rechargeable AA batteries

[DanK]

Time has come to replace the batteries for my flash. They no longer cycle fast enough for macro work. I'd be interested in advice.

Last time I bought them--several years ago--the choice seemed pretty clear. Low-self-discharge batteries are convenient for some uses, but they generally had lower capacity and slower cycle times than high-discharge batteries. At that time Powerex had both low-self-discharge and high capacity (2700mA) lines to select from. Ansmann had and still has 2800 mA batteries. However, Powerex now advertises some batteries as BOTH low self-discharge and high capacity.

Any suggestions? I am completely unconcerned about low rates of self-discharge. I rotate between two sets and always have them freshly charged before I go out. The most important thing for me is the cycle time--how fast they come back to sufficient power to power a flash.

[steveg4iwr]

Personal choice would be Energiser. I have used them for about 5 years never any problems. I use them in flash guns, beard trimmer anything that needs AA or AAA. I use the 2700 generally. I have some 1300 that I use in the mouse or keyboard.


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[Manfred M]

Dan - I've used the Maha PowerEx batteries for about a decade and they continue to perform well, so I am pleasantly surprised that they are still working with all the abuse I put them through. I have about 20 of them in various devices and have only had to retire two batteries. There are a lot of people who also like the Panasonic Eneloop. They have a slightly lower capacity, but a longer discharge life.

The trade off is that the slow discharge design reduces charging speed and maximum storage capacity.

I don't know about your flash units, but my SB-900 does take an external battery pack and when I use it with 8 batteries, it cuts the cycle time between shots in half. I understand that some Canon flashes have that capability as well. I picked my unit up (no name) on eBay and I've had it for over 5 years and have never had any issues with it, using my PowerEx batteries.

[xpatUSA]

The most important thing for me is the cycle time--how fast they come back to sufficient power to power a flash.

Firstly, battery capacity has units of mA-h, not mA. Be that as it may, battery capacity does not necessarily determine "cycle time" as you describe it above. Some batteries are designed to provide a low current for a long time, others to provide a high current for a short time - all other things including capacity being equal. Also, the battery voltage tends just to fall with time, not somehow die and then "come back" as you put it.

I'd guess that you would be best served by batteries with a low internal resistance - a property never published, to my knowledge ... just as the "hour rate" is rarely found for AA batteries of any kind. Think car batteries "60 Ampere-hours at the 40-hr rate" ...

I have lots of AA ENELOOP batteries the best of which are Panasonic ENELOOP Pro 2,500mAh BK-3HCDE.

[DanK]

Oops. Sorry, I left off the 'hours'. But yes, low internal resistance is exactly what I'm after. My vague recollection is that low-self-discharge batteries (like Eneloops) tend to have high internal resistance.

For most purposes, any of them are fine. When doing macros of bugs, however, having a short cycle time is essential. It's true that an external battery pack would be a solution, but my macro rig is already so heavy and cumbersome--I'm chasing bees and wasps, after all--that I don't want to add yet additional equipment.

[xpatUSA]

Oops. Sorry, I left off the 'hours'. But yes, low internal resistance is exactly what I'm after. My vague recollection is that low-self-discharge batteries (like Eneloops) tend to have high internal resistance.

For most purposes, any of them are fine. When doing macros of bugs, however, having a short cycle time is essential. It's true that an external battery pack would be a solution, but my macro rig is already so heavy and cumbersome--I'm chasing bees and wasps, after all--that I don't want to add yet additional equipment.

A shot in the dark:

There are lithium "double AA" batteries RCRV3 with low internal resistance but the end arrangement may not suit your flash units AND some have relatively high post-charge terminal voltages compared to alkaline non-rechargeable. For example my Metz 20 C-2 leaflet says do NOT use lithium-ion types.

For what it's worth ... your call:

https://www.batteryequivalents.com/c...lacements.html
.

[Manfred M]

It's true that an external battery pack would be a solution, but my macro rig is already so heavy and cumbersome--I'm chasing bees and wasps, after all--that I don't want to add yet additional equipment.

Mine has a long, flexible cable that connects to the flash and I carry the battery pack on my belt or in my pocket. I agree it does add a bit of bulk, but it does help the cycle time. I find it really does not get in the way.

[Manfred M]

A shot in the dark:

There are lithium "double AA" batteries RCRV3 with low internal resistance but the end arrangement may not suit your flash units AND some have relatively high post-charge terminal voltages compared to alkaline non-rechargeable. For example my Metz 20 C-2 leaflet says do NOT use lithium-ion types.

For what it's worth ... your call:

https://www.batteryequivalents.com/c...lacements.html
.

That is interesting. That style of battery would not be compatible with my Speedlights as the slots are made for individual AA cells only and a double wide cell would not fit. In terms of suitability, both my Godox Witstro AD-360 and my Paul C Buff Vagabond Mini battery use rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries, so that type of battery can can definitely be used to drive flash units.

I suspect that these batteries need a custom charger as I understand these batteries need to be monitored during the charge cycle to ensure no runaway overheating occurs.

[xpatUSA]

Originally Posted by xpatUSA A shot in the dark:

... AND some have relatively high post-charge terminal voltages compared to alkaline non-rechargeable. For example my Metz 20 C-2 leaflet says do NOT use lithium-ion types.

That is interesting. <> In terms of suitability, both my Godox Witstro AD-360 and my Paul C Buff Vagabond Mini battery use rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries, so that type of battery can can definitely be used to drive flash units.

Hopefully Members will not think that the above underlined statement applies to all flash units!

For example:



Dan, please note the comment about "very fast recycling" re: NiCads! Seems that you can still buy 'em:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/24pcs-1-2-V...t/133479762144

2800mAh - just what the Doctor ordered and cheap too ...

[DanK]

I checked—the documentation for my old Canon 430 EX II says alkaline, NiMH, and lithium are OK. No mention of NiCd, but no explanation


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[xpatUSA]

I checked—the documentation for my old Canon 430 EX II says alkaline, NiMH, and lithium are OK.

In which case, these might be of interest:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-EBL-USB...e/114139953319

"Ideal for digital cameras, remote controls, toys, and more for high current applications
1.5V Lithium USB AA battery 3300mWh
These cells can provide approximately the same and steady voltage until the whole cell is depleted"

The "steady voltage" is interesting for your purpose, although "the same" implies zero internal resistance and "approximately the same" makes no sense at all ...

Caveat: 3300mWh means 3000mAh for these batteries ...

[DanK]

Thanks, but I think I will stick with brands I know. Check this: https://www.amazon.com/EBL-Batteries...ews/B00JB0GNYM

I think I will buy some Ansmann NiMH. Some years ago, these were recommended to me by a macro photographer who wanted cycling times fast enough to get a stack. I don't know if they are still as good, but it's worth a few dollars to test a set.

[Manfred M]

If I recall correctly NiCd batteries had a nasty "memory" issue and if one did not discharge them deeply before recharging they tended to deteriorate more quickly and did not recharge to as high an output level again. The other issue with them is that Cadmium is a toxic heavy metal and not a nice compound to release into the environment after the battery reached the end of its useful service life.

Not a lot of tears shed when this battery technology was replaced.

[xpatUSA]

Thanks, but I think I will stick with brands I know. Check this: https://www.amazon.com/EBL-Batteries...ews/B00JB0GNYM

They were the first up on an ebay search. Posting a bad review of a manufacture tells us nothing about lithium AA cells in general.

I have had eight EBL D-size Ni-Mh cells in-regular use for years with no problems which also tells us very little about EBL as a manufacturer statistically speaking.

I think I will buy some Ansmann NiMH. Some years ago, these were recommended to me by a macro photographer who wanted cycling times fast enough to get a stack. I don't know if they are still as good, but it's worth a few dollars to test a set.

Indeed.

[DanK]

Posting a bad review of a manufacture tells us nothing about lithium AA cells in general.

My comment was about the brand, not the technology. It's true that online reviews are a crap shoot, but it's not all that common for the distribution of Amazon reviews to be that negative.

[xpatUSA]

My comment was about the brand, not the technology. It's true that online reviews are a crap shoot, but it's not all that common for the distribution of Amazon reviews to be that negative.

Understood.

Oh well, having suggested that Lithium or Ni-Cd might be better for your purpose, I see that you are going with Ni-Mh.

Good luck!

[DanK]

I might go with lithium, but I don't think the paired cells would fit in my flash, which has a large hump between each two cells. I'll look into single lithium batteries

[xpatUSA]

I might go with lithium, but I don't think the paired cells would fit in my flash, which has a large hump between each two cells.

Yes, I failed to mention AA lithiums because long ago I used CRV3s for a while in the Sigma SD10 camera which could take either 2 CRV3s or 4 AAs due to the design of the removable battery carrier, and I had forgotten that there were AA size lithiums (if I ever knew). The CRV3s were certainly favored by the Sigma cognoscenti for what that's worth.

I'll look into single lithium batteries.

I would be interested in the outcome. I might try some Ni-Cd in the Metz because it takes a hundred years to charge up when first turned on (handbook mentions re-forming the capacitor) and is none too swift recharging between shots ...

[Tronhard]

I hope this link will work, but I can access the Lynda.com educational website free via my library - many of them provide this service. There is an interesting post by one of my favourite presenters on the subject of rechargeable batteries:
https://www.lynda.com/course-tutoria...?autoplay=true

If you cannot find lynda.com as an item in your local library on-line catalogue, and you want to access this and other videos, you can sign up for a free month of no-obligation access. It's a great site for all sorts of interesting educational stuff.

[Manfred M]

I hope this link will work, but I can access the Lynda.com educational website free via my library - many of them provide this service. There is an interesting post by one of my favourite presenters on the subject of rechargeable batteries:
https://www.lynda.com/course-tutoria...?autoplay=true

If you cannot find lynda.com as an item in your local library on-line catalogue, and you want to access this and other videos, you can sign up for a free month of no-obligation access. It's a great site for all sorts of interesting educational stuff.

Trev - nothing new here. The same argument I heard about 10 years ago;

PowerEx batteries have a higher power density, but do self-discharge more quickly, but also have a much shorter charge cycle. I find they can sit on the shelf for several months and still function, albeit a shorter life versus being freshly recharged.

Eneloop have a long shelf life, but lower power density. Their ability to hold their charge for a long period also means a longer charge time.

For my needs, PowerEx are preferable. I plan my shoots and rarely go out randomly on a shoot where I require a flash, so I always have a few hours to top them up before I shoot. The faster recycle time and higher power density are more important to me than long shelf life. Other people don't plan ahead so find that the longer shelf life is more important to them.