Lighting conundrum - Answers sought

[Donald]

I explained (in this thread) what I'm doing with a young couple who have a mobile food van on Kingsbarns Beach, about an hour from home.

The pic below shows that van in situ beside the beach. Look at the shadows. The point I want you to note is that the front of the van faces north-east (northern hemisphere) and gets no direct sunlight (well, it does at about 4am in June/July, but there aren't many people about at that time!).

THE QUESTION - So, facing the van, with glorious sunlight high up swinging around from at the 9 o'clock position to directly behind the van at the 12 o'clock position (this shot was at 1:33pm), how would you light the front of the van to make it look warm and sunny?

I have my 2 x 600w Lencarta Safari2 portable lights and one Canon 580 EXII Flashgun. I have triggers so that I can have the 2 heads and the Speedlite firing together.

I have umbrellas and softboxes and a barndoors set.

Would love to hear ideas and thoughts from you folks that have a lot more artificial lighting experience than me.

[Tronhard]

At the risk of being simplistic, how about using some gold reflectors on a day with sunlight? One thing I would say is significant is how far away from the van you are going to be - that would obviously impact of both direct (lighting from lights) and reflected light intensity on the van's surface...

[Donald]

All ideas, simplistic or not, are welcome.

I forgot to list a 5-way reflector is available as well.

[Mike Buckley]

If I wanted the front of the van to look warm and sunny, I would ask the owners to position it that way. However, it's understandable that they don't want their customers to have to stand in the heat, so they have positioned it so they stand in the shade. That's how I would photograph it.

[Tronhard]

...it's understandable that they don't want their customers to have to stand in the heat, ...

Does it actually GET that warm in Scotland? (he asked innocently!)

[Donald]

Does it actually GET that warm in Scotland? (he asked innocently!)

Now, that all depends on how you define 'warm'. Having folks wilt in the sun standing in line for a toasted sandwich is, it has to be admitted, probably something or a rarity. 25 degrees C (77 F), is a very, very good day here. Start getting above that and it's, 'Wow'; 'Phew'; 'This is what it was like when we were kids', territory.

[Shadowman]

What does the surface of that raised panel look like underneath? It is going to create some reflection on your subjects. Could you tape a reflector to that?

[Manfred M]

I few thoughts for you Donald:

Shooting on a sunny day at high noon (or 1:33 PM) is going to be a challenge. I have one large (5 ft) umbrella that might be almost large enough to use, but in my experience seashore areas tend to be a bit on the windy side and trying to use my large umbrella outdoors is really a non-starter in conditions like that. I figure it would get wrecked within the first 5 minutes.

What about taking shots when the light is better, i.e. golden hour. Turn on the interior lights and pop a bit of light from your large studio lights with the biggest light modifiers you have and gell theme with 1/2 cut of CTO to warm up the light? Heavy duty sandbags will be required for sure.

Another Golden Hour trick would be to light paint with your Speedlite and then blend the light painted image in post. One photographer who uses this technique really well is Mike Kelley; http://www.mpkelley.com/ But he tends to do multi-million dollar houses..

[Mike Buckley]

25 degrees C (77 F), is a very, very good day here.

That's the measurement taken in the shade. When in the sun, it can easily be in the 90s Fahrenheit. I'll take that wonderful sandwich, at least while standing in line waiting for it, in the shade, thank you very much!

[Donald]

Shooting on a sunny day at high noon (or 1:33 PM) is going to be a challenge.

I acknowledge that. This was really just for illustrative purposes. Unfortunately we're now into the time of year when golden hour is well into the evening, by which time the shack is closed up for the day. I have a window in which to shoot, at neither end of which is the ideal light time.

But, this is the fun and I'm doing something new. It's stretching me, it's fun and I get free toasted sandwiches.

[Mike Buckley]

It's stretching me, it's fun and I get free toasted sandwiches.

I understand; those toasted sandwiches would most definitely stretch the middle of my anatomy.

[xpatUSA]

I'm thinking a couple of very large white bed-sheets, angled (in elevation) halfway between the caravan and the sun when the sun is in the afternoon at say 40-50 degrees. No need to worry about the inverse law - the large (Lambertian) reflective area negates that to a good extent.

[Mike Buckley]

Large sheets in the wind at the beach? Not my idea of an ideal combination.

[Manfred M]

I'm thinking a couple of very large white bed-sheets, angled (in elevation) halfway between the caravan and the sun when the sun is in the afternoon at say 40-50 degrees. No need to worry about the inverse law - the large (Lambertian) reflective area negates that to a good extent.

Donald and his camera gear go wind surfing? This would make my fight with the wind and a 5-ft umbrella look like child's play.

[xpatUSA]

Large sheets in the wind at the beach? Not my idea of an ideal combination.

Ouch.

For some strange reason (common sense?) I thought it might be done on a calm-ish day, duh.

Looking again at the size of the snack van, even one small sheet might do it.

Your "ideal combination" would be . . . ?

[Mike Buckley]

Your ideal combination would be . . . ?

Already explained in my first post of the thread.

[xpatUSA]

Already explained in my first post of the thread.

" . . so they have positioned it so they stand in the shade. That's how I would photograph it."

I see. The Real World approach . .

[William W]

. . . a young couple who have a mobile food van on Kingsbarns Beach . . .The pic below shows that van in situ beside the beach. Look at the shadows. The point I want you to note is that the front of the van faces north-east (northern hemisphere) and gets no direct sunlight (well, it does at about 4am in June/July, but there aren't many people about at that time!). . .

how would you light the front of the van to make it look warm and sunny?

I wouldn’t. (specially "light" the front of the van). Too difficult.

In full backlit or toplit sun, on a glorious day, provided it is not close to sunset; the front of the van will be about 2 Stops under the exposure for the Background, perhaps a bit less.

Your Canon cameras would have at least ⅔Stop headroom and that would bring the front of the van to within 1 to 1½ Stops under the (correct exposure for) Background.

I’d shoot with the view to area selective raise the Exposure Slider and/or Shadow Slider and/or use the Dodging tool (I’d likely opt for Dodging).

The lighting I would be concerned about would be the INTERIOR of the van.

For ‘pop’ I’d think along the lines of a direct hard light Flash, face on and about 1 Stop under the Background Exposure. I reckon you could mount that under the awning.

I downloaded the sample image and just using exposure on the front of the van was about 1¾ Stops under the exposure on the side of the van.

This is a rough A/B, just using the Dodging Tool.

I wouldn’t worry about any Post Production of the shadow of the Van on the grass – having a strong shadow will add contrast to the van sitting on it; and will also add to the vision of a “Sunny Day”



WW

[rpcrowe]

I have always thought that placing the subject in the most favorable position before photographing it is the best way to go. A little artistic/poetic license goes a long way in MAKING rather then TAKING a photograph. I would try to figure out the very best position for light and the very best time of day to shoot. Unless the Shack will take up the greatest part of the image, a better background than just parked vehicles might be beneficial. Additionally, even though this is the way that the Shack is set up for day to day business, I would try to clear off the counter area and make it as pristine as possible. Finding an attractive family might also add some production value to your images. Using a good looking young man and woman as well as a pretty kid or two would be the way, IMO, to stage the image...

[Mike Buckley]

I like the idea of including the vehicles. One of the owners' goals is to attract people to the site. Displaying lots of cars in the parking lot indicates that it is a popular site worth visiting. Such an image would be just one of a group of images that tells the entire story about the location, venue and food.

If the photos are really important to the owners, I would try to convince them to invite a lot of people to stand in a long line indicating the shack's popularity and giving Donald plenty of time to make photos. The photos would include some close-ups of the food being handed to the posing customers. Everyone standing in line during the shoot would be given a free sandwich in return for their patience and time.

I would also try to convince the owners to make the shoot happen at the ideal time with the shack placed in the ideal position, even if that is at a time the shack is not normally open for business and if it is not normally placed as positioned for the shoot.