Hand held light meter

[William W]

I use my Gossen Digisix light meter (made in Germany) for landscape photography. . .

That's interesting.

What camera and lens do you typically use for your landscape photography?

WW

[loosecanon]

One area where I find a meter indispennsible is in studio work when one wishes to check the evenesss of lighting, especially in copy work. It is surprising how 0.;1 or 0.2 ev difference across the frame can affect an image tonality, and only an incident lightmeter can measure this properly. Lots of good meters on the market, My Gossen Starlight has served me well for 20 years, and just as accurate as day I bought it.

[Mike Buckley]

One area where I find a meter indispennsible is in studio work when one wishes to check the evenness of lighting, especially in copy work.

That would also be true when checking the evenness of the background, such as when photographing subjects against a translucent bright background lit from behind or an opaque bright background lit from the front and sides. Fortunately, I don't have those needs in my makeshift studio (I prefer uneven lighting), so I never use a handheld meter.

[GeoBonsai]

That's interesting.

What camera and lens do you typically use for your landscape photography?

WW

A Nikon 10-24mm lens for capturing scenes where there's an interesting foreground subject, but mostly my good ole kit lens, the Nikon 18-55mm. Like I stated previously, I use the Gossen Digisix hand-held light meter so I can see all possible f-stop / exposure combinations visible at a glance on the selector ring. That way I can easily shoot in manual mode by picking a combination that I think will capture the scene the way I want, not the way the camera wants.

Here's an image I shot in manual mode using the Gossen Digisix:


Nikon D3300 > Nikon 10-24mm lens > 1/4 sec > f/11 > 13mm > ISO 100

[Manfred M]

Geri - you really are making life tougher than it needs to be. Your camera already has all that functionality built in, and there is certainly no need to use a separate hand-held meter.

First of all, I would refer you to your camera manual. The D3300 has three (four?) advanced operating modes that run from significant automation to totally manual operation. Could I suggest you consider using these, as they will give you every bit as much control as total manual mode with a lot less hassle and possibly fewer missed shots.

If you do want to shoot 100% manual (and I have no issue with that whatsoever; I shot 100% manual for years with my first SLR, as this was the only mode available back then). Under certain circumstances; especially when shooting panorama shots or when I use studio lights, I am 100% manual. For pretty well any other shots, I find that one of the three other modes gives me the same control as manual, without the risk of errors and losing the shot.

You can use the built-in lightmeter and check your exposure through your viewfinder (Pg 109 of your manual). They key advantage to you, the photographer, is that the meter reading is taken of just the scene you have composed, rather than all of the light falling on the light meter's measurement cell.

I probably take 80% of my shots in Aperture Priority Mode another 15% of my shots in Shutter Priority Mode and the remaining 5% will be with Program Mode or Manual Mode.

In Aperture Priority; you select the aperture (i.e. Depth of Field) and the camera will set the correct shutter speed (based on a fixed ISO; if you use a variable ISO, then this comes into play too).

In Shutter Priority; you select the shutter speed (slow to blur motion or fast to freeze motion) and the camera will select the appropriate aperture setting (again, based on a fixed ISO).

[Mike Buckley]

I use the Gossen Digisix hand-held light meter so I can see all possible f-stop / exposure combinations visible at a glance on the selector ring. That way I can easily shoot in manual mode by picking a combination that I think will capture the scene the way I want

As Manfred mentioned, you can do the same thing for this type of scene using the tools built into your camera without the need of a handheld meter. Moreover, once you take your handheld meter reading, the light can quickly change, requiring you to take another meter reading and perhaps losing great light. The meter built into your camera will automatically adjust to the light at the moment the shutter is released.

[William W]

Thanks for answering my question.

Nice picture. I like the softness in the waves – it suits.

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. . . [Nikon D3300] . . .A Nikon 10-24mm lens for capturing scenes where there's an interesting foreground subject, but mostly my good ole kit lens, the Nikon 18-55mm. Like I stated previously, I use the Gossen Digisix hand-held light meter so I can see all possible f-stop / exposure combinations visible at a glance on the selector ring. That way I can easily shoot in manual mode by picking a combination that I think will capture the scene the way I want, not the way the camera wants.

It occurs to me that this is a procedural technique intrinsic to how you form the idea of the final image that you want, in that regard, I understand and appreciate that you like to have a platter of exposure combinations set out in front of you so you can think through and choose how you want the image capture to proceed. That is one method of Landscape Imaging Pre-production.

That technique is uncommon today, but that method was actually taught a while ago, but with a significant additional metering technique of pointing the Hand Held Light Meter to various areas of the scene, usually always especially taking both a “Sky Reading" and also a “Foliage Reading”– see point 2 below and from those meter readings making mental computations on the run.

The use of an Hand Held Meter for Landscape work mostly died out with advances of TTL Light Meters (Through The Lens Light Meter).

One major advantage of a TTL Meter is that it “sees” what the lens “sees”, whereas an Hand Held Light Meter (usually) has one set Field of View for Reflected Light Meter Readings.

***

Specific to the Light Metering Technique that you are presently using for Landscape Imaging, two small points and one exceptionally important point:

1. > Firstly, using the Gossen one cannot see “all” the possible exposure combinations, most of them, yes, but not all of them. This is (mainly) because your camera has an ISO range which exceeds the ISO range of the Gossen’s computations. This point will probably not so important for daytime Landscapes, but could have some relevance at night-time.

2. > Secondly, and more importantly, the Gossen’s FoV (Field of View) for Reflected Light Readings is about 25°

25° equates to the FoV(h) (Horizontal FoV) of your camera when you have a 50mm lens loaded.

So for any shot that you make with a lens of a Focal Length wider than 50mm, your Gossen can NOT meter all of the scene as it will be recorded by your Camera.


3. > Thirdly, the Gossen’s EV Range (the ability to measure really low level light and very bright light accurately) is SMALLER than the EV Range of the Nikon’s TTL Meter (with a moderately fast lens attached, for example your F/2.8 lens). This point again is not so relevant for the common landscapes that you might be Photographing, but could be relevant if you were at the snow or beach in daytime or for a moon-lit landscape capture.

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As previously mentioned - the possibility of changes in the EV of a scene fouling the Hand Held Meter Reading (as one example, cloud movements in the time between taking the Light Meter reading and the Exposure) is also a point to consider and this was also spelled out at College, when this Hand Held Metering Technique was taught.

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Also, there is a similar, but different Landscape Metering Technique, using an HAND HELD SPOT METER, where the Photographer takes a few Spot Readings and computes the exposure manually taking into account the COLOUR of the object read and the RELEVANCE of the EXPOSURE particular area in the scene to the Final Image, as a whole. But, again, this metering method has died out, mainly due to the advances of TTL Light Meters, as modern DSLR's often include a very good (i.e. narrow FoV) Spot Meter, already situated in the Camera.

I actually use the 'take a few Spot Meter Readings / Mental Computation Method' quite a bit, but, although I have a very reliable and very accurate (and also very expensive) Hand Held Spot Meter, it rarely gets use when I am capturing with a DSLR, because two of my three DSLRs have quite a good Spot Metering function already inside them.

WW

[William W]

Geri - you really are making life tougher than it needs to be.

Hi Manfred and Geri

I've been thinking about this statement all day. I think that the statement is 100% correct.

I cannot see any one single advantage for a Photographer to use the Gossen Hand Held, versus the TTL Meter in the Nikon for Landscape Shooting: save that of just fancying to use what is a now outdated metering procedure.

Which is fine to do - but if one wants to use the Gossen Hand Held, then it would bode well to follow the "old method" as I described above.

WW

[GeoBonsai]

Again, best thing about using a hand-held light meter, especially the tiny Gossen Digisix, is you can see all (okay ... the most optimum) possible f/stop and shutter-speed combinations at a glance.

If you want to set values that are off the dial (longer or bulb shutter speeds, for example), at least you know the basic values as starting points.

[Manfred M]

Again, best thing about using a hand-held light meter, especially the tiny Gossen Digisix, is you can see all (okay ... the most optimum) possible f/stop and shutter-speed combinations at a glance.

If you want to set values that are off the dial (longer or bulb shutter speeds, for example), at least you know the basic values as starting points.

Geri, what Bill and I are saying is that you can do this with your camera too and the readings will be much more accurate than your external light meter. How do you think we get our camera settings?

By dialing through the range of either shutter speed or aperture using the command dial, we can see the various shutter speed / aperture combinations for a specific ISO setting to give us the correct exposure.

I see the incident light metering dome in place in your shot. For landscape work you should be using it in reflective mode; i.e the dome should not be over the metering cell (or is this the correct dome position for reflective metering?).

[GeoBonsai]

With my Nikon D3300, I have to use the menu to cycle through several settings to see what my options are in aperture-, exposure-, and manual-exposure modes.

I have to cycle through the menu settings to set the maximum ISO sensitivity I want.

Without the hand-held light meter, I do this with no target values in mind because, yes that's right, I don't really know what I'm doing. But I want to learn--I want to know what I'm doing with the camera settings--and I can learn from the hand-held light meter. Typically, I go into a shoot only knowing I want a wide-open aperture for bokeh or I want long-range focus at f/16 or smaller. The meter values displayed at a glace on the hand-held meter help me make important creative decisions.

By the way, did I say that if you decide the Gossen is for you, don't forget to bring a flashlight because you cannot read the dial in low light with out a flashlight. Yeah, that's a down side. I use the Ultimate Survival Technologies Pico Light 1.0 key-chain flashlight to illuminate the dial in low-light conditions. It's about the size of a, well, door key.

[Mike Buckley]

Geri,

You would do well to take the advice of Manfred and William, especially considering that you have acknowledged that you're really not familiar with the options available to you. I especially recommend, contrary to your thinking, that using your handheld light meter isn't going to help you learn how to use your camera settings nearly as much as instead using your camera's light meter to do that.

Whatever you decide, I hope your pursuit of photography is rewarding.

[William W]

Again, best thing about using a hand-held light meter, especially the tiny Gossen Digisix, is you can see all (okay ... the most optimum) possible f/stop and shutter-speed combinations at a glance.

If you want to set values that are off the dial (longer or bulb shutter speeds, for example), at least you know the basic values as starting points. . .

Yes. I understand that. But it occurs to me that your procedure is both limiting you and is also flawed.

I have a job to get to so am stretched for time ATM

[But at the time of writing I intended to reply later in greater detail], but since have changed my mind.

I did take you at your word here (my bold for emphasis):

I live in San Leandro, California, U.S.A., about four miles from the San Francisco Bay. I've taken snapshot photos since age 10 when I got a Kodak Brownie camera for my birthday. Now, I want to improve my photography skills starting with simplifying my images and learning how to capture the "wow" factor. Hoping you all will help me find my visual "voice."

WW

[jcuknz]

I see a handheld meter except a studio light one as a bit of nostalgic nonsense and if you want to take readings the way one uses a handheld there is nothing to stop you using the camera itself. I indulged myself is such nostalgic nonsense last year in getting a Weston Master but I would not dream of taking it out with the camera when effectively I have a modern spot or general meter in the camera like nothing I ever owned in handheld days. Perhaps if you get an Invercone for it that could add a feature the camera doesn't have but even when I had an Invercone I usually used the back of my hand.

[GeoBonsai]

I just want to see ... visually ... on a chart or on a dial indicator ... on a photograph ... what my f/stop and exposure options are before I decide.

What is preventing you from showing me your photo images?

Here's an example of a some-what-long-exposure where I used the Gossen Digisix hand-held light meter to determine what values to set, while my camera wanted f/5.6 at 1/400, which was not what I wanted.


Nikon D3300 > 10-24mm lens > f/4.5 > 3 sec. > ISO 400

[Mike Buckley]

Geri,

Your initial post in the thread provides the premise that you use your handheld meter for landscape photography. All of the subsequent discussion by Manfred, William and me has understandably assumed that premise didn't change.

Yet your most recent post that you use to support your thinking is not a landscape photo. Just the opposite, it is exactly the type of photography for which a handheld meter used in incident or reflective mode can be especially useful. Your camera's built-in meter would probably be able to give you the same reflective readings but of course only your handheld meter can give you the incident readings.

The point that I find really interesting is that you say your camera "wanted" a particular exposure and that you wanted a different one that was achieved using information provided by your handheld meter. I'm confident that you used the two meters differently. Based on your earlier acknowledgement that you're not proficient using your camera's settings, I'm also reasonably confident that you probably used your camera's meter with less expertise than your handheld meter.

Your question asking what is preventing people from showing their images is at the very best borderline rude. If you took the time to review the countless helpful posts and images provided by Manfred and William over the years, you would realize the contribution they have made to the forum for so long.

In light of that observation, it's clear to me that it's best that I now bow out of this conversation.

[xpatUSA]

It is now my sad duty to steer this thread a bit off-course.

My Dad used one of those meter thingies in the late 40's up until when he stopped serious photography in the 60's, IIRC. But then his camera had a bellows thing on it so the lens could be slid back and forth.

I can not for the life of me see what use it is today - and I'm a manual-only guy who never departs from ISO 100. That also means I usually select an aperture for sharpness or DOF (all static subjects around here; after all, I'm retired) and then twiddle the shutter speed wheel until the "needle" looks right in the viewfinder. Occasionally, I WD40 the ISO wheel after scraping the rust off it.

Pardon my flippancy . .

[William W]

I just want to see ... visually ... on a chart or on a dial indicator ... on a photograph ... what my f/stop and exposure options are before I decide.

Yes.

I believe that I have already stated, twice, that I understand that point.

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What is preventing you from showing me your photo images?

Nothing.

But I do not recall that you asked for examples of my work and also based upon your request in your Bio Page (cited in Post #33) I had chosen to take the role of the advice provider in this conversation: as such I did not deem it necessary to provide examples of my work, because I was giving advice on a procedure and that does not require examples of work.

These are just a few quick grabs of my samples of Landscape Genre that I have made in various places around the world.







With a few clicks of the mouse it is easy to visit my Bio Page here at CiC and there are two folders of my work there . . .

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Here's an example of a some-what-long-exposure where I used the Gossen Digisix hand-held light meter to determine what values to set, while my camera wanted f/5.6 at 1/400, which was not what I wanted.

Clearly, that is not an example of Landscape Photography, which is what we were discussing:

However, (as already mentioned) that is a Shooting Scenario where an INCIDENT reading may be beneficial - but - we were not discussing INCIDENT Meter Readings, either.

Here is an example where I did use an HAND HELD INCIDENT light meter reading was made from under the boat, for this AVAILABLE LIGHT (back lit), Single Exposure, Photograph:



WW

[William W]

. . . Pardon my flippancy . .

haha, that made me laugh

[russellsnr]

OK, I use a Sekonic L758 and IMO best investment I made next to camera,lenses and tripod.
Todays cameras do have very good metering systems but IMO cannot if you want to be accurate beat a light meter.
I no when I take a reading put it in camera that when I get home the image will be correctly exposed.
It has been stated above that by the time you take a reading and shoot the light may have changed but that also applies if you shoot then look at the back of camera at either a Jpeg image or a histogram and decide it's not quite right and have to shoot again.
I think the for and against the use of a light meter debate is like politics or religion in debate, never ending!!!
Make your own mind up and go with it.
Russ