Colour Management Problem with Firefox

[Round Tuit]

I recently purchased a BenQ SW240 wide gamut monitor. One of only two 24 inch 1920 x 1200 monitors left on the market; the other one being an Eizo model with nearly identical specifications but selling in Canada at $1200 vs $500 for the BenQ.

Although advertised as 99% AdobeRGB compliant, my unit turned out to cover 100% of the AdobeRGB gamut when calibrated with a target luminosity of 100 cd/m2. The size of the calibrated monitor's gamut is just over 119% of the AdobeRGB gamut size.

My previous monitor was marginally bigger than the sRGB gamut and hence hid the fact that Firefox color management does not work properly. It ignores the profile of tagged images and applies their values directly to the monitor's profile. With a wide gamut monitor profile, sRGB images appear overly saturated.

I have tried all four of Firefox values for its color management settings with absolutely no effect. Has anyone else with a wide gamut monitor experienced this problem and if so how did you solve it?

[pschlute]

This may help https://cameratico.com/color-management/firefox/

First thing I would check is if you have a path specified in Firefox "about:config" for gfx.color_management.display_profile

If you have a path specified for a previous monitor profile that is no longer valid this may cause the issues you are experiencing.

I use a Eizo wide gamut screen and in Firefox (64 bit) this is my setup:

gfx.color_management.display_profile C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color\CS2730(296 88097)90cd 6500K 2.20.icc

gfx.color_management.enablev4 true

gfx.color_management.mode 1



Finally.....what version of Firefox are you running ?

[Round Tuit]

This may help https://cameratico.com/color-management/firefox/

First thing I would check is if you have a path specified in Firefox "about:config" for gfx.color_management.display_profile

If you have a path specified for a previous monitor profile that is no longer valid this may cause the issues you are experiencing.

I use a Eizo wide gamut screen and in Firefox (64 bit) this is my setup:

gfx.color_management.display_profile C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color\CS2730(296 88097)90cd 6500K 2.20.icc

gfx.color_management.enablev4 true

gfx.color_management.mode 1



Finally.....what version of Firefox are you running ?

I am using Firefox 98.0.2(64bit).
I did not have a path specified for the monitor profile since Firefox is supposed to use the profile specified by the system. I just tried pointing it to my monitor's profile and it still does not work.
my settings are also:
gfx.color_management.enablev4 true
gfx.color_management.mode 1
I have tried all modes as well as force_srgb to no effect.

Could you do an experiment for me. Create a new image in prophoto space with a pure red, a pure green and a pure blue squares. Duplicate it and convert the duplicate to sRGB space. Save both as tagged jpeg and open both in Firefox. The blue squares should look the same but the red and green ones should be visibly more saturated in the prophoto version.

[pschlute]

Could you do an experiment for me. Create a new image in prophoto space with a pure red, a pure green and a pure blue squares. Duplicate it and convert the duplicate to sRGB space. Save both as tagged jpeg and open both in Firefox. The blue squares should look the same but the red and green ones should be visibly more saturated in the prophoto version.

Just done that and as expected the ProPhoto profiled image is more vivid in the red and green.

Firefox and Photoshop both display the images correctly..... R&G colours are more vivid in the ProPhoto tagged image, more subdued in the sRGB tagged image.

ps. I am running the same version of Firefox as you on a win10 machine

[xpatUSA]

Originally Posted by Round Tuit Could you do an experiment for me. Create a new image in prophoto space with a pure red, a pure green and a pure blue squares. Duplicate it and convert the duplicate to sRGB space. Save both as tagged jpeg and open both in Firefox. The blue squares should look the same but the red and green ones should be visibly more saturated in the prophoto version.

Just done that and as expected the ProPhoto profiled image is more vivid in the red and green.

Firefox and Photoshop both display the images correctly..... R&G colours are more vivid in the ProPhoto tagged image, more subdued in the sRGB tagged image.

I am confused, sorry Peter.

Why are the colors expected to vary on a color-managed machine (CMM)when the whole purpose of a CMM is to apply the embedded profiles before sending to the display?

[pschlute]

I am confused, sorry Peter.

Why are the colors expected to vary on a color-managed machine (CMM)when the whole purpose of a CMM is to apply the embedded profiles before sending to the display?

Because the sRGB gamut is narrower than the ProPhoto one. When one does the action "convert to profile" in Photoshop, the colours available shrink when moving from ProPhoto to sRGB, and the usual outcome is the appearance of less saturated reds and greens.

[xpatUSA]

Because the sRGB gamut is narrower than the ProPhoto one. When one does the action "convert to profile" in Photoshop, the colours available shrink when moving from ProPhoto to sRGB, and the usual outcome is less saturated reds and greens.

Thanks, I'll give that some thought and try again with "pure" colors. Earlier I tried with a Macbeth card shot, all the colors of which are within sRGB except the cyan patch, and could see no difference in FireFox. I just deleted a post to that effect but it may still show in the latest list ...

[xpatUSA]

Thanks, I'll give that some thought and try again with "pure" colors.

That failed because I can't duplicate André's request. All I can do is make an image with "pure" colors which the drawing app (FastStone) saves as R,G,B =255 and with no embedded profile. Into the GIMP, I converted to PP then opened again and converted to sRGB. Not surprisingly, the PP data lowered in value but not on my screen because the profile brings them back to 255, ergo no visible change. Again, not surprisingly, in a unmanaged app e.g. Windows 'Paint' the PP image looks "dull". So, all working as it should and André's problem did not appear.

For what they are worth:

No profile:


sRGB profile:


ProPhoto:

[Round Tuit]

Just done that and as expected the ProPhoto profiled image is more vivid in the red and green.

Firefox and Photoshop both display the images correctly..... R&G colours are more vivid in the ProPhoto tagged image, more subdued in the sRGB tagged image.

ps. I am running the same version of Firefox as you on a win10 machine

Thank you Peter.
I did the same experiment with one Prophoto, one AdobeRGB and one sRGB. All three look different in Photoshop and in the develop module of Lightroom but they all show up as fully saturated in Firefox. I had the same problem with Irfanview with colour management enabled but managed to solve it by downloading and installing the Irfanview plug-ins. Mr. Google hasn't been useful except to show that I am apparently not the only one with this problem in Firefox and that the problem has been around for several years!

I am hoping that someone will have a solution.

[Round Tuit]

That failed because I can't duplicate André's request. All I can do is make an image with "pure" colors which the drawing app (FastStone) saves as R,G,B =255 and with no embedded profile. Into the GIMP, I converted to PP then opened again and converted to sRGB. Not surprisingly, the PP data lowered in value but not on my screen because the profile brings them back to 255, ergo no visible change. Again, not surprisingly, in a unmanaged app e.g. Windows 'Paint' the PP image looks "dull". So, all working as it should and André's problem did not appear.

For what they are worth:

No profile:


sRGB profile:


ProPhoto:

Thank you Ted. All three of you image show up as in Prophoto. Which is to say they display the maximum saturation that my monitor can render.

[DanK]

I think I did this right. Here's what I did. I'm using a wide-gamut NEC monitor.

I created a document with pure blue, green, and red squares in my working space, prophoto.
I exported it as a jpeg, embedding the profile
I converted it to sRGB and did the same thing.
I uploaded both JPEGs to Smugmug so that I could view them in Firefox.

The results: The two look quite different in photoshop, of course. However, in Firefox, they look the same. however, unlike Andre's experience, both look like the sRGB does in Photoshop.

My firefox settings are:

gfx.color_management.enablev4 true
gfx.color_management.mode 1

I then checked the two images in three other browsers, Edge, Vivaldi, and Chrome, and the results were the same as in Firefox.

I closed the images in Photoshop and reopened them from the stored JPEGs. The difference in saturation remained.

So this makes me think the issue isn't browser settings, but something in the way that the profiles are being embedded by the Photoshop export as function.

[pschlute]

Thanks Dan for that input.

There was a problem a few years ago when Firefox managed to cock up the latest update and colour settings were wrong for a couple of months or so.

Perhaps the problem is in the "export as" function. I do not know as I have never used it.

To Andre, I can only think it is a problem with the communication between your computer and Firefox. I suggest a complete reset of the latter, although I guess you have already been down that route.

[Round Tuit]

I think I did this right. Here's what I did. I'm using a wide-gamut NEC monitor.

I created a document with pure blue, green, and red squares in my working space, prophoto.
I exported it as a jpeg, embedding the profile
I converted it to sRGB and did the same thing.
I uploaded both JPEGs to Smugmug so that I could view them in Firefox.

The results: The two look quite different in photoshop, of course. However, in Firefox, they look the same. however, unlike Andre's experience, both look like the sRGB does in Photoshop.

My firefox settings are:

gfx.color_management.enablev4 true
gfx.color_management.mode 1

I then checked the two images in three other browsers, Edge, Vivaldi, and Chrome, and the results were the same as in Firefox.

I closed the images in Photoshop and reopened them from the stored JPEGs. The difference in saturation remained.

So this makes me think the issue isn't browser settings, but something in the way that the profiles are being embedded by the Photoshop export as function.

Thanks for doing this experiment.

I would think that if both your photos look like the Photoshop sRGB images when displayed in a coloured managed browser then either the "export" or the uploading converted the prophoto one to sRGB. Otherwise, they should look different just as in Photoshop. You could eliminate the two unknown by "saving" from Photoshop rather than "exporting" which I know preserves the profile and displaying directly in Firefox rather then uploading to a web site first. You can do this by right clicking on the icon and selecting "Open with.." in the context menu that appears and pick Firefox from the list of programs. If Firefox is not in the list, you can add it by last option in the list.

I can confirm that "save" preserves the profiles because the resulting images display properly in Irfanview; yet they don't in Firefox.

[Round Tuit]

...

To Andre, I can only think it is a problem with the communication between your computer and Firefox. I suggest a complete reset of the latter, although I guess you have already been down that route.

I have not taken that big step yet.

[DanK]

I’ll try these modifications tomorrow, but the evidence is that exporting did save the embedded profiles. When I re-imported those into Photoshop, both rendered correctly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pschlute]

I have not taken that big step yet.

You can do a Firefox refresh, which preserves all your favourites.... it will reset everything else to default.

[pschlute]

Here is a picture of what I see in firefox. The window on the left is the ProPhoto tagged image and the one on the right is sRGB

[pschlute]

So this makes me think the issue isn't browser settings, but something in the way that the profiles are being embedded by the Photoshop export as function.

I just tried the same original experiment, creating two images (ProPhoto and sRGB) but using the "export as" function in Photoshop instead of "save as".

I get exactly the same result. The two images are different with more apparent saturation in the ProPhoto red/green. It makes no difference whether I view them in Photoshop or Firefox or Edge browser. The tagged profiles are being preserved, and read correctly, and displayed correctly.

If none of your browsers are displaying the images correctly I can only think the issue is with your browser settings for colour management, or that the browser is not reading your monitor profile correctly ?

[pschlute]

I uploaded both JPEGs to Smugmug so that I could view them in Firefox.

Try this instead......

drag the images on your computer directly into new tabs in your browser.

This will rule out a problem with Smugmug not reading the profile correctly.

[DanK]

Try this instead......

drag the images on your computer directly into new tabs in your browser.

This will rule out a problem with Smugmug not reading the profile correctly.

Bingo, as we say this side of the pond.

Thanks for the suggestion. That was indeed the issue. Smugmug must display only in sRGB. Following your suggestion, I dragged the two images I exported yesterday into new tabs in Firefox. They look different, just as they do in Photoshop.