Problem with photographing animals in poor lighting conditions

[spetsnaz26]

Thank you, Dave.

There could be a problem with the camera's metering

But what about the optical part of the camera, not letting in enough light on the sensor and cheat the functioning metering system into believing the camera's under-exposing?

use 'average'/'matrix'/whatever Sony call it.

I have always used 'Multi' mode metering in my camera, and 'center' for autofocusing because in pattern mode the camera always focuses on the wrong thing as I mentioned above.

I think if I stick to the camera's suggestion of parameters, the end result always looks correctly exposed (although at the cost of high ISO when lighting isn't very good). It seems to be an inability to let in light that leads to the problem, or am I too exacting on the camera as Colin suggested?

[spetsnaz26]

Hi, Colin,

I believe what you said is part of the problem. The squirrels are on the backlit side of a tree and at the same time under the shade of the same tree.

The rabbits examples were indeed lit directly in an open outdoor condition. However, the sun's occasionally obscured by clouds and the fact that subject is a light brown may require more exposure. If it is true that exposure correction is steep when lighting deviates from 100% sunny day, then it is possible that my choice should have been limited after all.

The following example, though, shows a light-brown in bonifide mid-day sunny day lighting condition. Exposure parameters chosen by the camera are: F5.6@1/250, ISO200.

[Dave Humphries]

But what about the optical part of the camera, not letting in enough light on the sensor and cheat the functioning metering system into believing the camera's under-exposing?

Hi again Ronald,

About the only thing that would cause that is a stuck iris in the lens, possibly while the servo feedback thinks it isn't stuck. Can you think of a way to check? (Peer down the front) You mentioned it likes f/11, has it ever been anywhere else?

Can you use aperture priority, or manual exposure, to force it to shoot a specific aperture and shoot something to prove it does open right up? e.g. give narrow DoF.

Have you tried removing and remounting the lens? (It does come off doesn't it? I am not familiar with the NEX 5) Maybe there's a communication problem caused by a mis-aligned or slightly dirty contact?
Be careful how and where you dismount lens, you don't want dust inside, also don't try to clean any contacts unless you know what you're doing.

My apologies if I am being too cautious for your level of expertise.

Cheers,

[spetsnaz26]

Hi again Ronald,

About the only thing that would cause that is a stuck iris in the lens, possibly while the servo feedback thinks it isn't stuck. Can you think of a way to check? (Peer down the front) You mentioned it likes f/11, has it ever been anywhere else?

Can you use aperture priority, or manual exposure, to force it to shoot a specific aperture and shoot something to prove it does open right up? e.g. give narrow DoF.

Have you tried removing and remounting the lens? (It does come off doesn't it? I am not familiar with the NEX 5) Maybe there's a communication problem caused by a mis-aligned or slightly dirty contact?
Be careful how and where you dismount lens, you don't want dust inside, also don't try to clean any contacts unless you know what you're doing.

My apologies if I am being too cautious for your level of expertise.

Cheers,

The mechanism seems okay. F11 is used a lot in automatic 'landscape' mode, but occasionally F13 is used. As for larger apertures, I've mentioned that the camera almost exclusively uses the smallest F number possible whenever the lighting isn't 100% straight sunny day, so F5.6, F4, F6.5 are all used very frequently.

I rarely swapped the lens so I don't think it's a electronic contact problem. I have a hunch that it has more to do with either my interpretation of the F16 rule, or the camera's ability to let in the maximum amount of light.

In any case, I just feel strange about how shooting everyday photos such as the examples I uploaded can be so challenging for such an advanced (technology-wise, not money-wise of course) camera.

[Colin Southern]

Hi, Colin,

I believe what you said is part of the problem. The squirrels are on the backlit side of a tree and at the same time under the shade of the same tree.

Hi Ronald,

I must admit to not having read through everything in this thread, but what I can say is that (a) The backlit side of trees - especially around other trees - can be very dark, and the numbers you're getting don't particularly surprise me -- especially considering that not only are they in shadow, they're also not particularly reflective.

If you want to test your metering, just get a sheet of white paper - stick some black paper on it - and some medium gray paper on it - shoot it in full sun @ F16 @ ISO 200 @ 1/200th, and lets see how it turns out.

Keep in mind also though, that noise shouldn't be an issue at high ISO settings provided that (a) the shot is correctly exposed (it's mostly the correction of high-ISO images that reveals noise due to the noise floor and shadows being much closer together in a high-ISO image), and (b) the image isn't excessively cropped.

[rpcrowe]

Hi Richard,

Not sure if this is relevant, but keep in mind that "part B" of the sunny 16 rule adds "for a front-lit subject, and at least 2 hours after sunrise to no more than 2 hours before sunset" -- if the subject isn't being lit directly then one can get at least a 3-Stop under-exposure (or have to compensate to the equivalent).

That is certainly true but, IMO there is no way on a sunny day, regardless of the direction of the sun that you would have to expose five stops over...

[Colin Southern]

That is certainly true but, IMO there is no way on a sunny day, regardless of the direction of the sun that you would have to expose five stops over...

Hi Richard,

I'm not so sure -- if the tree is "down-wind" of the sun - and surrounded by other trees - then the only illumination that the subject is going to get is going to be the light reflected from other surrounding (dark) trees - so I think that could well be good for at least 4 stops ... add to that a darker animal that we wish to expose more, that could well be good for another stop.

I still think the best idea is to just test it though; a black + gray + white reference shot in full sunlight should align well with the sunny 16 rule - then the exercise could be repeated in the surround of the trees to see how much compensation needs to be added. I could understand a camera's metering being broken, but to actually require agressive settings to get a correct exposure kinda goes against the physics of how the sensor works, unless the camera inadvertantly has a 2 or 3 stop ND filter fitted.

[spetsnaz26]

Thanks, Colin,

a black + gray + white reference shot in full sunlight should align well with the sunny 16 rule

I've heard that in difficult situations photographers use grey card to help determine exposure. Is it true that the test you mentioned is based on the same idea?

Furthermore, I don't want to buy a specialized card for this test, but I don't have any gray paper either. Is it possible to download a color pattern made for this purpose somewhere on the Internet and print it?

[rpcrowe]

Regarding the image of the rabbit. I still maintain that any DSLR camera should have the ability to shoot a simple image like this one without the problems you are experiencing. I totally agree that a shaded are can be very dark, even when the day is bright and that you can need quite a bit of exposure.

However, the rabbit is in the sun. I don't recall ever shooting any image in the full sun, regardless of the angle of the sun, and needing an exposure like ISO 400 using 1/160 second @ f/4.

How about this experiment to put the problem to rest. If you don't have a friend to shoot next to; visit your local camera store and bring your camera. Test your camera next to another camera. Don't shoot in automatic exposure or automatic ISO. Neither shoot in any of the pre-planned modes (if your camera has such). Use aperture priority mode on each camera and set each camera at ISO 400. Set the aperture at f/4 and point each camera at the same subject. Note the shutter speeds for each camera. You don't even need to shoot an image and don't worry if the shutter speed is too slow to hand-hold. Getting a good picture is not the object of this test. The object is to see if the cameras come close to the same exposure.

I am guessing that your camera will choose a shutter speed a lot slower than the camera which you are testing it against. BTW: is your Sony under warranty of some sort?

[spetsnaz26]

I don't recall ever shooting any image in the full sun, regardless of the angle of the sun, and needing an exposure like ISO 400 using 1/160 second @ f/4.

I remember it was shot in mid-day. However, althought the sun itself was not obscured a large part of the sky could have been covered by clouds which might have affected lighting. I don't know how much difference does this make.

How about this experiment to put the problem to rest.

Good idea. I'll try.

is your Sony under warranty of some sort?

I guess so. Sony products usually come with one year of warranty period. I bought this camera at the end of April this year. I'll need to show them the comparison test you suggested, but I'm not sure they will accept this as a quality problem.