How to tone down that whicker basket

[Rufus]

I am exprimenting and trying to reduce the brightness of the bicycle basket in foreground of this picture with a local adjustment. I would really appreciate some help with two questions.

Q1. When selecting the basket would you be inclined to expand the selection or feather it?

Q2. I am selecting just the basket and using a layer mask. I have tried a curves adjustment and I have tried an exposure adjustment but neither seem to get a nice midtone for it like the other baskets in the picture. How might I achieve this? Or is it the starting point so bright that I should not expect to achieve this?

Many thanks.

[Manfred M]

How's this?





I selected the basket and created a curves adjustment layer and darkened the mid-point about 1/2 stop and applied a Gaussian blur to the mask. I kept duplicating the adjustment layer until I felt the basket looked right, although I reduced the opacity of the last one to around 50%

[Shadowman]

I like it as presented but you probably don't want the basket to be the center of interest, have you tried using the adjustment brush in LR?

[Manfred M]

I like it as presented but you probably don't want the basket to be the center of interest, have you tried using the adjustment brush in LR?

LR / ACR are not tools that are particularly good for local adjustments. This is definitely the realm of Photoshop and other pixel based editors that allow for very specific area adjustments especially through the use of adjustment layers and layer masks.

[Shadowman]

LR / ACR are not tools that are particularly good for local adjustments. This is definitely the realm of Photoshop and other pixel based editors that allow for very specific area adjustments especially through the use of adjustment layers and layer masks.

The Auto Mask feature in LR does a decent job and can be helpful for those who don't use Photoshop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9nDzi4ZG6g

[FootLoose]

Q1. When selecting the basket would you be inclined to expand the selection or feather it?

That depends on the accuracy of your selection. It might be the case that you need to contract the selection. How are you making the selection? Pen tool? Lasso tool? Quick selection tool? Do you zoom in to make your selections so you can see clearly what you are doing? If you made your selection with the Quick selection tool, for example, while viewing the image at the size shown on screen here, then you should zoom in to 100-150% to see how accurate your selection is and then decide whether you need to expand or contract the selection.

I find it is generally - and I stress generally - a good idea to feather selections. The amount depends on the subject and the photo but it may be only a pixel or two. And that still applies when expanding or contracting the selection.

That said, I don't think you need to tone it down too much, certainly not to the extent that Manfred has. The lightest area of an image tends to draw the viewers' attention and in this photograph the brightest area is the background. But the background here also has the least detail, so the viewer is pulled past the interesting foreground lines and shapes and straight through to the "chaotic" background.

If this were my image I would consider cropping it at about the level of the basket that is an inch or so from the top of frame. Then the brighter foreground basket would hold the viewer in the area of greatest detail and act as a contrast in tone and shape and lines.

[Manfred M]

The Auto Mask feature in LR does a decent job and can be helpful for those who don't use Photoshop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9nDzi4ZG6g

I know all about Automask and it is a decent option if the user only uses Lightroom. The moment one uses Photoshop, as David does, then there are far more and far better options available.

[proseak]

Did you try colourising it?

[pnodrog]

I use both LR and Photoshop when necessary. For this adjustment I would probably just use LR. With adjustment brush set to 90 to 100% opacity I would quickly (over) select basket leaving a small margin around it if I was being a bit clumsy or in a hurry and then set opacity of adjustment brush to 0% and remove any mask that went beyond the basket. This technique can be just about as accurate for this type of simple selection as Photoshop. Once the area is accurately defined the exposure, contrast, highlight, shadow etc settings can be set according to requirements. Rather then displaying the mask I often have the exposure set rather extremely when doing the selection so it is easy to see. Just do the fine adjustments after I am happy with selection.

For ultra critical work Photoshop is my choice but for these relatively easy types of adjustments I find it unnecessary to exit LR. Preferred work flow etc probably has more bearing on choice of editing tools rather than capability.

[Rufus]

...I selected the basket and created a curves adjustment layer and darkened the mid-point about 1/2 stop and applied a Gaussian blur to the mask. I kept duplicating the adjustment layer until I felt the basket looked right, although I reduced the opacity of the last one to around 50%...

That is really helpful and yes, it is indeed what I had in mind, Manfred. I was using a single layer and was probably being too heavy handed with the adjustment as well; but I also see that you have used luminosity blend mode which I had not considered.

Then there is the Gaussian blur. I have used this in the past but would not have considered duplicating a layer where it had been used, so I shall experiment and see to what extent the duplication increases the blur effect.

[Manfred M]

That is really helpful and yes, it is indeed what I had in mind, Manfred. I was using a single layer and was probably being too heavy handed with the adjustment as well; but I also see that you have used luminosity blend mode which I had not considered.

Then there is the Gaussian blur. I have used this in the past but would not have considered duplicating a layer where it had been used, so I shall experiment and see to what extent the duplication increases the blur effect.

Being a B&W image, the normal blend mode would have given the same results.

I find that using multiple applications of a fairly gentle layer mask and adjustment layer tends to work better than doing a really heavy lift in trying to do it in one shot.

The Gaussian blur on the layer mask has more or less the same effect as feathering as what I am trying to achieve is a smoother transition between the masked and unmasked areas. As a general rule, the smallest amount of blur that smooths the mask works best, otherwise it is all to easy to introduce halos.

[Rufus]

The Auto Mask feature in LR does a decent job and can be helpful for those who don't use Photoshop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9nDzi4ZG6g

Thank you for posting the link to the Auto Masking video. It has reminded me how to make LR adjustments more localised I was shown this technique once but my brain had overwritten that bit of my memory!

My own workflow is still in a state of constant flux so I use a fluid mix of LR and then PS. I imagine the Auto Masking in LR could well avoid the need to use PS on some occasions.

[Rufus]

Did you try colourising it?

Oh I think the penny has dropped...I think you are suggesting I could try colour popping the basket to make it the subject. That would be an interesting way around the brightness problem.

BTW I hope yours is not one of the less well looked after Cambridge bicycles in the shot.

[Rufus]

...How are you making the selection?...Do you zoom in to make your selections so you can see clearly what you are doing?...

I find it is generally - and I stress generally - a good idea to feather selections. The amount depends on the subject and the photo but it may be only a pixel or two. And that still applies when expanding or contracting the selection.

That said, I don't think you need to tone it down too much, certainly not to the extent that Manfred has. The lightest area of an image tends to draw the viewers' attention and in this photograph the brightest area is the background. But the background here also has the least detail, so the viewer is pulled past the interesting foreground lines and shapes and straight through to the "chaotic" background.

If this were my image I would consider cropping it at about the level of the basket that is an inch or so from the top of frame. Then the brighter foreground basket would hold the viewer in the area of greatest detail and act as a contrast in tone and shape and lines.

I feel the quality of my editing is restricted by poor my selecting skills. I do zoom in to see more detail of the selection's edges and did so with this image. I was making the selection with the Quick Selection tool. This is my default choice which I may then augment with others.

I have picked up from fellow club members that Feathering is generally "a good thing to do" but I will bear in mind that a pixel or two may be all that is needed. I gather that expanding/contracting selections can help some issues but I have yet find out in what circumstances that applies.

I agree with what you say about the backround and cropping away some of the top of the image. I will certainly adopt that approach if I take the image further.

Thank you for some helpful comments, Greg.

[Rufus]

I use both LR and Photoshop when necessary. For this adjustment I would probably just use LR. With adjustment brush set to 90 to 100% opacity I would quickly (over) select basket leaving a small margin around it if I was being a bit clumsy or in a hurry and then set opacity of adjustment brush to 0% and remove any mask that went beyond the basket. This technique can be just about as accurate for this type of simple selection as Photoshop. Once the area is accurately defined the exposure, contrast, highlight, shadow etc settings can be set according to requirements. Rather then displaying the mask I often have the exposure set rather extremely when doing the selection so it is easy to see. Just do the fine adjustments after I am happy with selection.

For ultra critical work Photoshop is my choice but for these relatively easy types of adjustments I find it unnecessary to exit LR. Preferred work flow etc probably has more bearing on choice of editing tools rather than capability.

Paul, thank you for the insight to the finer aspects of how to use LR in this context. As mentioned earlier, I also mix LR and PS but am still too much of a novice to have settled upon a preferred workflow, but it is gradually developing and tips like this are great help along the road to enlightenment.

[Manfred M]

There tend to be two schools of thought on Lightroom / ACR versus Photoshop.

The first approach is to use ACR / Lightroom as much as possible and only use Photoshop for issues that cannot be done in ACR / Lightroom. The second school uses ACR / Lightroom only as a raw converter and then do as much in Photoshop as possible. Then of course there is everything in between.

People who tend to primarily prepare images for web-based output will tend to the first approach and people who make prints tend to use the second.

[rpcrowe]

Ten second fix...

NIK Viveza - control point on basket - adjust circle to cover basket - decrease brightness slider - increase structure slider - save as JPEG



You could easily adjust the brightness to get basket darker - simply decrease the brightness slider...

[Rufus]

Ten second fix...

NIK Viveza - control point on basket - adjust circle to cover basket - decrease brightness slider - increase structure slider - save as JPEG



You could easily adjust the brightness to get basket darker - simply decrease the brightness slider...

Richard - you have maintained the weave of the basket which I rather like, and yes, I would probably adjust the brightness a little more than you have.

I don't have Nik Viveza, but that seems like a nice quick solution with less reliance on accuate selections!

Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate it.

[Manfred M]

Richard - you have maintained the weave of the basket which I rather like, and yes, I would probably adjust the brightness a little more than you have.

I don't have Nik Viveza, but that seems like a nice quick solution with less reliance on accuate selections!

Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate it.

My edit didn’t take 10 seconds. It was probably closer to 30 seconds. Using the Quick Selection tool is fast and accurate.

[rpcrowe]

Just goes to show you that there are many ways to skin a cat... err: post process an image in Photoshop/Adobe Camera Raw/Lightroom...