't get closer than 2 or 3 ft or in my case when I am shooting for identification and need to see the 'toes' of a 10 mm insect which is wary of me getting too close.

It really comes down to working out the expected size of your subjects and how close you can get to them. When photographing flowers/larger fungi I often find that my best option is to use the Tamron 24-70 lens.