deviations from sunny 16 in digital photography

[shutternutter]

Hello everyone!
I feel like all online guides on the sunny 16 rule are written from a film perspective, assuming a set ISO. But what if I want some bokeh or motion blur in the shot, how do I adjust the ISO for the changed aperture and/or shutter speed?
Does anyone know a table that shows variable ISO speeds (for a set aperture and/or shutter speed) so I don't have to go through lengthy calculations?

[Manfred M]

I'm not sure why you would say that. In theory ISO 100 will give you the same sensitivity to light in film and in the digital world.

Most people just rely on what their camera's light meter tells them, so no need for the sunny 16 rule and the calculations involved. More advanced photographers pay attention to the histogram from their cameras to tweak the exposure.

[pschlute]

But what if I want some bokeh or motion blur in the shot, how do I adjust the ISO for the changed aperture and/or shutter speed?

Just follow the exposure rules for the exposure triangle that have remained unchanged many many years:

To keep overall exposure the same .........

any 1 stop change in aperture must equal 1 stop change in ISO ...eg f16 to f 11 = use half the ISO value

any 1 stop change in shutter speed must equal 1 stop change in ISO.... eg. 1/100 to 1/200 = use double the ISO value

[xpatUSA]

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Most people just rely on what their camera's light meter tells them, so no need for the sunny 16 rule and the calculations involved.

Except that the 'Sunny 16' rule is based on incident light at about 14.6 EV, is it not?

Whereas most camera's light-meters work on reflected light - good enough for "most people" I suppose. Sometimes my camera's light-meter lies to me (black cats and all that ...)

More advanced photographers pay attention to the histogram from their cameras to tweak the exposure.

[Manfred M]

Except that the 'Sunny 16' rule is based on incident light at about 14.6 EV, is it not?

Whereas most camera's light-meters work on reflected light - good enough for "most people" I suppose. Sometimes my camera's light-meter lies to me (black cats and all that ...)

I believe hat is correct. But most outdoor photographers should strive to shoot outside of the conditions that the sunny 16 rule works, magic hour and blue hour.

The conditions where Sunny 16 works tend to be those conditions where harsh shadows predominate the scene. Not optimal shooting conditions at all. Put the subject into covered shade and the Sunny 16 rule does not apply, etc. There are a few manual shooters out there that worry about these things and then tend to forget about the important parts of image making, like composition.

I shoot to the histogram to get as much tonal range into my image as possible to give me the working material I need in PP.

[george013]

Hello everyone!
I feel like all online guides on the sunny 16 rule are written from a film perspective, assuming a set ISO. But what if I want some bokeh or motion blur in the shot, how do I adjust the ISO for the changed aperture and/or shutter speed?
Does anyone know a table that shows variable ISO speeds (for a set aperture and/or shutter speed) so I don't have to go through lengthy calculations?

Bokeh is a matter of dof or more exactly "out of dof". Motion blur a matter of shutter speed. What do you want to calculate? And what are your "lengthy calculations"

George

[xpatUSA]

<>
Does anyone know a table that shows variable ISO speeds (for a set aperture and/or shutter speed) so I don't have to go through lengthy calculations?

There's something not quite right about this question. I could maybe understand a table "for a set aperture and shutter speed" which is somehow convertible back to an ISO setting, say via EV - but I can not understand a table "for a set aperture or [for a set] shutter speed".

Maybe there's something here:

http://detroitlovedr.com/f-stop-char...ter-speed.html

Or here:

https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photograph...l/EV_Chart.pdf

Or maybe one of these - which converts everything to anything, no calculations required:



As a Sigma camera owner, I'm not a great fan of using any ISO other than 100 which is 'base' on mine.

I feel an anti-ISO diatribe coming on, so I better quit now ...

[Stagecoach]

Hello everyone!

Does anyone know a table that shows variable ISO speeds (for a set aperture and/or shutter speed) so I don't have to go through lengthy calculations?

I don't know of any table that is going to cover all the numerous possibilities but this comparison calculator will allow you to make your own simply without having to worry about the maths.

https://www.scantips.com/lights/exposurecalc.html

But practically, your camera is likely to give you just as good an indication as any chart/calculator as you are most likely going to have to make variations based on scene/subject lighting.

[george013]

There's something not quite right about this question. I could maybe understand a table "for a set aperture and shutter speed" which is somehow convertible back to an ISO setting, say via EV - but I can not understand a table "for a set aperture or [for a set] shutter speed".

Maybe there's something here:

http://detroitlovedr.com/f-stop-char...ter-speed.html

Or here:

https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photograph...l/EV_Chart.pdf

Or maybe one of these - which converts everything to anything, no calculations required:



As a Sigma camera owner, I'm not a great fan of using any ISO other than 100 which is 'base' on mine.

I feel an anti-ISO diatribe coming on, so I better quit now ...

Wonderful to see how simple and effective these old tools were and still are.

George

[shutternutter]

Hey! Thanks for your input everyone!
I should mention that I do street photography, so I don't have any influence over the position of my subject and such. Also, I'm asking because I want the specific aesthetics of the sunny 16. Of course I could just set my camera to full auto and I do sometimes, just not for every shot.
Of course ISO is the same for film and digital, what I meant is that the tables I found giving values all assume a fixed ISO as you would have with film, as opposed to being able to adjust the ISO from shot to shot.
A clear example of the kind of table I found:
http://www.guidetofilmphotography.co...-exposure.html

https://www.scantips.com/lights/exposurecalc.html

Not a table, but it does give me exactly what I needed. Thank you!

[george013]

Hey! Thanks for your input everyone!
I should mention that I do street photography, so I don't have any influence over the position of my subject and such. Also, I'm asking because I want the specific aesthetics of the sunny 16. Of course I could just set my camera to full auto and I do sometimes, just not for every shot.
Of course ISO is the same for film and digital, what I meant is that the tables I found giving values all assume a fixed ISO as you would have with film, as opposed to being able to adjust the ISO from shot to shot.
A clear example of the kind of table I found:
http://www.guidetofilmphotography.co...-exposure.html




Not a table, but it does give me exactly what I needed. Thank you!

Not sure if I understand you. From the above I think you've a digital camera. Just like the link of Graham or the lightmeter of Ted it works with 3 variables. Just set one and play with the others. So choose your aperture by setting it in the A-mode and play with the iso setting to get a desired shutter speed. Or start in the S-mode and get a desired diaphragm. That's how I would do it with my Nikon dslr. But that only works when aiming the camera at the subject, realtime.
So I think you want to shoot M and start with the rule of thumbs sunny 16 and from there select a diaphragm and/or shutter speed.

George

[shutternutter]

So I think you want to shoot M and start with the rule of thumbs sunny 16 and from there select a diaphragm and/or shutter speed.

Exactly, I have a Canon 77D (not ideal for street, so hopefully not much longer) which I use in M with f16, 1/500 and ISO400 to get the sunny 16 at a reasonably short shutter speed to avoid motion blur in moving subjects at close range with a wide angle lens.
The question is how do I move away from that almost classic setting when for example I want a bit of bokeh in the shot. But I think I will manage with the calculator Grahame suggested. On my way out to try now, will let you know about the results later!

[george013]

Exactly, I have a Canon 77D (not ideal for street, so hopefully not much longer) which I use in M with f16, 1/500 and ISO400 to get the sunny 16 at a reasonably short shutter speed to avoid motion blur in moving subjects at close range with a wide angle lens.
The question is how do I move away from that almost classic setting when for example I want a bit of bokeh in the shot. But I think I will manage with the calculator Grahame suggested. On my way out to try now, will let you know about the results later!

I just take a photo with some settings and if the exposure is right i use those values in m.

George

[pschlute]

Exactly, I have a Canon 77D (not ideal for street, so hopefully not much longer) which I use in M with f16, 1/500 and ISO400 to get the sunny 16 at a reasonably short shutter speed to avoid motion blur in moving subjects at close range with a wide angle lens.
The question is how do I move away from that almost classic setting when for example I want a bit of bokeh in the shot.

So lets say you want to use f2.8 to create your bokeh. That is 5 stops brighter than f16. If you have your camera wheel set to half stop increments you can count 10 clicks of the wheel as you wind it down. Then adjust your shutter speed to make it faster....your camera goes to 1/4000 (I believe) , so that is 3 stops or six clicks of the wheel. You still need to find 2 more stops of adjustment to get the same equivalent exposure so you need to adjust the ISO. 2 stops less exposure from ISO400 will be ISO100 and you are set to go.

I find counting clicks when adjusting aperture and shutter speed to be very intuitive. You may also find that your camera has an option in Manual whereby you can temporarily "lock" the shutter/aperture values together, so winding the shutter speed from 1/500 to 1/4000 will automatically change the aperture to f5.6.

[Manfred M]

Also, I'm asking because I want the specific aesthetics of the sunny 16.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand that statement. The Sunny 16 rule is all about getting the correct exposure and nothing more.

Aesthetics are more related to the focal length you use, the aperture, shutter speed and point of view.

In street photography, the Sunny 16 rule can go right out the window as photographing along the sunny side of the street will require a different exposure from when shooting a subject that is in shadow.

Second question - why are you looking to replace your 77D? What about it is not working for you, given that it is a current generation camera.

[xpatUSA]

I feel an anti-ISO diatribe coming on, so I better quit now ...

Maybe this will help Max:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/89...at-s-a-problem

Although DPR is not particularly popular here, it's at least worth a quick read ...

[Cantab]

Maybe this will help Max:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/89...at-s-a-problem

Although DPR is not particularly popular here, it's at least worth a quick read ...

At the risk of sending this thread off topic, I found the DPR article of interest.

[Manfred M]

Maybe this will help Max:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/89...at-s-a-problem

Although DPR is not particularly popular here, it's at least worth a quick read ...

Interesting read but it would have been even better had he given some backup to what was written.

That being said, using jpeg data to generate the histogram has never been ideal. On the other hand, ensuring good mid-tone data is important as that is where human vision is most sensitive. So long as I don't crush the shadows or (usually) clip the highlights, I am most concerned about what the mid-tones are doing. I do want to see tonality in those areas between pure black and in to the quarter tone area and from the three-quarter tone to pure white.

The issue with DP review (and all the other review sites) is that they concentrate on the easy part of photography; the physics. They totally ignore two other critical aspects; physiology (i.e. how the human visual system processes the data that comes out of the camera) and psychology (stuff like composition, etc.) All three aspects of photography have to be considered when trying to create a good image.

[xpatUSA]

Interesting read but it would have been even better had he given some backup to what was written.

"I feel an anti-ISO diatribe coming on, so I better quit now ..."

Looks like I should have ...

[odds]

There's something not quite right about this question...

The Subject/Title indicates that the OP wants to deviate from the Sunny 16 exposure. Asking for a conversion table is about how to stick to that exposure.

--
Odd S.