Modeling Lights

[CatherineA]

I have the Godox speed lights TT685 and a few modifiers for home use. What I would have liked, had I been able to find them at a more affordable price, is modeling lights. I would have liked the precision that continuous lights give. Could people please tell me whether they use modeling lights in their home? And, do some people find speed lights just as satisfactory as modeling lights?

Thank you

[Shadowman]

I haven't used dedicated modeling lights in the home but have simulated with various bulbs for macro and light painting. I typically use for setting focus on my camera when doing lowkey shooting but will also use for creating highlights on my subject. I've used this setup with up to 3 speedlights but usually only need 2 at a time, I prefer the speedlights because I can control shadows more easily, although I can do the same somewhat with the modeling light if I have enough room to relocate the light position. I assume you might be talking about using with a live model for fashion shooting which I've used in a studio.

[rpcrowe]

Despite the propaganda from the Strobist site that espouses the use of hotshoe flashes, jury-rigged with all types of accessories, for every type of use, I really like studio type strobes that have modeling lights incorporated whenever I am shooting in a studio or wherever I have access to a/c current. There are, of course, some battery operated strobes which have modeling lights but, I don't own any of these.

A strobe with a decent modeling light will give you WTSIWYG (what you see is what you get) type of lighting while using a flash without a modeling light is usually a guestimation... However, the modeling lights are most effective indoors in a studio type environment because most modeling lights are not powerful enough to really be effective out in the sun.

Studio flashes with modeling lights don't need to be terribly expensive, As an example, I have a pair of White Lightning WL-500 (called "coffee can" strobes for the obvious reason) that I purchased for fifty U.S. Dollars each over 25-years ago. I have more sophisticated strobes but, I still like the light I get from these old units, modified with either a shoot through or bounce umbrella..





Pro rated cost for these units has been about two-dollars each per year of use which is a pretty darn good cost to value ratio. They are still supported by Paul C. Buff. I broke a flash tube a few yeas ago and was able to get one from that company. These old units are certainly not the only modeling light equipped strobes available used at prices less than most hot shoe flashes but, they are still available. And... are still running about the same price as I paid for my two units about 25-years ago...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paul-C-Buff...UAAOSwVzpdnl-F

There is certainly a place for using non-modeling light equipped flash units, especially outdoors when you might need high speed sync (HSS) because of needing fast shutter speeds. One of my favorite units for off-camera flash outdoors is a Godox TTL360 modified with a folding softbox or large umbrella. I like this unit because of the extra power it has and its HSS capability and the fact that it is easily controlled with my Godox triggers.

I have a great lighting cart modified from a rolling golf cart that is super for outdoor portraiture, especially since I shoot alone without an assistant to work my lights. Here is an approximate version of my cart. I have not photographed the cart that I actually use. This is the image that I used to plan my own unit.



A really great thing about a cart like this is that it can go just about anywhere and I can trust it to support my light and modifier in breezy conditions. I can also use it to carry other gear. I often shoot with a pair of bodies and I have an Arca Compatible clamp on the cart which carries my second body conveniently and safely. I sometimes carry a second light and a lightweight stand folded and attached to the cart for when I decide that a second light might be useful.

Not counting the cost of the strobe, I have about a hundred U.S. Dollars invested in my cart. It folds and I carry it in the back of my Subaru Forester...

For run around shooting, I often use an off camera hotshoe, non-modeling light equipped flash on a bracket. It is light weight and handy and provides decent lighting, especially when modified with a small softbox or a FlitIt diffuser/reflector...

[Manfred M]

Catherine - I assume you mean continuous light rather than modeling lights. Modeling lights are generally built into studio lights to help the photographer set up the lights properly. I have used modeling lights as a continuous light source in my work on occasion.

You might want to chat with Robert Laramée at the club. He is a highly regarded still life photographer and often teaches still life photography. He uses natural light, continuous light and flash in his own work and is always willing to help. If you don't know him, I'll introduce you to him.

I don't use anything other than flash in my still life work (both studio lights and speedlight) so can't be of much use. The main thing to watch out for is getting light sources that give you a good white balance and if you are planning to use them with your existing modifiers, get something that is not too hot (no tungsten or halogen lights) as they could melt your modifiers.

[rpcrowe]

Sorry, I did not interpret the question as well as did Manfred.

I use one continuous light source in combination with a hotshoe flash when photographing my rescue dogs. I don't use the Ott Light that is in the image for photography anymore (had problems with light balance when using it). Now it is just a reading light when I sit in the chair.



This is a very inexpensive four CFL Daylight bulb softbox on a stand... The light is very soft and I have no problems balancing it with my hotshoe flash...



LED continuous lights are also available. The advantages of the CFL and LED lights over standard incandescent photo flood bulbs is that they generate far less heat.

The disadvantage when shooting portraits with continuous lighting vs. flash is that you need a shutter speed fast enough to compensate for any camera shake and/or subject movement. (that problem is lessened if using a stabilized camera/lens and when using a Sony camera with continuous Eye-AF). The necessity for a rather fast shutter speed means pumping in far more light than is generated by the modeling lights of studio strobes. This can be fairly uncomfortable for subjects and has another drawback, the pupils of the subject can often be constricted to pinpoint size when using bright continuous light sources...

Here are a pair of very inexpensive single fluorescent softbox kits... I think that they might be O.K. for head and shoulder portraits but, I doubt if they could effectively illuminate a full length subject...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-135W-Lig...0AAOSwpdJds0qd
However, the price is so cheap that they might be considered as a starter kit and should be just fine for still life photography

I suspect that single CFL bulbs would not generate enough light to be used effectively in bouncing into an umbrella such as with this unit...

https://www.ebay.com/c/25018298247?iid=143056332429

[CatherineA]

Thank you for your reply John. I thought that shadows could be controlled with the right modifiers on a modeling light but now I suspect that I was muddling how a modeling light works.

[CatherineA]

thank you very much Richard. It is so helpful to see your beautiful photos and the lighting that you used to get them. I had been looking at the work of photographers who were using the Profoto D1 500 Air - since replaced by newer models - and they sure were expensive. I should have considered what else Godox has - thank you for all of the economical suggestions.

Yes, the heat generated by the continuous light is a drawback and the pupil constriction is a loss for sure. otherwise, continuous light would be a sure bet for how I would want to go.

[CatherineA]

thanks, Manfred, for untangling my muddling of continuous light in general and the continuous light that is a modeling light.

It would be great to meet Robert Laramée, thanks for the suggestion.

[Shadowman]

Thank you for your reply John. I thought that shadows could be controlled with the right modifiers on a modeling light but now I suspect that I was muddling how a modeling light works.

Hi Catherine,

You can use a diffuser and reduce the intensity of the light, its no different than how you'd modify light streaming through a window.

[rpcrowe]

Catherine... The one advantage that a continuous light has over a flash or strobe is that you have WYSIWYG shooting in that you can see the effects of the light as you are setting them up for the shot... However, IMO, that advantage is negated when you have a modeling light incorporated in your strobe. With the modeling light, you also have WYSIWYG shooting...

I have used both types of lights in studio situations since when I began photography studio strobes were a rarity (if they were in available at all). I don't remember any studio that I worked having studio strobes until the mid 1960's. I would choose the studio strobe for people shooting and I also use strobes for product and still life shots such as this wreath my wife has just made.



I shot this using a large translucent light tent with a White Lightning WL-500 strobe coming in from each side...

[CatherineA]

Thanks again, Richard! It’s always helpful to know the evolution of the equipment - it can even help to understand how to approach using it.

When you use your strobes for shooting people indoors, do you find that you use a modeling light more often than not?

[Manfred M]

Catherine - like Richard, I have a clear preference to specific lighting. I very much prefer flash because I never have to worry about either subject or camera movement. I have shot with continuous lights in the past, but only on stationary subjects and had my camera on a tripod. Continuous lights require too long a shutter speed and as I have enough flash gear, I don't have to worry about it. Even at home, I can work with up to 7 flash units (4 studio lights, a battery operated bare-bulb flash and two speed lights).

1. In the studio, I use studio lights equipped with modeling lights 100% of the time. As Richard explains so well, this gives me a WYSIWYG view when I do my setups. I do this when shooting with people as well as when doing still-life work. The key advantages to me of this approach is very precise light control as well as very controllable lighting ratios when I shoot with multiple lights (which is most of the time). When I look at my recent studio shoots, I have generally used four lights; a key, a fill and either two background lights (when I shoot on white seamless) or two rim lights (when I shot against black seamless).

I have four full studio lights at home and six lights at the RA Photo Club studio (although I have never used more than four lights there).

2. When I do location shoots, using battery powered studio lights, I tend to not use modeling lights because they drain the battery too fast. I try to stick with a single studio light only as much as possible and my first choice is my Godox Witsro AD360, which is sort of half way between a full studio light but does not have a modeling light built in. I use a reflector as my fill light if I need to. I have shot two lights on location on a few occasions.

I use a flash meter and do test shots to compensate for the lack of a modeling light when setting up the light(s) and ensuring that they are aimed properly.


3. On smaller location or event shoots I will use a single speedlight and will generally use it to bounce off walls or ceilings, especially if I need to be fairly portable. I have used two off-camera speedlights in the past using either a reflective or shoot-through umbrella. The problem is that umbrellas a fine for indoor work, but they are too sensitive to wind for most outdoor work.

When I am moving about, this is one situation where I use TTL metering with my camera and judge the shots using the camera's view screen and histogram.

[CatherineA]

Thank you very much Manfred. In fact a big thank you to all of you for how generous you all are with your time and explanations. I know that I am slow with this...

[rpcrowe]

Thanks again, Richard! It’s always helpful to know the evolution of the equipment - it can even help to understand how to approach using it.

When you use your strobes for shooting people indoors, do you find that you use a modeling light more often than not?

Catherine,

I suspect that you are not totally familiar with the concept of a modeling light when using a studio type strobe which is so equipped.

There are two light sources from a studio strobe.

One is the modeling light which is a continuous source light that is not normally used in the exposure. The modeling light is just used to approximately (some units have more accurate modeling lights than others) show what the actual flash exposure will look like when the exposure is made. On most studio strobes that I have used, the modeling light turns off a split second prior to the flash and then turns on again after the exposure is made. This light serves two purposes for me:

1. it shows me pretty well what the exposing light from the flash tube will look like and it allows me to work in a very dim area so that ambient light will have little or no impact on the exposure. That way, I know that the only light I need to be concerned with is the light that I am using. The modeling lights vary in sophistication and can range from a LED source to simply an incandescent bulb. My White Lightning units use simple 60 watt house bulbs. These, of course are not balanced for photography but, since they shut off prior to the exposure, the white balance doesn't matter at all. The brightness of most modeling lights is controlled by the power that you have selected for the flash. Since the WL-500 units have only 3-power settings (full. 2/3 and 1/3) this is no problem. The modeling lights have three power settings which are controlled by the power settings of the studio strobe. I have come across (but, have never used) some very cheap Chinese manufactured studio type strobes that do not have any power settings for the modeling light. While this is not particularly accurate and is very inconvenient, I suspect that it might be better than no modeling light at all.

2. The second source of light in a studio strobe is the light from the actual flash tube. This is a very quick and usually fairly powerful flash and is the light that makes the actual exposure. It is controlled by either the power setting on the studio flash itself or remotely from the camera or a trigger on the camera. Lights that are only controlled from the strobe itself are less convenient than lights which can be controlled from the camera, since the photographer needs to walk back and forth to and from the light itself to adjust the power of that light...

Here is a link to the user guide for my WL-500 units.
https://www.paulcbuff.com/manuals/re...ts/wl5k10k.pdf
Generally all studio strobes work approximately the same. Some are simple like the original WL-500 units and some are more complex and sophisticated but, the general principle of the modeling light is the same for all of them.

Since the modeling light is an integral part of the studio strobe and since the modeling light shows me what my exposure might look like; plus allows me light to work in an otherwise very dim or dark setting, I will always have the modeling light turned on when shooting with studio strobes. There is absolutely no reason not to have the modeling light turned on and many reasons to have it turned on. Sometimes. if a modeling light is color balanced a photographer "might" use this as the only light source especially, when shooting small still life setups. However, I have never done so...

A big difference between some very cheap studio type strobes and more sophisticated units is the accuracy of the modeling light. It is very important that the light from the modeling bulb accurately show what the final result from the flash exposure will look like... However, as I mentioned earlier... I suspect that any modeling light is a little bit better than no light at all...

Like I said, my WL-500 lights are not very sophisticated. The modeling light will shut off for the actual exposure and will not turn on again until the flash is recycled. However, rather than a problem, I like the way this works since I know that whenever the modeling light is on the flash is fully powered and ready to shoot. There is only a split second of darkness.

BTW: there are other advantages to using a studio type strobe rather than a hotshoe type flash. The studio strobe is designed to fit on a light stand without needing any accessory and the studio strobe will accept modifiers such as umbrellas, softboxes and other such things. The unit is usually more powerful than the hotshoe type strobe and, since it is powered by a/c, the recycle time is constant and is not dependent on the power of a few small AA batteries...

IMO, there is a place for each type unit... I use studio strobes when shooting indoors in a fixed location such as a studio. I will use larger non-studio strobes such as the Godox/Flashpoint (same units just branded differently) TTL 360 outdoors when I don't need a modeling light but do need power and I use hotshoe flashes (either on camera or on a bracket) when I need the utmost in mobility...

One final thought, I almost NEVER use direct flash in any setup. I almost always modify my flash with softbox, umbrellas of other modifiers or, when using a hotshoe flash, I will just about always either bounce it or attach a small modifier or both...

[CatherineA]

Catherine,

I suspect that you are not totally familiar with the concept of a modeling light when using a studio type strobe which is so equipped.

Yes, Richard, you are right about that! I see now how I was misconstruing what instructors were saying on the videos that I watched. Thank you once again for your helpful explanations. It was kind of you to give so much of your time.