Subtopia (Series)

[Manfred M]

Ansel Adams also was a pictorialist for awhile though he later denied it. As for your thinking that Cameron's work wasn't due to focus blur, she came upon it by accident and liked it so much that she used it intentionally.

I had not read that but I'm not 100% surprised by that. She was an early photographic pioneer and as I have often suggested, much of what the well known photographers right into the 1950s and 1960s did would be looked down upon by the CiC membership as quaint and trite.

Have a look at some of Ernst Haas's work, the early colour pioneer and Magnum member. I remember the class reaction to his work when we were reviewing it and the general college class reaction was "my work is better than his" and for a number of the people in the class, I would have to say I agreed with them. Some pioneering photographers seem to be held in higher respect just out of historical context, rather than viewing their work under the modern lens. I do feel we need to understand the constraints that they were working under. They were coming up with the techniques that have evolved into what we do today and much of their work would have to be classified as "trial and error".

I will also be the first to admit that much of this is personal taste. I generally like many of the old masters, but certainly not all of them and certainly not all of their work. I remember being at an Ansel Adams exhibition a couple of years ago and remember looking at one of his best known works Moonrise, Hernandaz, New Mexico. It was an image that I had never particularly liked, yet one that a lot of people love. I had assumed that it just had not been reproduced all that well, and had hoped that seeing one of his prints, full size would finally reveal why is was such a beloved work. Nope - epic fail, I still don't like it and I fully agree that this is my personal taste.

I also remember visiting a Frederick H Evans exhibition at the National Gallery during my college composition course. Evans was considered one of the greatest architectural photographers (and worked during the same time period as the pictorialists) and was renowned for the quality of his work. Again, that gave me a good baseline as to what the equipment and photographic material of that period was capable of recording, and frankly we would refer to a lot of his work as "soft".

The other thing to consider is that photography goes through phases, much like fashions do. The pictorialists were at their height at the end of the 19th and early 20th century, after which they went out of fashion. I had always assumed they were pushing the limits on their tools, much as we do today, and these experiments did not always work out all that well.

[Mike Buckley]

I will also be the first to admit that much of this is personal taste.

Exactly. I would amend that to say that everything having to do with photography undertaken only for the sake of visual pleasure is a personal taste.

[tao2]

Hi Manfred,

let me edit this for ye...

much of what the well known photographers right into the 1950s and 1960s did would be looked down upon by SOME of the CiC membership as quaint and trite.

. Ah agree with ye re. "Moonrise". The later version, which subsequently became the standard print, doesn't do it for me either. The original and early versions contain much less contrast in the sky and moon. the moon is greyer as is the sky, more pleasing tae my eye.

FAO Matt,

Having read a couple of Ian Nairn's books and remember the TV series from the late 80s, ah get yer theme and understand the thinking behind it. Ah get the implied disconnect from the series of photos but can see no relevance tae the identity or character of the people who live in those areas, since....there are no people interacting in the landscape (Mebbe a subseries ?).

[Manfred M]

Thanks for the edit Boab.

Another excellent read on urbanization (and of course the urban planners and their ideas) and how it does not meet the needs of city dwellers is Jane Jacob's seminal work "The Death and Life of Great American Cities". While it is aimed at what was happening on my side of the Atlantic, the ideas and issues she identifies are easily transferable to the UK. The same types of "experts" who have fudged things up seem to be in ample supply in many Western cultures.

[Manfred M]

Exactly. I would amend that to say that everything having to do with photography undertaken only for the sake of visual pleasure is a personal taste.

I wouldn't stop at photography, Mike. Add any creative human endeavor - from art to architecture to engineering.

[tao2]

Thanks for the edit Boab.

Another excellent read on urbanization (and of course the urban planners and their ideas) and how it does not meet the needs of city dwellers is Jane Jacob's seminal work "The Death and Life of Great American Cities". While it is aimed at what was happening on my side of the Atlantic, the ideas and issues she identifies are easily transferable to the UK. The same types of "experts" who have fudged things up seem to be in ample supply in many Western cultures.

Hi Manfred,

Jane Jacobs was greatly influenced by Ian Nairn.

[Rebel]

This is one of the most carefully planned, executed and creative series I've seen in a long time. It held my attention for a long time and I could continue coming back to it time after time. Even so, I won't be surprised to learn that the series doesn't get a particularly strong reception here, as the participants here tend to be much more conservative in their taste and in their application of photographic guidelines.

For me, the last photo, though strong on its own, isn't a very good fit with the series. That's because it's the only one that is mostly bright (has few dark tones), because the inherent nature of the tunnel restricts our vision and thus limits the clues about what might be beyond the frame more than the others, and because it's the only image in which circles are so dominant (even more dominant than the manhole in the first image). As you continue to add more photos that fit your theme, adding more photos like the last one will solve the issue about it's fit with the other photos.

Mike, thank you for your comments - I was in 2 minds about whether keeping the last one in. I think I've done myself a disservice by keeping it in because it is pretty.

[Rebel]

Thanks for all the comments guys, I'd just like to add that these images were taken for a conceptual art degree.

So I knew they would get mixed feelings on here - who says I have to have the subject in focus? The course actually encourages to break out of the mold of traditional photography techniques - maybe I was a bit sneaky with that.

Anyway, obviously the images are there to be interpreted by each individual viewer - but this was my view on them after taking them:

"Reflecting on the images,I think the shallow depth of field in the images reinforces the idea that Britain’s suburban and sub-rural areas are losing their sense of individuality and are converging into one giant blur of as Nairn described “witless chaos”.

The low point of view adds to this and I think emphasises the concept that the spaces and places that surround us leave a lasting and powerful impression on our character and personalities. The images evoke the feeling that the “Subtopia” is hovering over the viewer at every corner. I find the theory interesting as in recent years there seems to have been a surge in the city/suburb population craving a retreat back to nature – visiting mountains, lakes, the coast etc."

[Rebel]

Hi Manfred,

let me edit this for ye...

. Ah agree with ye re. "Moonrise". The later version, which subsequently became the standard print, doesn't do it for me either. The original and early versions contain much less contrast in the sky and moon. the moon is greyer as is the sky, more pleasing tae my eye.

FAO Matt,

Having read a couple of Ian Nairn's books and remember the TV series from the late 80s, ah get yer theme and understand the thinking behind it. Ah get the implied disconnect from the series of photos but can see no relevance tae the identity or character of the people who live in those areas, since....there are no people interacting in the landscape (Mebbe a subseries ?).

No I think including people would be a bit obvious, although there are no people in the photos - there are traces of them.

[Rebel]

Hi Matt,

I also find the series intriguing and each image worthy of study.

Living in the same country, although I guess that might be open to debate much of this resonates with my locale; e.g. style of street furniture, road markings, et al.

#1
I like: how the light above the door on the end of the building is straining to get out through the railings. I also like the different effect the railings had on the gable boards of the building, although that may inpart be PP/sharpening induced? (due to the reflected light)
Ideas: I might crop a tiny slither from the top edge and reduce the foreground by 1/4 the distance to the front edge of the manhole cover. Talking of which, I wondered whether the scene might work better had the nearer edge been sharp instead of the furthest. That said, in a series, you don't really want them changing aspect ratios and the rest mainly work well as they are.

#2
I like: the clean WB of the LED (I assume) lit footbridge and the sodium background.
Ideas: I would, being a bit conventional, try it levelled or warped to straighten the RHS railings to vertical, but it may be that destroys part of the ambience.

#3
I like: the WB, gritty bokeh of the tarmac.
Ideas: Oddly I can live with the tilt on this one, perhaps because it's the same way both sides and looks intentional.

#4
I see a sign of rules top left and the likely action taken (weedkiller) where 'rules' are broken - dunno if that's what you saw here?

#5
Sadly a sign of the times - litter everywhere

#6
This could be titled "Life on the cant"
Ideas: the magenta and green banding in the sharpest areas is rather odd, if the cause is PP related, I'd have been tempted to desaturate that area to reduce it.

#7
Typical - that's about all I can say about this scene

#8
Another typical scene that could be almost anywhere in the UK.
I am distracted by the sharpening edges that have 'locked on' to the strip of bright, connected 'bokeh balls' across the tarmac from LHS to the car.

#9
I recall this location from other shots we've seen from you.
I like: the shadow of camera and you.

#10
Hey, it's Christmas!

#11
What I see here is the lighting to make the tunnel safer now results in the areas just outside being the darker spots, kind of the the inverse of what existed before.


Most of the compositions work well for me and somehow, amongst the subtopian chaos, you have managed to find framings that work for me, my attention remains within the images and loops around many times, seeing more each time.

There might be the odd specular highlight at the edge of frame in one or two that I might have cloned out (if mine), but respect that your intent might have been not to resort to such measures, so I haven't mentioned them.

Overall; in several, I see artefacts, caused by the lens and which global PP, particularly sharpening, has exacerbated, if I'd shot these I would be trying to reduce them, unless you see their inclusion as part of the work. Also of course, there's the fact that many viewers (especially outside CiC) won't even notice these things, or realise they are what they are.

Hope that's not over analysed them to death.

The common themes you have employed to make these a series don't need to be voiced by me, they're plain for all to see and they are your choices to make. Heck, it might even inspire me to have a go.

I do salute your commitment and achieving so many good compositions, not sure many could do it, especially given the need to visualise the image from these extremely low viewpoints (or spend a lot of time on the ground). I wondered to myself whether these were all shot within a limited circle from your home or workplace (say 300m), which might give the necessary familiarity to be able to visualise the compositions ahead of time.

Manfred mentioned adding light, I wondered in some, whether you had parked your car to illuminate some fg features, or perhaps taken advantage of a passing vehicle.

The ones I find myself returning to most are; err, most of them, OK, so the ones I find least engaging are: 7, 8 and 2

Cheers, Dave

Waw thanks for the thorough feedback


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[Rebel]

I join the party. I like them. This way of shooting has a big potential.

One remark. Keep the camera leveled. Probably difficult low to the ground, but you've the time. Or solve it in pp.
Looking forward.

George

Not to correct in in PP was a conscious decision


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[KimC]

I've come back to this series several times Matt. I think one image alone, wouldn't be as strong as the series. It makes me think and wonder about your message -- what do I take from it; was it the message the artist wanted to deliver?

Kudos to you for pushing yourself! You set a fine example for all of us that follow this forum. You could have stayed in your safety zone with your amazing landscapes (still think about the pony in the forest image), but instead, you push yourself to explore and develop!

[Rebel]

I've come back to this series several times Matt. I think one image alone, wouldn't be as strong as the series. It makes me think and wonder about your message -- what do I take from it; was it the message the artist wanted to deliver?

Kudos to you for pushing yourself! You set a fine example for all of us that follow this forum. You could have stayed in your safety zone with your amazing landscapes (still think about the pony in the forest image), but instead, you push yourself to explore and develop!

Thank you Kim, this is not a dig at anyone... but I think you would have to have spent time in environments like this to understand what I was trying to capture. Although this was a personal project, everyone interprets things differently - essentially its about seeing mundane spaces differently and I bet theres plenty of those in Connecticut

These were taken on a very neglected council estate I lived on until I was 7 and went back to visit.

Nice to hear from you by the way, hope the photography is going well

[Saorsa]

I can see why you took your approach to shooting these, but I don't think things are working out quite the way that you hoped.

Merely focusing on a foreground object does not suddenly turn it into the subject of the image, and by and large that is what you appear to be trying here. I suspect you need some additional visual tools, like additional lighting, to pull that off. So long as the backgrounds are a distraction or a more noticeable compositional element, they will be competing with the in-focus foreground element.

What might work here is using exposure (via flash) to get a well illuminated "subject" and work that against a soft and underexposed background.

I like the series. I think that if all were sharp the images would be completely mundane. In number 10, what does it matter what a store sells late at night. Kebab? Convenience? Whatever. To night people it is a magnet that draws them. To those unused to cities at night there is a frisson that appeals.

Most seem to have an odd spot of color in an unexpected place to give you a place to be drawn to or discover. Many of them would disappear into a sharp image.

Seen individually they are something I would quickly pass over but as a collection they become an interesting essay of sorts. I don't know if I would follow it for long but it is an interesting set as presented.