mid tone?

[Tobman]

That is basically the way I do it, Toby, but I can only upload one image that way. When I try a second it just doesn't work. Next time I will have a look to see if there is something simple which I am

Geoff, make sure on the subsequent images your not selecting the same big button as you did on the first. It's a smaller button up where it says tiny pic.

[Bill Yeung]

William:

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRReally thank you .
The RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR is because you give me some actual numbers to go for.

Mine is 70-200II IS USM the best I can get.
yes, may be be boldness and set up the ISO 3200! , 1/500 and set tungsen white balance, meter my daughter face and set it all to the manual mode. ( and work out the camera compensation)
this is the setting I can use while she is in skating lesson.
(Ice irnk with lesson going on definitely don't allow flash.)

I got a better situation now with public skating time, can get as close as I want, can use flash......

I should also be more diligent, set up the tripod, and custom bracket with the flash.

Setting the flash to TTL ? but cannot syn after 1/250??

thanks for everyone of you keep on gracefully teaching me better way...

heavenly forum here.

hope to get back to you wiht more better picture...

Bill

[Geoff F]

Bill, what flash unit do you have? My Canon Speedlight has a high speed option and I have successfully shot at 1/640. Although the flash coverage is a bit reduced.

Here is an example from this years regatta. http://www.pbase.com/regatta/image/137927371

I've had to give a link instead of directly posting because it is on another e mail address.

It was dark light with drizzle and I was shooting from a small boat so this image is far from perfect; but it will give an example of what high speed flash can do. 1/640 on 40D with 24-105 lens.

Toby, thanks for that I will give it a go next time.

[William W]

Mine is 70-200II IS USM

Then you should consider the EF x1.4MkIII tele-extender as an alternative to buying the EF400F/2.8L IS MkII

may be be boldness and set up the ISO 3200! , 1/500 and set tungsen white balance, meter my daughter face and set it all to the manual mode. ( and work out the camera compensation)

I am unsure what you mean by “and work out the camera compensation”.

If you mean meter the face and then adjust that to an 18% grey reading to set the camera in manual mode, then that is correct.

If you mean using manual mode and having exposure compensation set in the camera: then that is superfluous.

Setting the flash to TTL ? but cannot syn after 1/250??

For that shooting scenario, if the Flash Illumination is the Key Light (the dominate light) and more than about 1½ stops dominate over the room Ambient, then there is no need to have a faster shutter speed than the Maximum Flash Sync: because the Flash illumination, will adequately freeze the motion of the Child Practicing Skating.

High Speed Sync (HSS), the ability to use a shutter speed faster than Max Flash Sync, is primarily used for Flash as Fill when the ambient is the Key Light.

Apropos coverage: HSS can rob up to 60% of the Flash’s available Shooting Distance.

WW

[Colin Southern]

Bill, what flash unit do you have? My Canon Speedlight has a high speed option and I have successfully shot at 1/640. Although the flash coverage is a bit reduced.

With HSS option turned on, one should be good all the way up to 1/8000th. In HSS mode the flash output flashes at around 50,000khz (and effectively becomes a constant light source). My understanding is that you effectively lose only about 1 stop.

[William W]

My understanding is that you effectively lose [with HHS] only about 1 stop.

Gidday Colin,

I converted it roughly to SD (with Flash as Key, not fill) specifically for the relevance to the OP's concerns re copping / FL of lens / Size of the Subject in the Frame.

WW

[speedneeder]

I shoot pics of my son playing hockey, and my best results by far have been when in manual. As others have suggested, with even lighting, this should allow you to find an exposure that works and use it.
I have tried flash before, but I'm usually shooting at varying distances with the game and find this provides inconsistent results. I have a new flash and will try some HSS stuff this year

[speedneeder]

FYI, for me manual exposure works best mostly due to the large amount of white in any given shot, offset by the players, often wearing dark colors. Depending on how much you zoom in greatly effects the camera's calculated exposure.

[Colin Southern]

Gidday Colin,

I converted it roughly to SD (with Flash as Key, not fill) specifically for the relevance to the OP's concerns re copping / FL of lens / Size of the Subject in the Frame.

WW

Hi Bill,

Hope you're well Following the rugby?

I was actually just replying to Geoff; personally, I fire 4x 580EX II into a softbox out in the field via a 4-Square, so lots of power even when using HSS

[William W]

Well, thank you.

. . . Yeah I understood you were replying to Geoff's quote.
But I wanted to make my post clearer to the whole thread... on re reading what I wrote, it was kind of left field speaking in SD
I have a colleague who went mad testing HSS with a 580mkII.
(For shooting Flash Fill on the hop, at events outdoors - at the beach – who has a wedding at the beach???)
We began with the hypothesis that we'd lose about 30% Shooting Distance.
As the Flash/Ambient ratio is tighter (closer), we ended up losing more than half our SD – and that’s a big chunk.

***

Yes the Rugby – we shall discuss after tonight.
Good Luck to you: but Wallabies to win.

***

Best to you,
Bill

[Colin Southern]

Well, thank you.

. . . Yeah I understood you were replying to Geoff's quote.
But I wanted to make my post clearer to the whole thread... on re reading what I wrote, it was kind of left field speaking in SD
I have a colleague who went mad testing HSS with a 580mkII.
(For shooting Flash Fill on the hop, at events outdoors - at the beach – who has a wedding at the beach???)
We began with the hypothesis that we'd lose about 30% Shooting Distance.
As the Flash/Ambient ratio is tighter (closer), we ended up losing more than half our SD – and that’s a big chunk.

***

Yes the Rugby – we shall discuss after tonight.
Good Luck to you: but Wallabies to win.

***

Best to you,
Bill

Thanks Bill,

You might like to take a look at http://www.lightwaredirect.com/ if you're not familiar with them. I married one up to 4x TT5 / 580EX II, which means a 30" x 30" softbox, but capable of syncing up to 1/8000th (so I can shoot F2.8 / F4.0 in the field, with all the lovely bokeh that entails!).

I'll be interested to hear the rugby result - unfortunately - there's a clash with Formula 1, and at the risk of getting lynched, F1 wins hands down for me

[William W]

Thanks for the link.


Will follow up that tomorrow.
I am just about to remove the corks from the reds and fire up the B-B-Q.

Good afternoon, all.

WW

I'm out

[Geoff F]

When shooting high speed flash I normally get better results by setting the camera options in manual mode then allowing the flash (in evaluative mode) to calculate a suitable flash output. Plus or minus any compensation applied.

[William W]

You might like to take a look at http://www.lightwaredirect.com/ if you're not familiar with them. I married one up to 4x TT5 / 580EX II, which means a 30" x 30" softbox, but capable of syncing up to 1/8000th (so I can shoot F2.8 / F4.0 in the field, with all the lovely bokeh that entails!)

Thank you for the link. Very interesting, I like the mounting for the four Speedlights.
Also I like that the whole unit can be hand held by an assistant.
I am investigating further.
Thanks again for the tip.

We won't talk about the Rugby result, save to say the better team won.
Good luck against France next Sunday

WW

[Colin Southern]

Thank you for the link. Very interesting, I like the mounting for the four Speedlights.
Also I like that the whole unit can be hand held by an assistant.
I am investigating further.
Thanks again for the tip.

Thanks Bill,

FWIW, the rig mounted on a monopod or tripod works REALLY well.

We won't talk about the Rugby result, save to say the better team won.
Good luck against France next Sunday

Thanks Bill,

France are usually somewhat of a nemesis for us

[Bill Yeung]

Hello: I am back,
this is after 1/250, ISO 1600, Flash +1/3, W/B florscent, spot metering.
i can see the face is brighter, but still blurred?

Bill

[Geoff F]

Faces are always difficult, Bill, because they are so soft and round. It needs some good hard edges to look really sharp.

But what often works for me is to add a little Smart Sharpen to just the face. Dependent on your software of course. Otherwise a final bit of Unsharp Mask on the face with fairly low settings can sometimes help.

[William W]

What Geoff F wrote.

Although difficult to analyse such a small a sample file:

 The face does not appear blurred

 The shot appears to be a bit under exposed: never underexpose.

 As a result there is a slight lack of mid tone contrast – contrast adds to the perception of “sharp”

 The flash is on camera and is modelling the profile of the body, the “face” is a small portion of that Profile and therefore there is no direct modelling on the facial features or catch-lights in the eyes: the helmet is black and white and shiny and does not require as much mid tone to make it appears “as sharp” and it has full frontal Flash Lighting on it: your eye is comparing the texture and the lighting of the skin tones to the helmet and you perceive the face is “softer” which it is, but it is not (as far as I can tell from the small image) “blurred” (a more detailed expansion of what Geoff wrote).

 The image requires sharpening, generally.

Rough Indicative – original is on top:



WW

[Bill Yeung]

William:

the Smart Sharpen belongs to Photoshop? as I still using the Canon DPP, and is trialing the CS5 series. ( I don't think I can use it without a book explaining it!!!)
Your "sherpen" to my picture already can satisfiy me in every sense.
The details of the pant is showen. The eye line is much clearer. and may be you also increase the brightness of the picture?
To " never under-exposure" - I think the camers did give a right exposure and I remember I turn it lighter, - and it may be my monitor shown it not as exactly as it did.
also, are currently reading the monitor, calibrating issues as most of the unsatisfaction are noticed after printing.

Thanks William and many others helpful folks here.

you guys are awesome.

I will keep learning and will back with more pictures..

Bill

[William W]

Yes, Smart Sharpen is a feature of Photoshop.

I am (and was when I made the A/B sample above) working on a calibrated studio monitor and in appropriate room lighting, for Digital Photo Editing.

I have two different settings for my monitor, each to match, two Pro Photo Labs where I have my prints made: the setting I was using when I made that A/B was most common for most pro labs, printing on standard Fuji Paper – I dare say “suitable for most pro labs”.

I have a second setting for my monitor, as I sometimes use a specific lab which prints on a transparent plastic product via a process which gives a print something like the old cibachrome.

If I were to change labs or my lab change papers or processes I would re calibrate my monitor to suit – but as I mentioned the calibration setting I normally use, suits most pro labs.

WW