Upgrading from my T1i

[Vincenzo]

Hello!

Soooo I feel as though I'm starting to move past my T1i. Honestly I love it and I find it can generate beautiful images (used carefully). However, some things are starting to bug me.
1- I went to shoot in a studio and it didn't have the flash sync cable..... why not!?
2- ISO obviously isn't great around 800-up (and I can't put custom ISO, it goes from 100 to 200, no 160 and nothing lower than 100).
3- A fullframe could be nice but probably out of my price range since I'm still not racking in tons of a cash. I did have a job as a stills photographer on set of a film but besides that not much else.

So one of my friends suggested a 40d, but I feel like it's not reallllly much of an upgrade besides the flash plugin and rapid fire (which I dont really care for).

I've noticed a few 1d markII and 5d Mark I's floating around 800$ and I'm wondering if I sell my T1i for around 500$ and upgrade or are the older models of the FF cameras just not up to the tech even of the rebels?

Video shooting doesn't really appeal to me. Although the APC-s is nice for wildlife and cutting the soft edges of lenses.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Vincenzo,

I am a Nikon user, so cannot advise too well on Canon other than repeat what I have read here at CiC and apply general principles and knowledge.

1) a pain I agree, but can't you get a hot shoe adaptor?

2) why do you want to go to half or third stops on iso? - It is my understanding, particularly on Canon cameras, it is not recommended; the way the make the intermediate steps gives you the same noise level as the next highest whole stop, so there is no advantage (noise wise) in 160 over 200.
Why do you need less than 100 iso? If your answer is noise, don't worry about it. If the answer is too much light, an ND filter will help, but I can think of shooting examples where these glib answers 'won't wash', so do tell us a bit more please.

3) Do you need wider angles from your current lenses?
Are they all EF?
Or is the desire 'sensor based' in some way, if so how?

Welcome to the CiC forums from ...

[Colin Southern]

Hi Vincenzo,

1- I went to shoot in a studio and it didn't have the flash sync cable..... why not!?

Because they're not present on entry-level models

Easy fixed though ...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...h_Adapter.html

2- ISO obviously isn't great around 800-up (and I can't put custom ISO, it goes from 100 to 200, no 160 and nothing lower than 100).

Intermediate ISOs generally introduce more noise because the camera under-exposes the shot and then digitally manipulates the levels back up. The digital manipulation also increases noise. In terms of high ISO performance, by far the biggest consideration is DO NOT UNDER-EXPOSE (because of the cameras diminished dynamic range at higher ISO settings). If you push the exposure as hard as you can - but without blowing highlights (and then adjust back down in post-processing) then you should get good high-ISO results.

3- A fullframe could be nice but probably out of my price range since I'm still not racking in tons of a cash. I did have a job as a stills photographer on set of a film but besides that not much else.

Full frame can work both for or against us - or (depending on lenses), make no difference.

I've noticed a few 1d markII and 5d Mark I's floating around 800$ and I'm wondering if I sell my T1i for around 500$ and upgrade or are the older models of the FF cameras just not up to the tech even of the rebels?

The 5D1 is basically just a full frame version of something between a 20D and 30D - it can certainly take a nice photo, but it's pretty long in the tooth now. The 1D2 is getting a bit dated now too, but in all honesty, one doesn't buy a camera like that for image quality reasons - one buys it for reasons such as build quality - autofocus performance - firmware options - weather sealing - dual media etc.

At the end of the day, the body (little box at the end of a lens that lets the light in) doesn't play an overly big part of the overall image quality - how are you off for more significant things like tripods? lenses? flashes? etc?

Edit; Oops - great minds think alike Dave!

[Dave Humphries]

Edit; Oops - great minds think alike Dave!

Ah, but guess who I learnt most of it from

[rpcrowe]

1- I went to shoot in a studio and it didn't have the flash sync cable..... why not!?

As Colin stated, entry-level cameras do not have PC sync terminals. I guess that the camera makers don't think that many owners of entry level cameras work with studio strobes and they are probably correct...

Colin's solution works fine but, I personally don't like having my camera physically connected to the strobe. I am so uncoordinated that I could easily trip over the sync cable and knock a light over...

I picked up a Yin Yang infrared trigger many years ago. It sits on the hotshoe of my camera and is powered by a pair of AA batteries. Since studio strobes have the benefit of optical slaves and since studio strobes are used in the manual exposure mode, the YinYan infrared trigger works great. Best of all, it cost me less than ten U.S. dollars.



The only downsides of the YinYang is that I need line of site from trigger to the studio strobe. However I only need LOS to one strobe since firing that strobe would fire the others via their optical slaves. The optical slaves of the studio strobes will also fire if an other photographer is firing a flash in the area. But, since, I am the only photographer working in my studio, this is no problem for me...

Unfortunately the YinYang seems to be unavailable these days but, I would have no hesitation in buying a used unit if I found one since this trigger has functioned so well for me over the years.

There are other basic triggers which seem to do a very decent job at a relatively low price. Again, the trigger doesn't need to be complicated because you are firing the flash manually and no exposure information needs to be communicated between camera and flash. There are quite a few members of my camera club who like ISHOOT triggers which are available very reasonably on eBay and other sites. Here is a trigger and one receiver. The optical slaves of the other studio strobes in your setup will fire the other strobes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SALES-4-U-IS...item415628b481

I have used lighting setup with my camera club and fired the strobes via the ISHOOT triggers and receiver combination and it works just fine. In fact, I might just purchase my own ISHOOT transmitter so I don't have to share when shooting with the club...

The ISHOOT will also fire a hotshoe triggered flash such as the Vivitar 285HV which can be purchased used at minimal cost. Note: since there is no physical connection between flash and strobe, the sometimes very high sync voltage of the Vivitar or other older hotshoe flashes is no problem. I have purchased 285 (series) Vivitars as low as $10 USD at garage sales and they work just fine in the manual mode...

When you plug in the electrical jack of the trigger to a studio strobe, it cancels out the optical strobe of that unit and the strobe will not flash when other strobes are fired around it. If you prefer the optical strobes to be cancelled, you can buy extra receivers or originally buy a set of one trigger with three or four receivers at a pretty reasonable price. The ISHOOT units come with several different adapter plugs which will probably fit most studio strobes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/iSHOOT-PT-04...item3a5f93bf5e

The ISHOOT trigger system seems to be pretty sturdy. It gets a lot of use from my camera club members and no one has any complaints.

There is a plethora of trigger systems which run the gamut from very cheap to very expensive. I would expect that somewhere within this group is a trigger system which will work for you...

[Vincenzo]

hey guys,

Thanks for the welcome!

1) a pain I agree, but can't you get a hot shoe adaptor?

Yeah I was thinking about getting a inexpensive one like rpcrowe suggested but first of I wanted to think about upgrading the body or not. Because then it wouldn't be needed.

2) oh wow I didn't know that 160 produces the same amount as 200. I remember looking at a video saying how steps of ISO has lower noise. (160 lower than 100) but I never tested it myself and maybe it was specific to video...?

Honestly i do a lot of low light shooting situations so therefore it could be under-exposed a bit and like you said that's when it shows. So that's why I was thinking upgrading could benefit in the ISO quality.

However These older FF cameras possibly have outdated hardware compared to the cheaper but newer rebels?

3) My lenses are EF-S 18-55 IS kit lens. 50mm 1.8 II, 70-200f4 L non IS.
Also some M42 mount lenses I use MF, 50mm 1.8, 135 2.8 and 200 f3.5 and a 1.4 extender.

So the only lens would be the wide angle that I wouldn't be able to use, but I've been thinking of upgrading. Thinking I should make a decision cropped or FF... so i dont waste money on a wide.


-Honestly for me the most important things are nice ISO at low level light, image quality (yes I know it depends on lenses but for sure the sensor has to do a good job).

[Andrew76]

Hey Vincenzo, I'm in the same place as you right now, and I've been putting a lot of stock into the 7D. It's getting some pretty awesome reviews, considerably cheaper than the 5D II, (and in my opinion an all-around better camera), and you'd be able to use all of your lenses.

That's just my 2 cents though. I think it's the route I'm going to take.

[Vincenzo]

Hey Vincenzo, I'm in the same place as you right now, and I've been putting a lot of stock into the 7D. It's getting some pretty awesome reviews, considerably cheaper than the 5D II, (and in my opinion an all-around better camera), and you'd be able to use all of your lenses.

That's just my 2 cents though. I think it's the route I'm going to take.

Hey,
Yeah my friend has the 7d and it looks great. Well that's the thing I couldn't justify or afford the 5dmkII thats why i brought up the 5dmk1 or 1dmrk2 since they're pretty cheap used now. Someone is selling the 1Dmk2 for 650$ so I could technically sell my t1i and upgrade for 150$....but I'm worried about the amount of MB and possibly dated image quality...

[Andrew76]

One of the friends I shoot with owns a 1D II - and a Rebel XSi. I've been shooting with him for almost a year now, and he hasn't pulled the 1D out even once. Which says a lot for the XSi!! In fact, he has a portfolio full of portraiture - most of which are studio shots (albeit home basement studio), and all of them he has taken with the XSi - again, just my opinion, but I know personally, when I upgrade, I'm going to get something I know will suit my needs, and right now, the 7D is the forerunner.

Hope that sheds a little insight - (or makes the decision even harder!!!)

[Colin Southern]

Colin's solution works fine but, I personally don't like having my camera physically connected to the strobe. I am so uncoordinated that I could easily trip over the sync cable and knock a light over...

Amen to that brother!

Although I trigger my studio lights wirelessly, I have to shoot tethered to the PC & TV to display the images on the fly - and "cord management" can be a BIG issue - you've no idea how nervous I am when I catch the cord with my foot, and I have about $16,000 worth of gear attached to the end of it, and sitting on a table!

[Vincenzo]

lol oh man 16k worth of gear. Yeah i'd be nervous also.

One of the friends I shoot with owns a 1D II - and a Rebel XSi. I've been shooting with him for almost a year now, and he hasn't pulled the 1D out even once

Yeah that's what I was thinking could happen. Meaning I might forget about FF camera and think about getting a slightly better cropped in the future. I mean if I sell my body for 400-500 id be willing to put another 200 into the body... maybe ill just wait....and save..

[Colin Southern]

2) oh wow I didn't know that 160 produces the same amount as 200. I remember looking at a video saying how steps of ISO has lower noise. (160 lower than 100) but I never tested it myself and maybe it was specific to video...?

Or the video was wrong ...

Basically the way it works is the camera reads out the analog signals accumulated on the sensor, and converts these to a digital equivalent using an analog to digital converter. For higher "full step" ISO modes they simply increase the gain of the amplifier, but for intermediate ISO modes they assume the full stop ISO mode that's lower, and then digitally increase both the signal and the noise. The differences are subtle (so I'm not saying "don't do it") -- all I'm saying is that intermediate ISO steps aren't normally a disadvantage.

Honestly i do a lot of low light shooting situations so therefore it could be under-exposed a bit and like you said that's when it shows. So that's why I was thinking upgrading could benefit in the ISO quality.

Basically, high ISO modes don't create noise per se - it's just that the effective dynamic range of the sensor is decreased by 1 stop for each doubling of the ISO (the sensor's characteristics cant change so the amount of light captured is less and less - and thus is closer and closer to the noise floor - and it's this noise that gets revealed). Often cameras (especially when shooting RAW) will have a 1 to 2 stop exposure "safety margin"; this safety margin is great at low ISO modes, but for higher ISO modes you really can't afford to under-expose by 1 or two stops - so the trick is to push exposures as close to blowing, and then adjust them back down in post-processing.

However These older FF cameras possibly have outdated hardware compared to the cheaper but newer rebels?

About the same to be honest.

[Colin Southern]

Yeah that's what I was thinking could happen. Meaning I might forget about FF camera and think about getting a slightly better cropped in the future..

Keep in mind also that the 1D2 isn't full frame -- for that you'd need a 1Ds2.

[Vincenzo]

Hey Colin! Great informative post.

I tried looking for the video explanation but I couldn't find it

I found this and it kind of explains that shooting at 160 is actually better than 100.... however you'll understand it better than me haha.

http://terragalleria.com/blog/2011/0...-canon-5d-mk2/

at lower ISOs 160 multiples do provide the best results. More precisely, compared with the 1/3 lower ISO value, 160 multiples provide less noise and 1/3 higher speed. 160 may even be a better choice than 100, since it provides 2/3 higher speed and essentially the same noise. The exception is the special ISO setting of 50, which provides the less noise of all, but at the expense of less dynamic range.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Vincenzo,

Interesting reading - and who knows, Canon (and others) may well be doing things differently with later generation cameras (perhaps I'm showing my age!). The fundamentals don't change though, and they are ...

- Dynamic range decreases with increasing ISO - so it becomes more and more important to use the decreasing dynamic range as effectively as possible (ie "don't throw away headroom"), and

- The noise is often only noticeable when pixel-peeping -- and that's NOT how people look at our images in the real world. In reality, the noise we see at 100% just isn't visible at regular image sizes.

Case in point ... this image here ...



I'm not sure if you can see it or not (if not then it just goes to prove my point! ), but it was quite under-exposed when I took it - and at 100% - the sky areas are really quite blotchy (one of my worst actually). None-the-less, I printed it at the usual size (22 x 44") on canvas, as added it to the dozens of others on my gallery walls. So far the percentage of people who have said "I say old boy - bit noisy in the old shadow areas" is 0%, and the percentage who have said "hey, cool shot" is 100%. I'm sure there's a message for all of us 'togs in there somewhere

[BJ Denning]

Appreciating the cost factor, all things being equal FF has the advantage over crop for low light -- right? So you should look at the 5d, 1dsII, or the 5dII. Also probably better to stick to EF lenses since they will work if you get a second camera or decide to change in the future.