Slow print problem and brain fade

[davidedric]

Referring back to my earlier thread - it was indeed impending senility.

I had set up the printer to use the software provided profiles - but I'd done it in the wrong place.

I'd gone direct to Settings and forgotten that it has to be done within Lightroom - doh!

Any way, all is now well, and the colours are much improved too!

Thanks for your help, and apologies for wasting time.

Dave

[Manfred M]

Dave - carefully said, the paper settings have to be done in two places.

The first place will be in Lightroom, where the correct paper / printer ICC profile has to be selected to ensure (a) Lightroom controls the colours of the output and (b) that it uses the correct profile to do so.

The second place is in the printer control software. Here one must ensure that the printer driver does not control colours (having both the printer and Lightroom fighting which one is in charge will cause problems with the colours), so one has to disable the "printer controls colour" functionality. As well, the print driver has to be told what type of paper is being used to control the platen gap and print drying time. This data is set by setting the correct paper inside the printer controller on your computer. If you are using one of the manufacturer's papers, this is relatively easy as they are listed in the software. If you are using a third party paper, then an equivalent paper must be selected. The paper manufacturer will generally specify this somewhere on their website when you download the printer / paper ICC profile or they may specify this in the instructions shipped with the box of paper.


B&W prints have a similar, but slightly different approach. Here it is best to let the printer manage colours, and this has to be set in Lightroom. Correspondingly, the second step of specifying the correct paper and telling the printer controller to handle the B&W has to be set as well.

This two step process is a bit of a pain as not two printers seem to have identical printer control software...

[Donald]

.... it was indeed impending senility.

Seems to be a problem relating to getting things working the way you expect them to.

I haven't seen anything on WEX or B & H that offers an instant fix. But I think that a new version (Brain II) seems to offer a solution. So, it is just like any piece of photographic equipment - Get the latest version and you'll be a much better photographer.

[davidedric]

Thanks, Manfredc- but there are actually three places, I think.

The first, as you say, is to select the right paper profile within Lightroom. I use third party papers with the suppliers custom profiles created from a calibration print I send them, so they are listed and easy to pick.

The second as you say is in the printer control software, but what i had forgotten is that there is one set for Lightroom which has to be set within Lightroom. That's the one that is now correct, and is the one selected by default if I print from Lightroom.

The third place is in the general settings. So outside of Lightroom if I go direct to Settings there is a configuration for general printing showing the printer handling colour (and plain paper, for example) which is also what I want.

I don't pretend to know how all this is handled, but it seems now seems fine to me.

I've never had to go into the ink drying time and other lower level settings, since high quality and photo paper seem to work fine.

Cheers, Dave

EDIT: I also downloaded a newer set of drivers which are supposed to better manage colour gradations.

[DanK]

Dave,

I'm confused, but this may be because I don't recall whether you use a Mac or a PC. I use a PC.

I use a PC, and I have never had to deal with the third place.

As it happens, I have uninstalled my old photo printer, and my new one is sitting on the floor in a 70 pound box waiting for me to install it, so I can't look at a dedicated photo printer. However, I do have a Canon TS9000, a multipurpose printer, hooked up, so I looked there. When I go to printer settings via the OS, I get a dialog that includes a choice labeled "printing preferences". When I call that up, it takes me right back to the dialogs for Canon's firmware--the same ones I would access if I went to printer properties in Lightroom to turn off color management. So, I think I have been taking care of that by setting the appropriate settings in Lightroom. I'll have to test that once I have my new printer installed.

However, I wonder whether doing this via printer settings in the OS would make the change sticky.

Dan

[Manfred M]

Dave - I'm very much in the same boat as Dan here. The third option, with my computer, leads me to exactly the same place as the second option you mention. I suspect it is little more than a default print manager that was designed to be called when the manufacturer's print control software did not handle certain functions. I checked both my Epson photo printer and my Lexmark colour laser printers and both seem to by-pass the operating system's print spooler and driver software.

I print photos on both Mac and Windows hardware and have never had to go to that particular part of the printer controls

[davidedric]

I'm still puzzled. It may not be important, but I don't like not understanding. Here's a screen shot of two printer preferences dialogues (they actually have different names, which may be a clue, though they refer to the same printer).




The first is going through the OS, Settings and so on, the second through Lightroom. They are obviously different, and I have no idea why

[Manfred M]

It looks like two different views of the same Canon printer selection menu; the only difference that we see seem to be the paper settings. I have no idea why the two different settings can be seen on what is essentially the same piece of software. I've just checked and Epson software behaves exactly the same way.

I find if I follow the workflow of setting the print settings in the order described; first in the editing software and then in the printer driver software, the print turns out correctly.

[george013]

I'm still puzzled. It may not be important, but I don't like not understanding. Here's a screen shot of two printer preferences dialogues (they actually have different names, which may be a clue, though they refer to the same printer).




The first is going through the OS, Settings and so on, the second through Lightroom. They are obviously different, and I have no idea why

Look in your OS settings what printers are installed.
Is it so difficult to explain what you mean with printer module?

George

[davidedric]

Thanks, Manfred, I much appreciate your staying with this. As you say, so long as we can get the results we want, we should be happy. I think it's just the scientist in me (though if I were starting over, maybe I would pursue engineering).

Best regards, Dave

[davidedric]

Yes, I know what printers are installed.

If you use Lightroom, what is meant by the printer module is obvious. If you don't, let's just say it's the tab you select when you want to print something, and select among the myriad of options.

Dave

Look in your OS settings what printers are installed.
Is it so difficult to explain what you mean with printer module?

George

[george013]

Have you checked the printers in the configuration tab?
From the other thread

Whatever the format of the image file, when you invoke the Print module Lightroom takes over so I am printing from RAW.

This doesn't make sens to me. Not the way you wrote this down here. I read this as if you initiate a print command from outside LR and than LR is started.

George

[Manfred M]

Thanks, Manfred, I much appreciate your staying with this. As you say, so long as we can get the results we want, we should be happy. I think it's just the scientist in me (though if I were starting over, maybe I would pursue engineering).

Best regards, Dave

As an engineer, I am quite convinced that computer scientists and engineers should never design user interfaces.

Unfortunately they do, so we get to figure out how best to use them...

[DanK]

Dave,

I would have to do some tests to confirm, but I think what you see when you access that dialog via Windows is the default settings for the printer that Windows apps will use. What you are seeing in Lightroom is the settings you are imposing for that job. These will override the defaults while you are printing in LR.

At least, that's what I think is going on. What I can say with more assurance that in years of printing photos with two versions of Windows (7 and 10) and 3 different Canon photo printers, I have never once had to bother with setting the printer settings via the OS. I almost always print from LR, and I set the properties there.

Dan

[Manfred M]

Have you checked the printers in the configuration tab?
From the other thread
This doesn't make sens to me. Not the way you wrote this down here. I read this as if you initiate a print command from outside LR and than LR is started.

George

George - all of the functionality in Lightroom is arranged in something that Adobe refers to as Modules. There is a Library Module, a Develop Module, a Print Module, etc. All of the printing commands are found in the Lightroom Print Module.

When we are doing prints of photographs we have an additional level of control that one does not find with other types of printing. We are trying to get optimal results with regard to how the colours reproduce. The photo editing software lets us work with colour profile data (ICC profiles) that the paper manufacturer has prepared using a photospectometer that is very specific to the printer ink set and photo paper characteristics. This is the first set of information that we set inside the editing software. Dave uses Lightroom and I use Photoshop, so our processes are slightly different.

Having done that, we have to disable the colour management module of the printer driver. The printer also has some default data, but in general this is not as good as what we get with the ICC profiles. The printer manufacturer also only has the data for the paper that they sell, so if we want to use a third party paper manufacturer, this presents issues when using the built-in paper profiles.

The printer driver also has to understand things like paper thickness so that it can determine the proper position of the print head and the paper characteristics like drying time so that the ink does not smear. These settings can only be made with the printer driver software, hence the two step process.

[george013]

George - all of the functionality in Lightroom is arranged in something that Adobe refers to as Modules. There is a Library Module, a Develop Module, a Print Module, etc. All of the printing commands are found in the Lightroom Print Module.

When we are doing prints of photographs we have an additional level of control that one does not find with other types of printing. We are trying to get optimal results with regard to how the colours reproduce. The photo editing software lets us work with colour profile data (ICC profiles) that the paper manufacturer has prepared using a photospectometer that is very specific to the printer ink set and photo paper characteristics. This is the first set of information that we set inside the editing software. Dave uses Lightroom and I use Photoshop, so our processes are slightly different.

Having done that, we have to disable the colour management module of the printer driver. The printer also has some default data, but in general this is not as good as what we get with the ICC profiles. The printer manufacturer also only has the data for the paper that they sell, so if we want to use a third party paper manufacturer, this presents issues when using the built-in paper profiles.

The printer driver also has to understand things like paper thickness so that it can determine the proper position of the print head and the paper characteristics like drying time so that the ink does not smear. These settings can only be made with the printer driver software, hence the two step process.

I see. I don't have LR.
Just a guess. He opens LR, selects an image, and prints. In this case LR has to load and convert the image first. That takes time. I just wonder what would happen if he first opens LR and then start printing. And if the printing is one constant process.
Another check wold be to print a JPG from a browser like IView. You don't have to convert and you don't need LR. Just to nail where the problem arises. One could try to print a text file or PDF. Is there no graphic mode in the settings of the printer?

Good luck.

George

[Manfred M]

I see. I don't have LR.
Just a guess. He opens LR, selects an image, and prints. In this case LR has to load and convert the image first. That takes time. I just wonder what would happen if he first opens LR and then start printing. And if the printing is one constant process.
Another check wold be to print a JPG from a browser like IView. You don't have to convert and you don't need LR. Just to nail where the problem arises. One could try to print a text file or PDF. Is there no graphic mode in the settings of the printer?

Good luck.

George

George you and I are writing about completely different topics.

Dave has already done all the work on his image and is only looking at sending the image to his printer. The issues we have been writing about are purely about the settings that have to be made in Lightroom AND to the printer driver. These steps are unique to inkjet photo printers when printing on photo papers. These steps are not necessary when printing on laser printers or regular inkjet printers.