How to improve seeing the editing details?

[ErikB13]

Hello,

I've been new to photography this year. I've been watching vidoes on working with photo editing. I get what they are doing, but when I am doing it on my own, I have a hard time seeing the elements that most do. I understand with experience comes a better vision. I understand what highlights, shadows, and midtones are. Is there any resources or articles to help me be able to look at photograph and know what parts I need to edit for it to look correct? I think this has been the most frustrating part about learning photo editing, just not being able to look at the photo and know off the bat what needs to be fix unless its something that very obvious. Is there a term for this that I can look up to help see the edits that are needed to enhance the photo? Any advice would be greatly appreciated from a newcomer.

thanks,

Erik

[Donald]

Erik, I suggest you stop thinking of this as part of editing an image and, instead, think of it as part of the first phase of photography - capturing the image. It is in capturing phase that you should be seeing all that you need do when it comes to editing.

You ask if there anything you can study to help you see what you need to do. Study art. Look at other photographers work, look at the paintings of the great artists. What they do and what you want to learn is about playing with light. No book or video tutorial is going to make you see that. You need to develop that photographers eye.

There is no secret to it that you have to discover. It is the growth of your vision and your ability to see.

[Polar01]

Erik you stated, "to look correct?", there is only one person who knows how it should look, and that is you, not me, or anyone else for that matter. That is the beauty of photography you could have 10 photographers use the same image, when they are done you will have ten different takes on the image. I would say 8 would be close, however 2 will have taken the image to a completely different place so who is correct. It takes time to define your vision and that is shown in mastering your post production skills. Later on sometimes even before you have taken the shot, you will know exactly where you are taking that image, it does not happen a lot, however when it does it is a beautiful thing. Practice getting the composition in the frame you are happy with, and work on post so you can take the shot to where you want it to go.


Cheers: Allan

[Geoff F]

You could have a look at these articles by Ron Bigelow

https://www.picturecorrect.com/authors/ron-bigelow/

For me, internet based you tube type tutorials are a waste of time because they never fully 'sink in' to my memory; so I need printed material which I can keep referring back to until everything slowly makes sense.

There are a few really good fully comprehensive books available; for example those by Martin Evening and other well known authors. Well at least they are well known in photographic circles.

Try posting a few of your images here, including original straight from camera images, and ask 'What would you do with these?' You will find that everybody will have a different suggestion because there is never a 'one size fits all' answer to personal opinions about photographs.

[CatherineA]

Hi Erik,
I'm new to photography too. I'm not sure if this is relevant to your type of photography or your taste, but I'll pass this on in case it makes you as happy as it made me. I had taken a photo of a canal and it was a pretty scene with barges and a bridge, swooping birds and a sky that was full of interesting clouds and colour. But when I looked at the image it lacked something and I couldn't see what changes I could have made to the composition to improve it (I'm sure there are some, but it looked pretty good to me!)

I had taken care of the global changes such as white balance etc. and it was as good as it was going to get on that score. Then someone I met who spends untold hours editing used the adjustment brush to brighten certain small areas - a barge, a shrub, anywhere that you would want a viewer's eye drawn to. It didn't take a minute but it transformed the image. And, it was an "ah-ha" moment for me in terms of understanding the importance of light and shadow (in that photo I didn't darken anything but I consider both now). There is nothing like seeing the effects in your own work to bring home a message.

Thinking of the light and shadow has also given me another way to try and connect with a piece of art that moves me. I know that it is only one of the considerations when we do that, but such an important one for those who of us who photograph.

[Manfred M]

Welcome to CiC Erik.

It's a bit challenging to make specific comments without seeing the image you are writing about, so posting it here so others can see and comment on it is something I would recommend. Posting instructions can be found here:

HELP THREAD: How can I post images here?

I would also suggest you study the works of the great masters of the past; Ansel Adams for landscapes, Edward Weston for still life work, Yousef Karsh for portraits and Henri Cartier-Bresson for street photography. All of these photographers used very simple cameras (by today's standards) and had their work processed in a darkroom that did not give the post-processing power we have in current software.

The rest is experience and practice. As you become more experienced as a photographer, you will start seeing light and shadows a lot differently. The same goes for a captured image and you will see areas that can be reworked to give a strong image. Often what seems to be a relatively uninteresting image when one first looks at it, can be brought out to be absolutely brilliant once you figure out how to do it. As Donald has suggested, the process starts with the capture and post-processing has to be considered when you capture the image.

[Shadowman]

I like checking out Kelby's image review show "the Grid", he and his guests offer tips and suggestions on photographer's images, most of the choices or corrections Kelby or guest make I probably wouldn't do, but following the show will give you an idea of what some photographers think are methods of improving your image. Taking "the Grid" concept another step, you could also attend a few photography workshops and bring along some of your images for review.

[ErikB13]

Thank you for the feedback, I will take a look at their work.

[davidedric]

Hi Erik,

There's lots of good advice there. In addition, though, you have to be able to create your vision in part by using the editing tools you have available. That is specific to the tools you are using. I think it will be helpful at some stage to say what those tools are.

Dave

[DanK]

I think this has been the most frustrating part about learning photo editing, just not being able to look at the photo and know off the bat what needs to be fix unless its something that very obvious.

That's not a technical question. For want of a better term, it's an artistic one. The technical ones follow, e.g., "it seems drab and doesn't have much contrast. What edits can help with that?"

People here offer suggestions of both sorts, but you have to post specific images.

I agree with Donald: a good starting place is looking at the work of established photographers. Some won't be to your liking. There are photographers whose work is hanging in museums who produce stuff that I would throw out. But when you find one whose work grabs you, study it to see what they did. A class might help to get started.

For example, I have always loved impressionist art. At least once a year, I visit the collection at the Clark Institute in Williamstown, MA. I think some visitors think I am eccentric because I often use my hands (from a distance, of course) to try to quantify where the artists but elements of the composition.

One of the photographers whose work has always impressed me is Edward Weston. I have a book of his photos on a table in my house, and every so often, I pick it up again and look at a few of his.

[pschlute]

A good starting point would be to look at the tutorials on this site regarding the histogram https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...istograms1.htm

They are aimed at getting you to get the exposure correct at the point of capture, but looking at the histogram while editing is essential too.

It is also important to understand that the classic "bell curve" is not what you are aiming for in all circumstances. High key and Low key scenes will have very different shaped histograms.

[ErikB13]

Thanks, I've have started to look up photographers that do landscape and macro, which are the areas that most interest me. I am starting to get a feel for what type of tones and colors I am drawn to.

[Rufus]

It is also important to understand that the classic "bell curve" is not what you are aiming for in all circumstances. High key and Low key scenes will have very different shaped histograms.

So true, Peter; and it is helpful to state this.

I was, for a long time, under the misapprehension that the normal distribution bell curve would make the best picture.

[Manfred M]

They are aimed at getting you to get the exposure correct at the point of capture, but looking at the histogram while editing is essential too.

Agreed as we want to ensure that, in most cases, we try to preserve the general shape of the histogram. Often it is beneficial to stretch the captured histogram in post-processing to increase the tonal range of the image by adjusting the black point and / or the white point. That being said, the histogram is a global measurement and shows global edits well. Zone and local edits, which are often the important aspects, often have a minor and even negligible impact on the histogram.

It is also important to understand that the classic "bell curve" is not what you are aiming for in all circumstances. High key and Low key scenes will have very different shaped histograms.

I'm not sure I would agree with this statement. A histogram shows the distribution of data in the image and nothing more, so it is really something that shows us what has been captured, so there is no "ideal" histogram that a photographer aims for. I'm really not sure where the idea of the bell curve being "correct" comes from when looking at a histogram as it really makes no sense. An image that has few dark areas and few light areas and a lot of mid-tone values can, in some circumstances take something that has that shape, but the majority of scenes likely do not, much like your comments regarding high key and low key images.

If one looks at the individual channels histograms, these are fairly representative of what is happening with each channel of the edit. The luminosity histogram is a calculated value that takes 30% of the red values, 59% of the green values and 11% of the blue values and overlays this data into a single view of the image data.

[rpcrowe]

Erik...

There is a massive amount of information available on YouTube regarding editing photos. Perhaps there is so much that it might become confusing...

I consider Kelby's Photoshop for Travel Photographers to be rather good and not at all specific to travel photography...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIt1cDw5lLI&t=2041s

Here is a collection of basic photo editing videos using Photoshop.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+photoshop+cc+

If you use some other editing program, you could do a YouTube search using that program as a search parameter such as "Basic Photo Editing with ***"

I would suspect that the answer to your query is really in three parts:

1. What makes a good image? Color, composition, exposure, contrast, etc. etc.... These considerations have been around for as long as there has been photography and were considerations in painting and drawing long before the advent of cameras.

2. How to capture the best image possible in-camera. Post processing is not a magic panacea. IMO, you need to know how to handle your camera to get the best possible starting point.

3. Finally, how to manage your post processing program to get the best possible result from your image. I like the many YouTube videos from PhLearn:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ials+beginners
and PixImpefect
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+photoshop+101

Good luck, have fun and don't get frustrated...

[ErikB13]

I would really like to thank you all for the feedback and responding. All this information is helpful for me to keep trying to improve and not get discourage.

[JBW]

I will make you a promise: post your shots to CiC, ask for advice, apply what people suggest, figure out what advice works for you. If you do all of that your photography will improve.

Photography is a journey. Enjoy.

[DanK]

I would really like to thank you all for the feedback and responding. All this information is helpful for me to keep trying to improve and not get discourage.

Don't let yourself get discouraged. It seems overwhelming at first because there are so many options and so many opinions. My advice is to take one step at a time. For example, with one friend who wanted instruction, I focused at first just on tonality adjustments--changing the white and black points, applying a curve to increase contrast, etc. We worked on those until he could say that he wanted to do X and knew that tool Y would let him do it. Then he could practice that on his own and move on to the next thing--say, sharpening, or something else.

[Manfred M]

Erik - when it comes to post-processing, one of the most important things to do is to develop a systematic workflow, i.e. develop a methodology that works for you and use it all the time. In general, the best suggestion I have gotten is to do things in the following order:

1. Global changes - i.e do adjustments and edits that impact the entire image first. This would include cropping the shot, straightening the shot, fixing perspective distortion as well as making global brightness and colour adjustments;

2. Do area changes next - this would be large areas like sky or water or anything that takes up a substantial amount of the image. This is also the stage where "surgery" might be performed if there are large areas that need fixing. Removing power lines that cross much of the image would fall into this category; and

3. Local adjustments - small changes to elements in the image that need tweaking. I probably spend 80% - 90% of my editing time working on these types of things. This would include dodging and burning, local sharpening, etc. in small, isolated parts of the image.

[ErikB13]

Manfred , I will give this workflow a try. I’ve read some workflows that are similar to yours. I often use this time to play with sliders and try to see tones better.