Sudden change in print darkness

[Mark Elder]

I have an Epson SC-P600 that I've been very happy with for last 14 months. I use Lightroom to print, typically on the Epson Hot Press Bright paper and have ICC profiles downloaded/installed for the printer/paper.

All has been fine until 2/3 weeks ago when I noticed prints were significantly "darker" than I expected (for example a perfect mono image on screen became a print with some shadows completely black). I can use LR's "Print Adjustment" (at 50%!) to get the mono back to looking like what I have on screen but with colour images they become washed out.

I went back to a colour image I printed 6 months ago and reprinted it with no changes (in case I was imagining things) and it confirmed something has changed radically in my printing process. For example a bright blue sky is now a dark navy colour. The change is very significant - much more than I see if deliberately change to the wrong ICC profile.

I've cleaned the printer's jets and run test prints.

Any ideas as to what setting I might have inadvertently changed? Must be a setting in the LR print module (or on the printer) because I can see from the LR history that I've not edited my color test image since the last print of 6 month ago.

Thanks for any help
Mark

[Manfred M]

Welcome to CiC Mark.

Have you made any changes to the screen settings? That is the usual culprit when it comes to the prints being too dark.

Your screen brightness should be in the 80 - 120 candela / square meter range.

[davidedric]

Also, make sure that you haven't accidentally switched to Lightroom and the printer managing the colour.

Dave

[Mark Elder]

Thanks both. (and thanks for the welcome).
I've two screens, in two different locations, and they are both showing colours as per my print from 6 moths ago. One of the monitors is an Ezio with automated calibration and I've re-run the calibration. Also I'm just reprinting an image without adjusting it on-screen.

I'm definitely using the colour management (profile) inside Lightroom and the printer dialog shows "color matching" as greyed out.

It is possible that the last successful print I did was on glossy paper (which I only rarely use). I've checked and I've set the printer and the print settings dialog to "Matte Black" (rather than "Photo Black" ink used for glossy). But I'm wondering if the printer has got confused and is using Photo Black on my matt paper.

[Manfred M]

I don’t print using Lightroom, so am not familiar with that workflow, but assume it is a simplified version of the Photoshop one. I’m not at home right now so can’t go look either. I’ve printed on the P600 and the workflow is similar to what I have on the 3880.

Check the print settings on both the Lightroom interface and the Epson interface to ensure that they are both using the same paper settings. Obviously the “printer manages color” needs to be disabled in the printer settings menu. The printer will select either the PK or MK black ink based on the paper type that has been selected.

I’m heading home in an hour or so and the drive will take at least 6-1/2 hours, so I won’t be able to have a look until late this afternoon my time.

[Mark Elder]

Thanks Manfred, no rush - I'm away from my printer now until weekend! I'm just eager to find the cause.

[James G]

Hi Mark,
Assuming you have not changed the brightness of your screen when recalibrating, I can't quite see why this change has occured for you if your ink/paper combinations have not changed.

I usually do have to apply brightening to images at the print stage otherwise they will be too dark. However it is generally a standard amount, and once determined, does not change.

I've provide a more detailed description of my set up below which may trigger an idea with you,

I too use SC-P600 printers. I have one dedicated to colour and the other for B&W, or more precisely for printing colour images using papers that require matte black ink.

I use Photoshop CC to process and print, and generally let Photoshop manage the printer. I prefer Canson and Permajet papers, rarely using Epson.
I have generated my own profles for each of the printer/paper options using a SpyderPrint system, since I use a Continuous Ink System (non-Epson inks) .

My monitor is a calibrated BenQ delivering 99% AdobeRGB.

I find that even at a screen brightness set as low as 105cd/m2 when calibrating the monitor, that prints wiill be too dark unless I increase brightness by 50% at the print stage.

The 50% value is in fact a starting point and depending on paper type is increased or lowered to get an 'optimised' value, using a test print.

Once I have established the value, it is then a 'standard' for the paper.

Ocassionally I shoot a subject which doesn't seem to fit the optiimum value and I need to run a futher image specific test print to get the right brightness, but that is quite rare.

[Shadowman]

Also, when was the last time you changed the print cartridges, they are specified to only last six months after opening. What are the ink levels in each, have you printed a test pattern lately?

[Mark Elder]

Also, when was the last time you changed the print cartridges, they are specified to only last six months after opening. What are the ink levels in each, have you printed a test pattern lately?

I was just wondering about that. Printer is now 14 months old and I've only needed to change 3 or 4 cartridges (I don't use it much) so more than half of them have been in there for way over 6 months.

Could that cause the print to be darker? (I can see how it might make it lighter, or gum up the jets).

Yes I printed a test pattern - one of the jets needed cleaning - ran the clean process and rechecked - now OK.

Some of the ink levels are quite low - I've been running it until it beeps at me and demands a new cartridge - is that wrong?

This is the first good printer I've ever owned.

[Manfred M]

Also, when was the last time you changed the print cartridges, they are specified to only last six months after opening.

Not actually true. I have several cartridges that are several years old and there is no noticeable deterioration in print quality.

What are the ink levels in each

Again, irrelevant as the printer will not print if any of the cartridges register as being empty. No ink would result in a lighter image, not a darker one. If the print is light, then a nozzle check is warranted.

[Shadowman]

Not actually true. I have several cartridges that are several years old and there is no noticeable deterioration in print quality.



Again, irrelevant as the printer will not print if any of the cartridges register as being empty. No ink would result in a lighter image, not a darker one. If the print is light, then a nozzle check is warranted.

Manfred,

I find it hard to believe that any particular ink cartridge would stay unused in your printer for that long.

[Manfred M]

There were several years where I printed less than once a month, so I have inks that are quite new and others that are ancient.

For the past three years I have been on the road travelling for 3 or 4 months in total, so very few prints got done. This year has been a very heavy print year for me and I'm well over 100 prints year to date.

[James G]

At the moment the only other thing that I can think of, since I have made the mistake myself is to check you have actually selected the correct paper profile in the drop down setting for the printer, and ensured 'Photoshop Manages Colors' is properly selected.
I've noticed that unless I'm using a preset that I have created and can call up, it is necessary to check every setting before commiting to the print.

I have made mistake of not checking that 'Photoshop manages color' is selected after I have set the required paper profile. For some reason I've never taken the time investigate properly, 'Printer manages color' can persist until I actively change it.

[Shadowman]

I was just wondering about that. Printer is now 14 months old and I've only needed to change 3 or 4 cartridges (I don't use it much) so more than half of them have been in there for way over 6 months.

Could that cause the print to be darker? (I can see how it might make it lighter, or gum up the jets).

Yes I printed a test pattern - one of the jets needed cleaning - ran the clean process and rechecked - now OK.

Some of the ink levels are quite low - I've been running it until it beeps at me and demands a new cartridge - is that wrong?

This is the first good printer I've ever owned.

Mark,

I run my printer until the warning symbol remains solid, if it is just blinking I will continue as normal. The only time the printer has refused to continue functioning is if I choose a thorough cleaning. Regarding the expiration time frame, I haven't exceeded it yet as I'm just 4 months in and still using most of the original cartridges. I have a feeling that some colors might exceed the six months time period but I've been printing at least once weekly since buying the printer. I wonder if it's possible for the inks to fall out of suspension over time and perhaps a safely done shaking might make the cartridges more fluid. I know some printers have an automated cartridge agitation feature but I don't think Epson does, however the head alignment might serve the same function if the printer is scheduled to do an alignment frequently.

[Manfred M]

I was just wondering about that. Printer is now 14 months old and I've only needed to change 3 or 4 cartridges (I don't use it much) so more than half of them have been in there for way over 6 months.

Could that cause the print to be darker? (I can see how it might make it lighter, or gum up the jets).

Yes I printed a test pattern - one of the jets needed cleaning - ran the clean process and rechecked - now OK.

Some of the ink levels are quite low - I've been running it until it beeps at me and demands a new cartridge - is that wrong?

This is the first good printer I've ever owned.

Mark - Epson tests its inks and paper with Wilhelm Research and when properly stored the inks and papers will in most instances last a lifetime. If archival storage techniques are used, lifetimes of over 200 years are pretty typical. These inks are quite robust. This makes me doubt the Epson claim of 6 months after opening and 2 years after manufacture for ink life. If a chemical reaction were part of the drying process, perhaps, but I'm suspicious that the stated shelf life is probably a lot higher.

As for agitation of the inks; have you watched the ink head carrier / shuttle in action. The inks get shaken up quite nicely every time one prints.

Finally, I have always waited until the printer stops before changing cartridges and have not seen any negative effects in print colour when I do so. The printer will stop printing when you run out of ink. I tend to get a replacement cartridge so that I have it on hand when the ink level drops below 5%.

The Wilhelm Research website is: http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/

[davidedric]

Mark,

When something odd occurs, the usual advice from Lightroom experts is to "trash" the preferences. I've had a couple of printing problems that went away when I did that - even though there was no obvious connection. If you haven't tried it, it would be worth a go.

Here's a how to guide: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/commu...updated.25197/

Dave

[DanK]

For the reasons given, I find it extremely unlikely that this has anything to do with inks. One possibility is a failure of the electronics in the printer. Short of that, which seems unlikely, it seems to me that the problem has to be somewhere in the chain of Lightroom settings.

An interesting diagnostic, if you haven't done this already, is to soft-proof a few of these images, being careful to use the identical specification of ICC profile and paper. If the soft proofs aren't dark, that would suggest that the problem is in one or more of the settings in the print module.

[Manfred M]

I agree Dan.

These pro printers have so many sensors and so much error checking built in that the only thing they can't detect is (a) if the user has put in the appropriate print parameters and (b) if the ink is actually hitting the paper properly (clogs, alignment, etc.).

I'm still suspicious that the screen is set too bright as that has been the issue in every case where someone has brought this to my attention so far. Auto-calibrating screens are fine, so long as the settings are correct.

Mark - Does your calibration software that comes with the Eizo screen you are using tell you the brightness setting (candela / square metre)? That is still the first place to look at. Could you please tell us what it is? Profiling and calibration are only as good as the instructions that have been sent to the software).

[James G]

I've had one final thought? it is worth checking if there has been an Epson Driver update, I'm assuming it has been applied automatically.

If so it would explain a change. If it were the case, recalibrating from end to end is probably in order.

[Manfred M]

I've had one final thought? it is worth checking if there has been an Epson Driver update, I'm assuming it has been applied automatically.

If so it would explain a change. If it were the case, recalibrating from end to end is probably in order.

Anything is possible James, but most of the changes I have seen are very minor tweaks and bug fixes, so to see such a drastic change would be a bit surprising. That being said, if there is a printer bug that causes this issue, it would be worthwhile updating the driver AND applying any firmware updates.

If the P600 drivers are handled in the same way as for the 3880, then they are not applied automatically, but must be downloaded and manually installed from the Epson website. The same thing is true about firmware updates and a the software needed to update the firmware. The Support section of the Epson website will have this information.

https://epson.ca/Support/Printers/Si...SPT_C11CE21201