2019 P52 - 1st Qtr - Sandy(Skitterbug)

[skitterbug]

So begins the new year of projects. My goal is always geared toward improvement and the only way I will is by continuing to explore the various areas of photography. So I am not locking myself into any theme. It will be whatever happens for that week. Hopefully, I am timely in my posts but again, I am not making promises that I'll be consistent.

One thing I do want to work on is post processing process so I may post before/after photos to garner suggestions from the group. Obviously, I've already been doing PP but my work flow is a disaster when it comes to editing.

Improvement - my key word for the New Year of 2019! I also plan to enjoy what comes! Endure the hardships and come out on top!

Wishing everyone a very Happy and Successful New Year of 2019!

[Shadowman]

Hi Sandy,

Happy New Year, regarding your workflow what was your source of inspiration and was it inspired by/geared towards a particular software package? I ask because for most software packages it also depends on your source of tutorials and which medium (text, hands on, video) you are most comfortable with. For me its a combination of text and video for starters and the hands on is when I start to practice what I've learned. My tutorials started with text and I got a good formulaic workflow from Scott Kelby for Elements and Lightroom and for Nik software through Tony Corbell and for printing through Steinmueller and Gulbins.

[skitterbug]

Hi Sandy,

Happy New Year, regarding your workflow what was your source of inspiration and was it inspired by/geared towards a particular software package? I ask because for most software packages it also depends on your source of tutorials and which medium (text, hands on, video) you are most comfortable with. For me its a combination of text and video for starters and the hands on is when I start to practice what I've learned. My tutorials started with text and I got a good formulaic workflow from Scott Kelby for Elements and Lightroom and for Nik software through Tony Corbell and for printing through Steinmueller and Gulbins.

Hi John - To start my reply, I'm chuckling because of the applications I have regarding photo processing:

1. Aurora HDR
2. Luminar
3. Raw Therapee
4. Gimp
5. Apple Photo
6. Adobe Elements 6 that I never did figure out very well
7. Lightroom 6 that I use to import photos for the start of my viewing process and some digital processing
8. Digital Photo Professional 4 that I also use to view photos to see where my focus point actually ended up
9. NIK free apps
10. Affinity Photo
11. Snapheal

Whew.... I didn't realize how many I've tried over time! My history of photography was first quite casual. I'd take photos and be extremely disappointed with the results. Film wasn't my friend because it was expensive to send in for developing. By the time I got the photos returned, I'd forgotten what I had done. Digital has been a blessing but even that start was rocky. I didn't realize that a file size made a difference. And so does how one stores these files! Some of my early keepers have been lost due to poor organization.

During my exploration of photo apps, I realized I didn't really care for those that take over the process. I don't really like HDR stuff but it probably has its place and that some of the free stuff is harder than I want especially because there isn't decent documentation for it without a lot of hunting the web. Sometimes the apps are more complicated than I can understand - Gimp being one of those. My main apps to use now are Lightroom 6 and Affinity Photo.

I learn best by being shown how to do something so videos are first in line for information (decent presentations), next is text geared to explanation and photos to show results and last is the manual that is included with whatever gear or application that I happen to decide to try.

I'll definitely check out the three sources you listed. I'm game to learn. I don't mind studying so long as I understand what I am studying! <lol> That's where having mentors available is a plus!

Thanks for replying!

[Shadowman]

Hi John - To start my reply, I'm chuckling because of the applications I have regarding photo processing:

1. Aurora HDR
2. Luminar
3. Raw Therapee
4. Gimp
5. Apple Photo
6. Adobe Elements 6 that I never did figure out very well
7. Lightroom 6 that I use to import photos for the start of my viewing process and some digital processing
8. Digital Photo Professional 4 that I also use to view photos to see where my focus point actually ended up
9. NIK free apps
10. Affinity Photo
11. Snapheal

Whew.... I didn't realize how many I've tried over time! My history of photography was first quite casual. I'd take photos and be extremely disappointed with the results. Film wasn't my friend because it was expensive to send in for developing. By the time I got the photos returned, I'd forgotten what I had done. Digital has been a blessing but even that start was rocky. I didn't realize that a file size made a difference. And so does how one stores these files! Some of my early keepers have been lost due to poor organization.

During my exploration of photo apps, I realized I didn't really care for those that take over the process. I don't really like HDR stuff but it probably has its place and that some of the free stuff is harder than I want especially because there isn't decent documentation for it without a lot of hunting the web. Sometimes the apps are more complicated than I can understand - Gimp being one of those. My main apps to use now are Lightroom 6 and Affinity Photo.

I learn best by being shown how to do something so videos are first in line for information (decent presentations), next is text geared to explanation and photos to show results and last is the manual that is included with whatever gear or application that I happen to decide to try.

I'll definitely check out the three sources you listed. I'm game to learn. I don't mind studying so long as I understand what I am studying! <lol> That's where having mentors available is a plus!

Thanks for replying!

Hi Sandy,

Thanks for the reply, I think the Kelby and Corbell text will be most helpful, especially Kelby as his instructions will get you through the RAW processing as well as the Photoshop (Elements/LR) tools.

[Urbanflyer]

Hi John - To start my reply, I'm chuckling because of the applications I have regarding photo processing:

1. Aurora HDR
2. Luminar
3. Raw Therapee
4. Gimp
5. Apple Photo
6. Adobe Elements 6 that I never did figure out very well
7. Lightroom 6 that I use to import photos for the start of my viewing process and some digital processing
8. Digital Photo Professional 4 that I also use to view photos to see where my focus point actually ended up
9. NIK free apps
10. Affinity Photo
11. Snapheal

Whew.... I didn't realize how many I've tried over time! My history of photography was first quite casual. I'd take photos and be extremely disappointed with the results. Film wasn't my friend because it was expensive to send in for developing. By the time I got the photos returned, I'd forgotten what I had done. Digital has been a blessing but even that start was rocky. I didn't realize that a file size made a difference. And so does how one stores these files! Some of my early keepers have been lost due to poor organization.

During my exploration of photo apps, I realized I didn't really care for those that take over the process. I don't really like HDR stuff but it probably has its place and that some of the free stuff is harder than I want especially because there isn't decent documentation for it without a lot of hunting the web. Sometimes the apps are more complicated than I can understand - Gimp being one of those. My main apps to use now are Lightroom 6 and Affinity Photo.

I learn best by being shown how to do something so videos are first in line for information (decent presentations), next is text geared to explanation and photos to show results and last is the manual that is included with whatever gear or application that I happen to decide to try.

I'll definitely check out the three sources you listed. I'm game to learn. I don't mind studying so long as I understand what I am studying! <lol> That's where having mentors available is a plus!

Thanks for replying!

Our local library provides free access to all of Lynda.com. I have found that really useful!

[Manfred M]

Sandy - when it comes to post-processing, developing a consistent workflow is one way to improve your post-processing skills. This does not mean doing exactly the same thing to each image, but rather following a specific order. That will help you to achieve more consistent results as you gain experience.

Another part of the approach that most people recommend is to start with the global adjustments, move on to area adjustments and finally work on the small local areas.

I would also suggest that you try to limit the number of tools that you use so that you get very good at using them. I have a set of tools that I use in a particular way for about 90% of my edits and will use some of the others for very specific reasons where they have strengths and give me results I cannot achieve with my normal tool set.

If you are shooting in raw, there are two different workflows and depending on which way you go, you will eventually find a workflow that works well for you. The two approaches are to do most things in the raw convertor and only use a pixel based editor for things you cannot do in the raw convertor. The second workflow is that you do as little with the raw convertor as possible and do the bulk of your edits in a pixel based editor, applying a non-destructive workflow.

[DanK]

Sandy,

Manfred beat me to it. I would pare the list WAY down, for three reasons. First, there is a lot of duplication in your list. Second, it is very had to become really fluent in any software unless one uses it a lot, which is a strong argument for narrowing down at first. Third, having too many options makes it harder to develop a consistent workflow.

If I don't need to focus stack

I would say that over 95% of my postprocessing makes use of only 4 packages, and I almost never use all 4:

1. Lightroom.
2. Photoshop
3. Zerene (for stacking)
4. Nik (rarely, for special effects or to use the control-point approach rather than selections).

My workflow is consistent and usually very simple. I do everything I can in Lightroom. In many cases, this is sufficient. When it isn't, I move the image to photoshop. For the large majority of photos, use nothing else.

If I am going to stack, I export TIFFs from LR after setting white balance, stack, and return the composite to Lightroom. Then I continue as above.

In the rare cases I want Nik, I call it either from Lightroom or Photoshop.

I dislike the grungy HDR look, but when I have to merge photos because the scene exceeds the dynamic range of the sensor, I use either the "HDR merge" function in Lightroom or a lightroom exposure fusion plug-in called LR Enfuse.

I'm not suggesting these are necessarily the best choices for everyone. There is a lot of argument, for example, about the pros and cons of various raw conversion software packages. My point is that restricting myself to 4 packages allows me to do almost everything I want, even some very specialized work. And I am now pretty adept at using them because I have concentrated my time on them.

One you are really fluent with one set, you can add additional options for specialized reasons (as Manfred has done).

[Geoff F]

After trying various software, Sandy, I have settled on the CC version of Photoshop. Not cheap, but it does everything I will ever need and more besides. So if you add up all the other bits and pieces which probably get renewed every couple of years the cost of Photoshop isn't really too bad.

It comes with Lightroom, which I never use, and the focus stacking option is as good as I have found anywhere else. Adobe ACR, which is included, does all the raw processing. I would recommend also getting the free optional Bridge software which does everything that I would use in Lightroom; but I find it far easier and more logical to use for viewing or moving around my images and folders etc.

[Cantab]

My workflow is consistent and usually very simple. I do everything I can in Lightroom. In many cases, this is sufficient. When it isn't, I move the image to photoshop. For the large majority of photos, use nothing else.

Dan's comment describes my process.

[skitterbug]

RE: post 4 - Thank you John!

[skitterbug]

RE: post 5

Our local library provides free access to all of Lynda.com. I have found that really useful!

Hi Judith - Our library just added this very informative site mid-way through 2018. I've signed in but I haven't started to investigate the Photo area yet. I plan too and your nudge reminds me that it is there to use. Thank you!

[skitterbug]

Sandy - when it comes to post-processing, developing a consistent workflow is one way to improve your post-processing skills. This does not mean doing exactly the same thing to each image, but rather following a specific order. That will help you to achieve more consistent results as you gain experience.

Another part of the approach that most people recommend is to start with the global adjustments, move on to area adjustments and finally work on the small local areas.

I would also suggest that you try to limit the number of tools that you use so that you get very good at using them. I have a set of tools that I use in a particular way for about 90% of my edits and will use some of the others for very specific reasons where they have strengths and give me results I cannot achieve with my normal tool set.

If you are shooting in raw, there are two different workflows and depending on which way you go, you will eventually find a workflow that works well for you. The two approaches are to do most things in the raw convertor and only use a pixel based editor for things you cannot do in the raw convertor. The second workflow is that you do as little with the raw convertor as possible and do the bulk of your edits in a pixel based editor, applying a non-destructive workflow.

Hi Manfred - I appreciate the idea of dealing with 'global' then 'area' and then 'small' adjustments. I'd not really thought about working in RAW much but will give that a look. One thing that I have done after making a shambles of my organization of images in my early years, is save my RAW files to a separate EX HD and then work on a second set that has been imported into Lightroom as copies. I never save work over the originals. I can then always go back and start over if I feel the need.

I don't use all those photo apps. I listed those for John to show what I've used over the last 10+ years. I think that anyone just beginning on the journey into Photography maybe could use help in suggestions about apps to use. For my learning experience, I'd gone it on my own until frustration set in and then I found CiC in 2011.

Thanks for your guidance!

[skitterbug]

RE: Post 7 Hi Dan - As explained to Manfred, I don't use all of those photo apps for PP. I've pretty much whittled my 'go to' post processing apps to Lightroom and Affinity Photo. I found that Affinity can do what I want so the rest of the apps linger on the sideline. I keep them all around because some of them are paid for and maybe they may come in handy for odds and ends. They will eventually become obsolete though, because I won't update them. The nice part about Affinity (so far) is that updates are free. I would imagine that the software company will eventually have to have a complete make over of Affinity to keep up with computer operating systems and newer ideas. Then I would expect a requirement of money. Until then, I enjoy that there isn't any additional costs to use Affinity.

I've also made the effort to learn about how Affinity works, what tools it has, etc. I noted that it does have an area to work on RAW files as well.

I appreciate your explanation of your workflow and the applications you use. Information all helps with my development! Thank you for taking time to sort through your own photo processing/application uses and sharing them!

[skitterbug]

Re: Post 8 - Hi Geoff - It would have been nice if I had started in Photoshop when I first began my adventure in photography but the cost always held me back. It certainly does contain all that is helpful when it comes to post processing, etc. It is a solid piece of software.

Fortunately, I finally found Affinity and its usefulness and I don't mind that I missed out on Photoshop. Being involved in computers, I smile that Photoshop actually returned to the client/server model and has captured a paying audience. And you are right, it still isn't cheap but yes, it is an excellent software! But I don't really want to lock myself into a company that I have to pay a monthly subscription to be able to use its software.

I may eventually have to investigate a stacking software package I but am hopeful that Affinity has this feature. I think it does but how good it is, I've no idea.

Thank you for sharing your ideas about Photoshop. I always appreciate your knowledge and helpfulness!

[skitterbug]

Re: Post 9 - Hi Bruce - it isn't stated, but I am assuming that both you and Dan are subscribers to the online Lightroom/Photoshop software? I like Lightroom but my updates stop at version 6+ and once it becomes outdated, its usefulness to me will end. So I am delving into Affinity and am counting on that company to not 'let me down'! I've put quite a bit of effort learning what I have about it so far and think my focus will remain with it for my post processing needs.

My First Improvement Change! Affinity doesn't contain a photo organizer, so
Step 1: import my RAW images to an external hard drive.
Step 2: sort through them using Digital Photo Professional to see what I may want to keep/toss.
Step 3: open the image in Affinity and save it to a separate file to be able to do PP work.

And so the year begins anew! Thank you Bruce for your supportive and helpful comments! It should be another fun year!

[Rufus]

I shall follow your 2019 Project with great interest, Sandy, as I have been atttempting to codify my own PP workflow in recent months having recently embraced Lightroom for most of it and transferring to Photoshop if/when necessary. Others here are in a far better position to advise than I am, but I am sure i shall chip in along the way.

Good luck with your 2019 project!

[Cantab]

Sandy, no, I do not use the subscription LR or Photoshop. I use LR6+ and Photoshop CS6.

I purchased CS6 before the subscription version was introduced and have had no need to abandon it. One day I’ll probably acquire a camera that LR6+ won’t work with but until then I’m saving money every month by using my existing paid for software. I did the arithmetic when I needed to upgrade from LR5 (or perhaps 4). It was clear I’d relatively quickly be ahead of the game by paying the one time upgrade cost versus the monthly subscription fee.

[Manfred M]

I appreciate the idea of dealing with 'global' then 'area' and then 'small' adjustments. I'd not really thought about working in RAW much but will give that a look.

It doesn't matter what image format you are using, the process steps should still be the same. If you are using JPEGs you will have less data to work with (8-bit per channel versus 14-bits per channel for raw data). You will also the white balance (colour temperature data) and the colour space you are using "baked in" to the file.

One thing that I have done after making a shambles of my organization of images in my early years, is save my RAW files to a separate EX HD and then work on a second set that has been imported into Lightroom as copies. I never save work over the originals.

If you are using raw data, it is NEVER changed by Lightroom. It stores any edits in either a sidecar (.xmp) or in the catalog, depending on how you have Lightroom set up. You can't overwrite the raw data. If you are using image files, for instance JPEG or TIFF, then these are overwritten.

[billtils]

RE: Post 7 Hi Dan - As explained to Manfred, I don't use all of those photo apps for PP. I've pretty much whittled my 'go to' post processing apps to Lightroom and Affinity Photo. I found that Affinity can do what I want so the rest of the apps linger on the sideline. I keep them all around because some of them are paid for and maybe they may come in handy for odds and ends. They will eventually become obsolete though, because I won't update them. The nice part about Affinity (so far) is that updates are free. I would imagine that the software company will eventually have to have a complete make over of Affinity to keep up with computer operating systems and newer ideas. Then I would expect a requirement of money. Until then, I enjoy that there isn't any additional costs to use Affinity.

I've also made the effort to learn about how Affinity works, what tools it has, etc. I noted that it does have an area to work on RAW files as well.

I appreciate your explanation of your workflow and the applications you use. Information all helps with my development! Thank you for taking time to sort through your own photo processing/application uses and sharing them!

+1 to all of that Sandy.

[billtils]

I may eventually have to investigate a stacking software package I but am hopeful that Affinity has this feature. I think it does but how good it is,

Sandy

Yes it does have a stacking routine. I thought it was quite good until I looked more seriously at Zerene ...