40D 50D or 5D II

[Taur86]

Hi all,

I have a few questions regarding the 3 cameras above, as Ive been offered a choice of 1 for my birthday.

Im far from a pro, i have been to a very short part time photography course where i used the mark 2 and found it to be user friendly but i havent had the chance to handle either of the above.

I do love photography and would like to in the future become more involved with it professionally or not.. I have no equipment this will be where I start.

So this is my dilemma 40D / 50D / 5D mark2?

1. Light meter, as with the mark II there is a light meter within when focusing on an object, does either the 40D/50D have this?

2. Apeture, with the mark II one can only use the expensive, L-series, if im not mistaken, lens which has a very low f. and great quality, is it possible to use thse lenses on the 40/50D and if so, get the full use of the lens

3. Is the difference in fps speed between the 40 / 50 d noticable if any

4. on the 50 is the noise issue still a prob at high iso?

Ive been searching the web for updated comparisons but its mid 2011 and the latest thread ive picked up is from 2009.
Im sure by now most have had experience with all 3 and could share some helpful info

[ktuli]

Taur86 (you may want to put your first name in the 'Real Name' field in your profile so we can address you properly),

That's quite the odd selection of cameras to choose from. Most folks around here recently are doing the T3i/60D/7D debate. I'll try to answer your questions and then add some other thoughts...

1. I'm pretty sure all modern dSLRs have built in light meters... at least any that do automatic exposure. They need to be able to meter the shot in order to determine the exposure. So yes, all of those cameras have a built in light meter.

2. This one is actually a little wrong. The 5DII can use non-L lenses, but because it is a full-frame camera, it can only use Canon's EF series of lenses (of which the L series lenses are a subset). The 40D/50D (and the three I mentioned above) are APS-C sensor cameras and can utilize both the EF series of lenses as well as the EF-S series of lenses. I think in most cases, folks who have the more expensive 5DII will lean towards the L lenses, but I do not believe they are required. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this point as I have no specific experience with the 5DII). The APS-C sensor cameras have a 1.6x crop factor, so a 100mm lens becomes the equivalent of 160mm on those cameras. The pros/cons of that are much more than I will get into here.

3. Looking at the specs for the 50D versus the specs for the 40D you will see that the FPS difference is a mere 0.2 FPS difference in the 40D's favor.

4. I cannot speak to this issue regarding noise on the 50D, sorry.

In reality, you're comparing two different lines of cameras here - the 5DII is in the pro lineup while the 40D and 50D are in the enthusiast/pro-sumer lineup. Costs are widely different, and they're built on different sensors (full frame vs APS-C). Additionally, in the 40D/50D debate, you're also debating older cameras with the 60D being the newest in that lineup, and the 7D having better specs than both as well.

This is a tough question, and some more info might be helpful... like are you trying to save the person giving this to you some money on budget? Or is money no object? Also, what kind of shooting are you planning to be doing with the camera? If landscape, go with the 5DII, but if wildlife, sometimes that 1.6x crop factor of the APS-C sensors is very helpful to make your lenses have more reach. How serious are you about becoming a professional shooter some day?

- Bill

[Snarkbyte]

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth, though it largely amounts to simply re-interating what Bill (ktuli) has already stated.

1. Yep, all of the cameras you mentioned definitely have a "through-the-lens" light meter.

2. As Bill said, the 5DMkII can use any Canon EF lens, but not EF-S lenses. The L designation has nothing to do with it; the 40D and 50D are crop-factor bodies, so they can use either EF or EF-S lenses, L series or otherwise. The 5DMkII can use EF lenses, L series or otherwise, but not EF-S lenses.

3. I doubt there is any noticable difference in speed between the 40D and 50D, all else being equal. The speed of the memory card, for example, could easily be a greater difference than the inherent design differences in these 2 camera bodies. You may want to mention the 7D as a faster alternative to either the 40D or 50D, if you're leaning toward a crop-factor body.

4. Ummm... I don't know.

[rob marshall]

... with the mark II one can only use the expensive, L-series, if im not mistaken, lens which has a very low f. and great quality, is it possible to use thse lenses on the 40/50D and if so, get the full use of the lens

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The 5D can only use EF lenses but they don't have to be L lenses. You can also use the lower quality ordinary EF lenses. You can also use other brand lenses that are designed for full-frame cameras such as the 5D, and these can be cheaper. For Sigma lenses you would need their 'DG' lenses on a full-frame.

I have had a 50D, and I now own a 5D Mk2. I can tell you that the 5D is a far better camera for image quality. As for the difference in features I'm afraid it all bores me senseless. I don't really care about frames per second because I shoot mostly landscape.

As for your choice, if you shoot landscape/architecture I'd go for a 5D. If you shoot macro, planes, table-top still-life I'd go for 50D. BTW, did you mean 60D not 50D?

[arith]

have a few questions regarding the 3 cameras above, as Ive been offered a choice of 1 for my birthday.

Get the 5D MK2 then swap it for a 7D + lens.

[Steve S]

Grab the 5DII and don't look back.

[jiro]

If I were you, I will not have any second thoughts whatsoever and choose the 5D Mk II anytime.

[inkista]

A 5D Mk II costs more than twice either of the other cameras. Even if you wanted one of the other ones, get the 5D Mk II. You could then sell it and get a 50D and an L lens.

[plusX]

Rob,

I've been using 60D for just 3 months, and I am quite disappointed at the image quality. This is my first DSLR equipped with Canon EF-s 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM or EF 70-200 f/4 L IS USM. About 30 years ago, I used film cameras(Hasselblad, Contax), they all made me happy all the time. Some of my digital friend told me to forget about all the good memories about the film camera, otherwise you will never take digital camera with you whatsoever because DSLR can never beat film camera as long as the image quality is concerned.

Nowadays I am seriously considering to trade 60D for 5D(not 5D mk2). I saw some number of pictures taken with 5D, and I think I would love 5D. Although the colors, sharpness and contrast aren't so pronounced, but each picture tells me something different in a modest manner. However, I have a little but practical concern if Canon Korea will keep providing the 5D users with all the necessary supports such as materials, parts, services. The other concern is whether I can get a good quality used 5D.

I visited your website, and all the pictures are just striking me on the brain. How many of them were taken with 5D? I am just curious to know.

Don

[DTruex]

I have used the D60, 30D, 7D and 5D Mk II. The 5D Mk II by far is the best camera body to date. The 7D is good, but the crop factor of the lenses put the 5D over the top for me.

The 5D can use any EF series compatible lens. It can't use any EF-S lenses.

[rob marshall]

Rob,

I've been using 60D for just 3 months, and I am quite disappointed at the image quality. This is my first DSLR equipped with Canon EF-s 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM or EF 70-200 f/4 L IS USM. About 30 years ago, I used film cameras(Hasselblad, Contax), they all made me happy all the time. Some of my digital friend told me to forget about all the good memories about the film camera, otherwise you will never take digital camera with you whatsoever because DSLR can never beat film camera as long as the image quality is concerned.

Nowadays I am seriously considering to trade 60D for 5D(not 5D mk2). I saw some number of pictures taken with 5D, and I think I would love 5D. Although the colors, sharpness and contrast aren't so pronounced, but each picture tells me something different in a modest manner. However, I have a little but practical concern if Canon Korea will keep providing the 5D users with all the necessary supports such as materials, parts, services. The other concern is whether I can get a good quality used 5D.


Don

I'm going to make the mistake of trying to get technical here, so Colin needs to come over the horizon like the 7th cavalry to rescue the waggon train.

The 5DMK2 has a sensor size of 8.64cm2 (36x24mm). It's a 21MP camera - that's 2.4MP per cm2.
The 5DMk1 has a sensor size of 8.64cm2 (36x24mm). It's a 12MP camera - that's 1.38MP per cm2.
The 60D has a sensor size of 3.3cm2 (22x17m). It's a 18MP camera - that's 4.2MP per cm2.

The 5DMk2 and the 60D both have the same processor (Digic4) so they are comparable. It seems to me that a camera (5D Mk2) with a sensor twice the size of the 60D, but only 15% more pixels is going to have better image quality. The 5D Mk1 has one of the best pixel ratios of any digital camera made, but it does have an older processor (Digic2), so isn't really comparable.

I had a Mk1 until recently. It produces beautiful quality images, but you only have 12MP, which is fine if you don't crop too much. The 5Dmk2 has 21MP to play with. I have never used my noise reduction software with the Mk2. It just doesn't need it. I also had a 50D, and although it's a good camera, I did think it was noisy above ISO400. I'd have to say the 5D Mk2 is the best camera on image quality, by quite a long way - but then that's obvious - it is more recent technology and it costs more.

I visited your website, and all the pictures are just striking me on the brain. How many of them were taken with 5D? I am just curious to know.

Only a few of them - I haven't had the Mk2 for long. Most were taken with a 30D, a 50D, the 5D Mk1, and the Panasonic G1 4/3 camera. If you look at the large view of each image on my gallery page there is an 'i' symbol. If you click on that it tells you the camera model, and other EXIF data.

[DTruex]

Higher pixel density is not necessarily better. I have several images I did with a D60 (6.3 MP) that the 5D Mk II compares with very well for detail and color saturation. The 7D had great detail but lacked the saturation of the 5D and D60.

I think the pixel wars are hurting photography more than helping.

[plusX]

I think I share the same thought as Doug pointed out. 5D Mk1 is 12mp and Digic 2 based camera. 60D demonstrates 18mp and Digic 4 processor equipped body. To me, and I guess not a few people agree that images taken with 5D Mk1 are far superior to 60D outputs supposing the conditions including lenses are same. I don't have any answers, maybe Canon engineers even don't know why. The higher density of censor exceeding the support limit of the lenses may cause an adverse side effects. Does this allegation make sense? Overall, which one is better or less better is a purely personal taste.

[Colin Southern]

I've been using 60D for just 3 months, and I am quite disappointed at the image quality. This is my first DSLR equipped with Canon EF-s 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM or EF 70-200 f/4 L IS USM. About 30 years ago, I used film cameras(Hasselblad, Contax), they all made me happy all the time. Some of my digital friend told me to forget about all the good memories about the film camera, otherwise you will never take digital camera with you whatsoever because DSLR can never beat film camera as long as the image quality is concerned.

Hi Don,

Sorry, but several things just don't really add up here. Producing good results has always been a two part thing; with film we took the shot, and more often than not, the lab made the appropriate adjustments. Now that we're shooting digital, WE have to assume responsibility for the post-processing, and I suspect that that's where your problems may lie. Digital has different characteristics to film, but the "film is better" myth was put to bed a long long time ago.

Nowadays I am seriously considering to trade 60D for 5D(not 5D mk2). I saw some number of pictures taken with 5D, and I think I would love 5D. Although the colors, sharpness and contrast aren't so pronounced, but each picture tells me something different in a modest manner. However, I have a little but practical concern if Canon Korea will keep providing the 5D users with all the necessary supports such as materials, parts, services. The other concern is whether I can get a good quality used 5D.

Again, I'd suggest trying to get more to grips with what the actual problem may be - when you think about it, Canon aren't going to make cameras that get worse with subsequent models - and in practice, this rings true also. I lot has been written about pixel densities - my belief is that they do have an indirrect effect on noise (I say indirrect effect because it's impossible to compare apples with apples when comparing various generations), but noise really isn't an issue in real-world photos (only on screens at 100% magnification), so long as the image is correctly exposed and not excessively cropped. Pixel densities have no effect on colour (again, that's a post-processing thing).

[Colin Southern]

Higher pixel density is not necessarily better. I have several images I did with a D60 (6.3 MP) that the 5D Mk II compares with very well for detail and color saturation. The 7D had great detail but lacked the saturation of the 5D and D60.

Saturation is a post-processing issue, not a camera specific issue.

I think the pixel wars are hurting photography more than helping.

I think the "war" should have been declared a draw in the 8 to 12MP range, but I don't think it's hurting; I think some people are not getting the results they're expecting, and are making invalid assumptions as to the cause. Also keep in mind that if you want to compare image quality between older cameras like the 5D and newer ones like the 5D II, you CAN'T do it at 100% side-by side in Photoshop, due to the different MP counts. At a minimum, down-sample the higher MP count image to the lower and then compare (and "magically" the noise will be less).

[plusX]

Colin,

Now I came to know what I need to improve, i.e post-processing skill. Seeing the pictures posted on your website, I am just overwhelmed! I started using Apple Aperture 3, and do not use Canon bundle software DPP. I really have to figure out how to develop my photoshop skill. Thanks for kind advice.

Don

[Colin Southern]

Colin,

Now I came to know what I need to improve, i.e post-processing skill. Seeing the pictures posted on your website, I am just overwhelmed! I started using Apple Aperture 3, and do not use Canon bundle software DPP. I really have to figure out how to develop my photoshop skill. Thanks for kind advice.

Don

Hi Don,

With that attitude, you'll do well. I must apologise - I was quick to point out the problem, but I didn't offer much by way of solution.

Can I suggest posting a few problem images and let's see where the problems lie?

[arith]

Saturation is a post-processing issue, not a camera specific issue.



I think the "war" should have been declared a draw in the 8 to 12MP range, but I don't think it's hurting; I think some people are not getting the results they're expecting, and are making invalid assumptions as to the cause. Also keep in mind that if you want to compare image quality between older cameras like the 5D and newer ones like the 5D II, you CAN'T do it at 100% side-by side in Photoshop, due to the different MP counts. At a minimum, down-sample the higher MP count image to the lower and then compare (and "magically" the noise will be less).

The war is over; did anybody tell this manufacturer who has made a 200 million pixel camera. I think a trick is involved somewhere and it cost nearly as much as your camera Colin.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/...lad_h4d-200ms/

[rpcrowe]

The 5Dii is a great camera and is capable of remarkable imagery.

However, no one should sell the xxD and 7D crop cameras short because the 40D. 50D, 60D and 7D are capable of excellent imagery if equipped with high quality lenses.

I use my 40D and 7D with 17-55mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/4L IS lenses which produce great images. In fact, I used a 30D and a 40D with these two lenses for an extended period. See my 1.6x images at: http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/

Scroll down for the various galleries of the images...

[Colin Southern]

The 5Dii is a great camera and is capable of remarkable imagery.

However, no one should sell the xxD and 7D crop cameras short because the 40D. 50D, 60D and 7D are capable of excellent imagery if equipped with high quality lenses.

I use my 40D and 7D with 17-55mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/4L IS lenses which produce great images. In fact, I used a 30D and a 40D with these two lenses for an extended period. See my 1.6x images at: http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/

Scroll down for the various galleries of the images...

I'd be so bold as to say that - for the average shot - there's really no difference in image quality between anything from a 20D upwards. I have canvas prints on my gallery wall from 20D - 1D3 - 1Ds3 - really can't tell them apart unless I get "up close and personal".