An interesting experiment in public photography

[Seriche]

That is a good idea Seri; but you know I live in two disjoint worlds. The police are helpful only if you are perceived to have money.

I'm was a member of a royal learned society and knew the very highest in society; who would expect and would get professional treatment from the police.

My dad lived in a house in only what can be described as millionaires row, and once through his high powered binoculars he saw somebody walking a dog outside of his garden. It had a six foot wire fence with concrete posts and barbed at the top, but still he phoned the police who come immediately and then drive round to the chap to ask him to move on. even though he was on public land.

I however live on a council estate, I'm not into looking middle class because I don't want to stand out. Once a drug dealer business man objected to me complaining about him picking up casual labour to be paid £2 per hour on building sites and he thought it would be a wheeze if he got some of his cronies to dress up as cops and try to get into my home, to teach me a lesson.

The real cops did nothing.

Then there was a riot outside of at least thirty people with burning barricades.

The cops turned up after it was all over.

My previous next door neighbour hacked my landline by splicing a wire into it and running it through his window.

The cops told him not to be so naughty, and that is it.

It goes on and on. If you look wealthy, or your perceived as middle class you will be treated professionally, otherwise they think you get what you deserve.

Steve,

It's the same almost everywhere, but where I live there's very little crime so people aren't so paranoid. Our police force is one of the most corruption-free in the British Isles, but that doesn't apply to the higher ranks. Masons and money rule, our politicians are either bent or muzzled, the judges aren't much better, and the poor, like me, are given just enough crumbs to keep us from starting a revolution and frightening the merchant bankers away. But I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else in the world.

I still live in a council house because I've deliberately avoided money all my life. I don't like what it does to people. I have friends from all classes though. I dress like a bag lady, but have a posh accent and gave myself a good education, so people don't know how to treat me half the time

Our part of the world doesn't have much in the way of a class system; only newcomers worry about that. It's a relatively small community and everyone just mixes in together. So I would be quite happy to knock on any mansion door over here and ask for permission to take photos without worrying about the reaction.

I lived on a rough estate for 18 years. Quite a few riots, cars being burned out, drug-dealing outside the windows, lover's rows, fights etc. Eventually someone in power took pity on me and my daughter and moved us to a lovely council house on the edge of the countryside. I'm sorry you have to put up with so much trouble. Even though our estate was pretty bad, we only had to ring the police to get them down with the dog vans in minutes.

Disjoint worlds. Yes. It can feel like being in 'The Wood between the Worlds' sometimes.

Seri

[arith]

Steve,

It's the same almost everywhere, but where I live there's very little crime so people aren't so paranoid. Our police force is one of the most corruption-free in the British Isles, but that doesn't apply to the higher ranks. Masons and money rule, our politicians are either bent or muzzled, the judges aren't much better, and the poor, like me, are given just enough crumbs to keep us from starting a revolution and frightening the merchant bankers away. But I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else in the world.

I still live in a council house because I've deliberately avoided money all my life. I don't like what it does to people. I have friends from all classes though. I dress like a bag lady, but have a posh accent and gave myself a good education, so people don't know how to treat me half the time

Our part of the world doesn't have much in the way of a class system; only newcomers worry about that. It's a relatively small community and everyone just mixes in together. So I would be quite happy to knock on any mansion door over here and ask for permission to take photos without worrying about the reaction.

I lived on a rough estate for 18 years. Quite a few riots, cars being burned out, drug-dealing outside the windows, lover's rows, fights etc. Eventually someone in power took pity on me and my daughter and moved us to a lovely council house on the edge of the countryside. I'm sorry you have to put up with so much trouble. Even though our estate was pretty bad, we only had to ring the police to get them down with the dog vans in minutes.

Disjoint worlds. Yes. It can feel like being in 'The Wood between the Worlds' sometimes.

Seri

[Wirefox]

This problem is a very popular subject on some forums and I am surprised by the number of posters that say that the security guard is only doing their job or they are poorly trained. Now firstly both I and the vast majority of people I know do not need to go on an expenses paid course to teach them that harassing people on the street is wrong. And, if it is within their job description to to leave their post to hassle members of the public then we do need to worry. I do not wish to sound condescending but I think we should all realise that we are not necessarily dealing with individuals who will grasp or care about the ins and outs of individual freedoms. If you watch the video carefully the instigators of the confrontation (the guards) all look dazed and confused about what is happening, they have put themselves into a situation where they have very quickly gotten out of their depth in terms of common intelligence. From that point on you will get only posturing and nonsense - that will inevitably lead to aggression if you try to use an intelligent argument. Their confusion and fear will only be escalated if you push a point that is beyond their ability to grasp.

You will notice that as soon as someone who calls himself a manager appears there is slightly more scope to get the point across but not always. It is difficult to comment on the Police generally because their approach has been inconsistent and here as with most institutionalised individuals training is the only way to achieve consistency. Whilst the vast majority of officers will be perfectly civil and informed we should never expect that it will always be the case in all situations.

Speaking from a personal point of view, the few dealings with the Police that I have had have been amicable affairs and if you allow for a certain amount of posturing (very necessary when dealing with certain groups of people) then they are usually quick to appraise what is happening.

Always remember that the same fears that may cause you to be reluctant to provide personal details also exist for the police officer. You suspect his or her motives and they suspect yours. Only information can resolve that. All the information that is needed to defuse a situation can be given by both parties cordially. In the video the photographer and the police officer worked together arrive at mutual understanding. I am not saying we will not encounter the odd nutter - nutters slip through the recruitment shrimping net in all walks of life but if you think about all the millions of encounters between police and photographers very few result in arrest.

[arith]

This problem is a very popular subject on some forums and I am surprised by the number of posters that say that the security guard is only doing their job or they are poorly trained. Now firstly both I and the vast majority of people I know do not need to go on an expenses paid course to teach them that harassing people on the street is wrong.

I can agree with that. But I knew people that they definitely would not harass, they are cowards in the extreme sense since, if I was with one of these people they won't come near, including the cops who turned up in pairs to arrest one of them.

It is for the reason that they pick on people they think are easy targets; like photographers who think that they can reason with them, that I absolutely hate them.

If I go up to one and tap him on the shoulder and say quietly in his ear, 'Walter wants a word,' I guarantee he will wee himself. These are not of WWII material, they are freeks of nature best avoided.

They are cowards and trouble, employed by even bigger cowards.

Sorry is that a bit heavy, Cor

[Wirefox]

Sorry is that a bit heavy, Cor

Steve, there is always a blunt honesty in your words that make them hard to berate.

[The Blue Boy]

Right, firstly a quick apology to John (Shadowman). I snapped a bit. Sorry.

I put this up for the simple reason it makes private security look a bit silly and uninformed (which for the most part, they generally are) and I thought the concept in general was an interesting experiment. I worked in this sector here in the UK for about five years and had privilege of educating not only private security guards of the photographic rights of the british public, but also the police on quite a number of occasions.

The video with the Middlesborough security guard was a bit of an eye opener. Was he sacked? I'd like to know a bit more on that one.

For me, the only people to consider in this sort of respect are, obviously, the police. And as the video obviously shows they are becoming more aware of our rights and their legal position.

But we as photographers have an extremely important responsibility too. We live in troubled times. Cooperation with the authorities shouldn't be a problem. Alright, there may be the odd incident where this will go pear shaped.

I was recently stopped (again) on Market street in Manchester. I was doing 3 second exposures to blur the crowd. Two PCSO's came up and asked what I was doing. Told 'em. Got chatting. Two "real" coppers turn up. All the while I'm still taking pics. So There I am with the D300s on an expensive tripod. One of the PCSO's iPhone rings and he answers. I start laughing. They all look to me a bit bemused. I'll explain when he finishes his call I say. When he does I ask him wether the phone is able to take photographs. It is. High quality video, I ask? It is. So then I say "Do think terrorists are stupid?". The penny drops. It was quite a sureal moment.