The Cowgirl

[KimC]

Thanks Mike. And thanks for helping me to look at it differently.

Both revised versions in my mind continue to display the grace and class of the original but are now consistent with the style that is typical of your images. The second one might work better on your business card for the simple reason that its increased magnification might be easier to enjoy when displayed at such a small size.

[KimC]

No Richard, as that's something on my list of things I need to learn from a PP perspective. I gave it a go, but the edges were not acceptable, so have more to learn. I love her hands and the lines in her body -- so graceful and soft. :-)

Have you thought of selecting the white background and adding just a bit of tint or color?

Besides beauty, this lady and your image exudes class! Even to the way her pinkie finger is extended on the reins...

[chauncey]

Hee, Hee, Hee...I wish she lived closer as well...

[KimC]

Hi Dave. I want to understand your comment better as I want to learn, and that's what this forum is all about. So let me explain my thinking and then you can tell me if there is a gap in it. As mentioned, I started this image from scratch again. When I was done processing in Capture One, it looked similar to Dem's. To me, in Dem's version, her entire black outfit stands out more and is very prominent. That didn't meet my vision for this image. To me, the image is about the beauty of the woman - her head; her beautiful soft hands, the lines the reins make, and the lines of her body. I didn't want her outfit to be the standout; I wanted it to be a beautiful blending.

I have a large MAC monitor - it looks the same on all my devices - phone etc.

Hi Kim,

I'm afraid I don't understand your desire for the 'flat' versions, I much prefer Dem's curves treatment, even over your reworked images.

In fact I almost wonder whether your monitor settings are misguiding you - is it profiled?
If so, could the brightness have got accidentally changed since last time?

Only trying to help, Dave

[KimC]

Thanks Dan. I actually prefer the cropped version, thanks to you/Richard's comments.

Much improved IMO, Kim. I like the cropped version even more. The tighter crop doesn't lose anything important in the image and shows more detail. Adjusting her position slightly left so that she is looking into the frame is an improvement also. Now it's a killer image like we're accustomed to seeing from you. Nice job.

[KimC]

Funny William, I saw some pictures of her from an event last weekend (I like to look at how others shoot the equestrian events so I can compare to mine), and I didn't recognize her. It's interesting how photographers can capture people so differently.

Hee, Hee, Hee...I wish she lived closer as well...

[Mike Buckley]

I'm curious, Kim: Do you keep an eye on the histogram as you post-process images and do you then use it as a guideline? The follow-up question: Did you realize the black and white points are so far away from the left and right sides, respectively, of the histogram?

There are no right or wrong answers to the above questions; there are only informative answers.

[Mike Buckley]

That didn't meet my vision for this image.

Bingo! Nothing else really matters.

[Marie Hass]

I wish I has responded sooner, but others lead you to the same edits as I thought of. Prefer the last cropped edit, as the lines are cleaner and allow the focus to be strictly on the rider. In your original, you have the distraction of the horses belly and flanks and what is under the belly and as you have already identified, the heavy vignette.

Nice job. The rider would be proud.

Marie

[Dave Humphries]

I have a large MAC monitor - it looks the same on all my devices - phone etc.

OK, so it's probably not the brightness mis-set then.

I also wondered whether you use the histogram in PP to set black and white points to be 'technically accurate'?


However, it is becoming clear that this is simply a matter of personal taste and I cannot argue with ...

That didn't meet my vision for this image.

Although you also say:

To me, the image is about the beauty of the woman - her head; her beautiful soft hands, the lines the reins make, and the lines of her body. I didn't want her outfit to be the standout; I wanted it to be a beautiful blending.

When I view the first version, the thing that screamed at me is the almost veiling flare/fog of the image's black point set too high and this was across the horse, numnah and her outfit, for me; that distracted me from the very things you wanted my attention on.

Given your stated aim, the cropped version (without vignette) is a definite major improvement and the black point troubles me less with that (i.e. I probably wouldn't have mentioned it if I'd seen only this version).

Regarding the crop; I might (if mine) have left a slither more across the bottom edge, so the crop wasn't across/through her knee joint - although I appreciate that potentially makes the "Delaware State" label more prominent, which is subdued well with your crop - and I also like how the rein goes in to the lower right corner in your crop.


I'm not familiar with On1, so cannot advise for that, but if I really wanted to accentuate "the beauty of the woman - her head; her beautiful soft hands, the lines the reins make, and the lines of her body." and "I didn't want her outfit to be the standout; I wanted it to be a beautiful blending.", then I would consider (using ACR/LR terminology) some dodging/burning, plus localised adjustments brushed in to increase clarity of some parts (e.g. her head; her beautiful soft hands, the lines the reins make, and the lines of her body) and reduce the clarity of others (e.g. her outfit).

Hope these additional thoughts are helpful, Dave

[KimC]

Hi Mike, when I am working on the RAW image, yes I do look at the histogram and use as a guideline. After I completed this image in RAW, and seeing the end result, and that it did not meet my vision, yes, I made a conscience decision to adjust those points and tweak a couple of other things.

I appreciate the questions, and I know it's helps others as well.

I'm curious, Kim: Do you keep an eye on the histogram as you post-process images and do you then use it as a guideline? The follow-up question: Did you realize the black and white points are so far away from the left and right sides, respectively, of the histogram?

There are no right or wrong answers to the above questions; there are only informative answers.

[KimC]

Thanks for commenting Marie. I agree, I prefer the cropped version now as well. :-)

I wish I has responded sooner, but others lead you to the same edits as I thought of. Prefer the last cropped edit, as the lines are cleaner and allow the focus to be strictly on the rider. In your original, you have the distraction of the horses belly and flanks and what is under the belly and as you have already identified, the heavy vignette.

Nice job. The rider would be proud.

Marie

[KimC]

Hi Dave. I did play with the crop some; however, as you mentioned it makes the label too prominent. It was also important to me that the rein came from the corner. For me, the crop was ok, since it wasn't right on her knee joint but a hint below.

Regarding the crop; I might (if mine) have left a slither more across the bottom edge, so the crop wasn't across/through her knee joint - although I appreciate that potentially makes the "Delaware State" label more prominent, which is subdued well with your crop - and I also like how the rein goes in to the lower right corner in your crop.

Thank you for the additional ideas Dave - I may try them at some point, but for "now", I like the cropped version the way it is. As I mentioned to Mike, my first step when doing PP is to "do it as correctly as I know how", and then I turn it into a JPEG and see what I think. Most of the time, even thou I may play with it some, it reverts back to the original version (how it was processed RAW), but there are some, that don't meet my vision, and I want to be a bit more artist on - this was one. Perhaps at some point, I'll go back and say "damn, what were you thinking", but for me experimentation is important as it helps with growth.

I appreciate the way this forum pushes my thinking, and that, has helped my growth substantially.

I'm not familiar with On1, so cannot advise for that, but if I really wanted to accentuate "the beauty of the woman - her head; her beautiful soft hands, the lines the reins make, and the lines of her body." and "I didn't want her outfit to be the standout; I wanted it to be a beautiful blending.", then I would consider (using ACR/LR terminology) some dodging/burning, plus localised adjustments brushed in to increase clarity of some parts (e.g. her head; her beautiful soft hands, the lines the reins make, and the lines of her body) and reduce the clarity of others (e.g. her outfit).

Hope these additional thoughts are helpful, Dave

[Mike Buckley]

Perhaps one thing to take into consideration is that other photo sites will go beyond the bounds of traditional black and white points more than CiC, so I'm not surprised that you got the reaction in this thread when you went beyond those bounds. On the other hand, considering that you want to consistently use a rather bold style, CiC should be nearly a perfect fit for you.

[bnnrcn]

Nice images Kim. Edited version with stronger blacks looks better

[KimC]

Yes, I'm still trying to figure that all out. I like that the challenging on this site is done in a respectful way, even if I head off the path... and I like to be challenged - photography can be isolating - it's not like life in the Corporate World where I had people to bounce thoughts off and to have helpful discussions.

Perhaps one thing to take into consideration is that other photo sites will go beyond the bounds of traditional black and white points more than CiC, so I'm not be surprised that you got the reaction in this thread when you went beyond those bounds. On the other hand, considering that you want to consistently use a rather bold style, CiC should be nearly a perfect fit for you.

[KimC]

Thanks for commenting Binnur - appreciate it.

Nice images Kim. Edited version with stronger blacks looks better

[madcrow]

There are lots of great edits but if it were mine I leave it alone.

[KimC]

Thanks Maurice for taking the time to comment. Yes, no more edits at this time.

There are lots of great edits but if it were mine I leave it alone.

[Brev00]

You can only work on an image so much and then one can lose the immediate connection one had when taking the picture. Personally, I would hope you do get to connect with her again. There is nothing like working the scene, having a chance to delve into a subject and take many images from different angles and perspectives. Here, I don't think anyone has mentioned the green roof of the building in the background. I would try to find a background without such distractions. In the original, her foot seems to be cropped. I might have tried a landscape orientation to get all of her and the horse. I would go either way: all of the horse for a full and relaxed composition or a tight closeup like your last edit. One reason I like the closeup is the way her body lines echo the frame and she is placed more dynamically on the side with her arms and legs forming clear diagonals. My eyes go more to her face and then down and the roof is less prominent in my viewing becoming more of a colored shape and less a distracting object. The more contrasty take that many prefer is an artistic choice. Given cloudy conditions, lack of contrast can be a natural component of such a shot and can be added to taste in pp. If you really want to emphasize the lines in the shot, consider a black and white conversion. A high key black and white can be a natural way to work with cloudy conditions. In this image, there is not much to the colors except for her skin tones and the little red part of her pony tail band and the conversion would eliminate the greens.