Shooting glass product with embossed design

[waltzdarling]

Have been going crazy trying to wrap our hands around our problem for the past 2 weeks trying to find the right equipment settings, position our camera and lights for photoshoot. We need to take pictures of glass jars with embossed design over a white background so it can be easily swapped for transparent color and turned to .png image.

Our equipment is Canon EOS 5D Mark II and 2 flashes - Raylab Sprint II RTD-400 SS Creative Kit.

Problem is that embossment on the jars is not very sharp itself and thus when we photoshoot it tends to become invisible. We have tried to shoot with the background lighting set up behind our white background and front lighting set at the same time pointing towards the jar on the same level as the camera but get very poor results:



The embossment is being visible and the whole jar seems to be over-exposed or there is some problem with contrast and some problem with how object volume is perceived from the photo.

In the contrary we have tried other setting for our photo which is putting our 2 flashes on both sides of the object so it would form 45 degrees with both camera and the object itself:



With this setting the embossment visibility is very poor but the overall object perception seems better. However flash create very strong effect on the jar itself which is not very pleasant for the final result as well as we want it to put less accent on the flash showing up on the jar body just enough to show the object shape.

What we are trying to reproduce can be easily depicted by the following picture:



Please suggest us what changes to our light scheme we should make to get as close to the result as possible.

P.s. Please excuse us for probably noob question. Any help is highly appreciated!

[Shadowman]

Have you considered lighting from beneath, perhaps with a scanner bed? The last one looks presentable and it looks like you are well on your way to hitting it.

[waltzdarling]

What do you mean by scanner bed? Is it photo table? Something like this: http://www.falconeyes.com.hk/Product.aspx?id=248 with the flash put under it?

[Shadowman]

What do you mean by scanner bed? Is it photo table? Something like this: http://www.falconeyes.com.hk/Product.aspx?id=248 with the flash put under it?

Either that or an image/document scanner.

[Mike Buckley]

I haven't shot anything exactly like this but I've done similar photography. My first attempt would be as follows:

1. Position the camera so the background fills the frame (no more and no less).
2. Position the light source behind the background to evenly light it.
3. Position the subject as desired.
4. If needed adjust the height of the camera to ensure that the top of the subject is displayed slightly from above (to help create a feeling of three dimensions being displayed).
5. If you want some reflections to add interest to the glass as in your example photo, position one or more reflectors as desired.
6. Capture that image (ignoring the look of the metal top).
7. During post-processing, adjust the tabletop to be the same color as the background.
8. Light the metal top. I would probably use one light source and a reflector.
9. Capture that image (ignoring the look of everything other than the metal).
10. Merge the two images by transferring the metal top in the second capture to the other image.

By the way, congratulations on attempting to photograph perhaps the two most difficult materials to photograph -- metal and glass.

[loosecanon]

much of the image of a glass object is reflection and refraction. So much of what you see is not the glass but what surrounds your glass object, be it light sources or light modifiers.
The most common modifier is black card which when reflected or refracted gives black. So Bllack edges, black text and so on can be made by placing black card above, below or to the side of you object. Different widths of card will give different effects. White card will give white edges, but this is a less "natural" effect. the more directional the light the more the refraction within the glass object is seen

[xpatUSA]

In the third shot in the OP, isn't the direction of the lighting from the jars given by the highlights on the lids?

Alternatively, perhaps the original poster could start with a single light source (flashlight, torch?) and circle the jar with it until the desired contrast in the embossing is found (from the camera's point of view)? Then a second light source at a similar angle on the other side.

In shots of glass stuff for eBay, like Yes's post above, I have found better results with a dark Royal Blue fabric background.

[waltzdarling]

We are going to try to implement these suggestions as close as we can and would follow up with results. Thanks everyone for all thoughts on the subject!!

[IzzieK]

Just out of curiousity, why are you always saying "we"? Are you doing a class or you are the teacher?

[waltzdarling]

Not a teacher, shooting with my co-worker - we produce mason jars and need to shoot them for our new website. Earlier we used to hire professional photographers but then we decided to learn ourselves because we have all the equipment in our office and need to shoot mason jars and beverage dispensers almost everyday, making content for our Facebook and Instagram pages.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi,

Warm welcome to the CiC forums from me.

It occurs to me that in the example of someone else's work you chose, they had an easier task because the script was on a less rounded surface (as their jars have corners) than yours which are cylindrical. That said, they have the confusion of text on the far side which competes. None of this really helps you though.

Mike is certainly a very experienced glass shooter, so his advice should be tried before my 'thinking out loud' advice which follows, I've not tried these ideas, so they may not work.

I would suggest you try experimenting with continuous light sources (perhaps a couple of desk lamps, or small battery LED panels, so you can see** the effects of experimentation in real time (then substitute them with flashes to actually take the pictures). Once you gain experience, you won't need to do this everyday, particularly if the jars are similar sizes.

As (I think) one of your major problems is that any side light to reveal the embossing is masked around much of the circumference, trying to illuminate it from directly above or below might be worth trying, but you may need to very carefully flag the light source so it doesn't create problems elsewhere (e.g. inside the jar).

It is not just the placement of the light sources that is important, but also 'fill/bounce' cards (both white and black), plus 'flags'. I'd suggest trying some cut out shapes that mimic the size and shape of the sizes of jars you regularly shoot.

** You must obviously look through the camera's lens to judge success or otherwise of the placement of everything.

Cheers, Dave

PS
Could you do me a favour please?
Could you click Settings (right at the top),
then Edit Profile (on left)
and put just your first name in the Real Name field,
then click the Save Changes button below and to right,
this helps everyone give you more personal and relevant answers - thanks in advance.

[Mike Buckley]

Considering that you're going to be regularly photographing glass, I strongly recommend that you purchase the book, Light: Science & Magic. All of your issues are explained in it.

[waltzdarling]

Hello Dave! Thank you very much!