NIK Collection 4 - UPGRADE ?

[Manfred M]

I just searched (very briefly) for a history of Nik collection upgrades. I wasn't able to find one. My impression is that the software is trying to serve two very different markets and that this is pulling them in two very different directions. To oversimplify, market #1 is people who want presets or effects, and market #2 is people who want editing tools. I suspect many people on this forum are more in market #2 than in market #1. I certainly am; apart from some film emulation presents in Silver Efex, I don't think I've every used a Nik preset in a finished image. My impression is that many of the additional features in Nik updates have been presets, none of which I have used. There have been some editing updates also; I bought the last version for Perspective Efex, which I didn't have because I don't have other DxO software. But apart from that, my use of version 3 has been identical to my use of version 2. Version 4 offers more control over the definition of control points, which at least in principle sounds useful. However, I'll wait to see whether people find that it is useful after these and the other bugs have been worked out.

I generally only use a few of the tools, mostly Color Efex and Silver Efex and sometimes Dfine.

What I use Silver Efex for is very much a prototyping tool to look at different B&W approaches. I often don't use it at all in the final version as I find I get much better control when I hand-build a B&W image.

[Donald]

What I use Silver Efex for is very much a prototyping tool to look at different B&W approaches. I often don't use it at all in the final version as I find I get much better control when I hand-build a B&W image.

Ditto.

I used to use SEP all the time, but I moved from that after studying at a B & W Masterclass run by Aspect 2i's Paul Gallagher.

[stuck]

Certainly seems at first blush that they were not ready for prime time. In addition to the problems listed on these sites, they released the product before updating the UI for all of the apps, so different apps now function differently. I was inclined not to update because I use Nik less and less, but this seals the deal. I'm not spending money for an update that seems to be an incomplete beta version.

In case you need any reassurance that you made the right choice to pass on this 'upgrade' see this thread:
https://feedback.dxo.com/t/why-relea...e-at-all/19812

stuck

[Donald]

Update for Manfred - I at least got a response from DxO asking for confirmation of driver version details and versions of Windows and Photoshop. The say that this will now be passed on to the developers.

[Manfred M]

Update for Manfred - I at least got a response from DxO asking for confirmation of driver version details and versions of Windows and Photoshop. The say that this will now be passed on to the developers.

That seems to be their standard response. I got something along the same lines the last time I reported a bug.

You are still one step ahead of me as I have not heard back from them yet.

[Donald]

That seems to be their standard response. I got something along the same lines the last time I reported a bug.

You are still one step ahead of me as I have not heard back from them yet.

It gets better. I just received:-
"We are not officially compatible with the Wacom tablets.
Do you want a refund?"

My reply:- "Sir,

Nik software has worked perfectly fine with Wacom tablets ever since the day it was owned by Nik. I have used the two together for the past number of years with absolutely no problem. I find this explanation a lame excuse for a development problem in this new version.

Given that Wacom tablets are in widespread use amongst the photographic community, I find your reasoning completely staggering. You will be required to offer a huge number of refunds if that is the approach you are taking.

No, I do not want a refund. I want the new version of Nik to work as well with a Wacom tablet as it has done for many, many years.

Your e-mail has left me very angry, particularly at the attitude of DXO to the problems your developers have caused."

[DanK]

The quesion in my mind is no longer whether version 4 is worth the price. I wouldn't install it if the price were negative. The question is whether they will recover from this. In addition to releasing a version that would have been incomplete even if it had worked and that has so many bugs that their team can't keep up (see the link that Stuck posted), they are taking a bit reputational hit by releasing something like this. I certainly will not consider an upgrade in the future without waiting for a lot of favorable reports from users.

This is perhaps too easy for me to say, given that I fortunately didn't buy the upgrade, but I think if I had, I would uninstall it and reinstall version 3.

It's a bit like Windows 8, only much worse. The decision my university made with respect to Vista and Windows 8 was to wait. Once Windows 10 proved itself, we all upgraded, skipping two versions entirely.

[Manfred M]

It gets better. I just received:-
"We are not officially compatible with the Wacom tablets.
Do you want a refund?"

My reply:- "Sir,

Nik software has worked perfectly fine with Wacom tablets ever since the day it was owned by Nik. I have used the two together for the past number of years with absolutely no problem. I find this explanation a lame excuse for a development problem in this new version.

Given that Wacom tablets are in widespread use amongst the photographic community, I find your reasoning completely staggering. You will be required to offer a huge number of refunds if that is the approach you are taking.

No, I do not want a refund. I want the new version of Nik to work as well with a Wacom tablet as it has done for many, many years.

Your e-mail has left me very angry, particularly at the attitude of DXO to the problems your developers have caused."

I wonder what they mean by suggesting lack of compatibility with a Wacom tablet. Outside of pressure sensitivity / angle that the stylus is held at, the tablet operates very much like a mouse. When click and drag functions are ineffective, I have a problem.

I await DxO's reply, as like you I have been using a Wacom tablet for at least 15 years and have never run into something like this... This is my third tablet (I do upgrade my tablet from time to time and the last time I checked, it is still a currently sold model).

[rpcrowe]

I don't buy first versions of any technical product that has not been tried and tested by the public. Here are my reasons...

#1
In late 2000, I was told that I needed a knee joint replacement. My orthopedic doctor confided that there was a new joint coming out that was "better than sliced bread". He recommended that if I could stand the pain, I should wait for the new joint. I did AND almost a year later had the new joint installed. IT WAS DEFECTIVE and had to be recalled. It is a lot easier to have a set of tires recalled than to suffer through the pain from a defective joint and undergo a second surgery to replace the replacement joint
#2
When the Canon 6D Mark-2 was introduced, B&H had a sale which not only offered a good price but, included a package of quite good accessories including a new Pixma 9000 printer at no extra charge. Problem was, the sale was ending at midnight which was fifteen minutes from the time I read the ad. Since I knew the 6D Classic was a great camera and I expected the 6D2 to be even better, so I bought the 6D Mark-2 without researching it. It turned out that I did not like the camera for many reasons - especially because Canon swapped the AF system from the 90D into the 6D2 without enlarging the coverage area for full frame. That was pretty lame because the 6D2 only had AF points clustered at the center of the frame...

I THINK that I learned from those mistakes I should have anyway!

[Manfred M]

I don't buy first versions of any technical product that has not been tried and tested by the public. Here are my reasons...

#1
In late 2000, I was told that I needed a knee joint replacement. My orthopedic doctor confided that there was a new joint coming out that was "better than sliced bread". He recommended that if I could stand the pain, I should wait for the new joint. I did AND almost a year later had the new joint installed. IT WAS DEFECTIVE and had to be recalled. It is a lot easier to have a set of tires recalled than to suffer through the pain from a defective joint and undergo a second surgery to replace the replacement joint
#2
When the Canon 6D Mark-2 was introduced, B&H had a sale which not only offered a good price but, included a package of quite good accessories including a new Pixma 9000 printer at no extra charge. Problem was, the sale was ending at midnight which was fifteen minutes from the time I read the ad. Since I knew the 6D Classic was a great camera and I expected the 6D2 to be even better, so I bought the 6D Mark-2 without researching it. It turned out that I did not like the camera for many reasons - especially because Canon swapped the AF system from the 90D into the 6D2 without enlarging the coverage area for full frame. That was pretty lame because the 6D2 only had AF points clustered at the center of the frame...

I THINK that I learned from those mistakes I should have anyway!

I quite agree with you about new products, they always have "teething pains" and early adopter help debug these as the product matures.

Your analogy does not quite work here though. The Nik Collection is a mature product that has been around for a very long time. Software is generally a bit different than other products in that there are always going to be bugs and the marketing department's delivery schedule is often not linked with the development team's ability to deliver stable code.

Fortunately, patches virtually always roll out after release and fix the issues.

[Manfred M]

I've just received the following reply from DxO"

"

Seth (Support & Assistance)

Jun 13, 2021, 4:54 PM GMT+2
Hello Manfred,

We have been informed that there was an issue with installing Nik Collection 4 on some systems. The developers are aware of the problem and are currently testing out a new update to the program, which they plan to release sometime this week. When the update is released, please download and install it as soon as possible to see if it resolves the issues you are currently having.

Thank you for contacting DxO Customer Support.

Seth - DxO Labs Support Team 1"

I hope that their update fixes the issue's I've had as I'm fairly certain that the install did not work 100% and that this could be causing the issues that we have been having.

[Donald]

I've just received the following reply from DxO"

Jun 13, 2021, 4:54 PM GMT+2
Hello Manfred,



Seth - DxO Labs Support Team 1"

I once had Seth work on another problem I had with DxO itself a number of years ago. It's nice to see that he's still there and that he provides a much more constructive reply than the one I received from someone called Fabrice.

[Manfred M]

DxO released their update yesterday, but it did not fix the problem, so a new support request went in after I tested the new version.

[Donald]

I'll check tomorrow morning as to whether I have the update available and, if so, whether it works or not for me. I suspect not because yesterday I was sent a diagnostic test, asked to download and run it and send the resulting file back to DxO.

Waiting to here.

[Donald]

DxO released their update yesterday, but it did not fix the problem .....

Ditto

[Manfred M]

Received the following note from Seth today:



Seth (Support & Assistance)

Jun 18, 2021, 5:51 PM GMT+2
Hello Manfred,

Thank you for writing. The developers are continuing to work on resolving known issues with Nik Collection 4 and plan on releasing updates in the near future.

In the meantime, you can download Nik Collection 3 using this link

https://download-center.dxo.com/nikc...on_3_byDxO.exe

You will want to use the 'Uninstall' option in the Nik Collection 4 installer program first, and then use the 'Install' option in Nik Collection 3. We advise have a current backup of your system prior to doing this in case you need to recover any customer recipe files you created in Nik Collection.

If you have not already done so, may we recommend that you subscribe to our e-mail newsletter. It contains information about fixes and updates being added to our programs. You can subscribe to the newsletter at this location

https://www.dxo.com/subscribe/

Thank you for contacting DxO Customer Support and please have a good weekend.

Seth - DxO Labs Support Team 1


I'm in the process of uninstalling Nik 4 and reinstalling Nik3. Unfortunately, they have removed the functionality from the website where I could look up the activation code for older versions of Nik, so I am waiting for them to email me that information.

[Manfred M]

I heard back from DxO last week with the following. This appears to have fixed the problem I was having with the software.



Fabrice (Support & Assistance)

Jul 7, 2021, 9:17 AM GMT+2
Hello Manfred,

A hotfix was deployed yesterday. Could you, from your DxO customer account or from the check for update window when launching a Nik Collection application, download and install version 4.1 of Nik Collection to verify that the problem you have reported to us has been fixed? Your feedback is important.

Kind regards,

Fabrice - DxO Labs Support Team 2

[Donald]

Lucky you.

I reloaded 4.1 and the issue is still there. Oh well, just as well I don't use NIK for much nowadays, only for sharpening.

[billtils]

... This appears to have fixed the problem I was having with the software....

Manfred, before I go and update, by "appears" do you mean "DxO say they have fixed it" or do you mean "I tried it and all good now"? If the latter, why is it not fixed for Donald?

Every time I go to NIK I get the (increasingly) annoying "do you want to upgrade" message and I'd like to be sure before replying "Yes please".

[Donald]

If the latter, why is it not fixed for Donald?

We experienced a different problem, Bill, with the same release.