What second hand Canon DSLR should I get please?

[LouiseTopp]

I hope this is the right forum, I've just joined so I am unsure.

I might bite the bullet and instead of going for a bridge camera, try for a second hand Canon DSLR. My budget is around £300 and I am looking for a camera which can do or has:

• The ability for nuts like me just upgrading from compact, to DSLR
• wide angle or Panoramic
• Stitch assist
• a good zoom (so wildlife etc don't run away when I whip my camera out)
• The capability of catching night scenes (So I can set it between 100-200 ISO)
• Must be either 12 0r 14 Mega Pixles
• Viewfinder
• Stabiliser (to stop shakiness)
• Clear sharp shots (obviously)
• On-screen guide help (what ever it's called)
• Ability to delete rubbish shots
• Tripod mount
• Scene Modes (EG landscape, portrait, night, Macro, blah blah)

Must not be:

Too technical that I can't understand what all the buttons do
Not bothered about video, as I have a video camera.

Can't think of anything else at the moment (sure I will). Thanks very much.

[Donald]

That's quite a shopping list you've got there, Louise.

Some of the points you make refer to a camera body and some to the lens(es) that you would fit on to that body. Remember, with a DSLR you can get the body and then get all sorts of different lenses to fit onto that body.

From the way you've worded your message, I am assuming that you are talking about both a body and lens for £300 GBP. And I think you'd be struggling to fulfill your spec list for under that amount of money.

[LouiseTopp]

That's quite a shopping list you've got there, Louise.

Some of the points you make refer to a camera body and some to the lens(es) that you would fit on to that body. Remember, with a DSLR you can get the body and then get all sorts of different lenses to fit onto that body.

From the way you've worded your message, I am assuming that you are talking about both a body and lens for £300 GBP. And I think you'd be struggling to fulfill your spec list for under that amount of money.

Hi thanks. Can you please recommend a starting price please? Should I trust E-Bay?

[Bronny]

Hi Louise, sorry I'm not much help with your price range as I'm in New Zealand so prices are hugely different. I would go for a older body and build lenses up as you can then as you can afford you can upgrade your body. As far as I know all DSLR cameras have a low ISO for night time photography. THere is alot of learning with the DSLR camera and you won't learn all the buttons straight away (it is a big learning curve after the old point and shoots, but a fantastic journey and one you won't regret).
Sorry I have no idea about ebay.... Good luck

[LouiseTopp]

How does the Nikon D3000 Digital SLR Camera compare with the Canon please?

[Geoff F]

I suspect, Louise, that going to a Dslr is going to be a bigger jump than you imagine - including cost.

You mention getting a body but don't include lenses, which is the most important, and expensive bit. They will be interchangeable but that also means that you will probably need more than one.

However let's have a look at your list.

wide angle or Panoramic this refers to the lens not the body. There are various degrees of wide angled lenses, but you might find a 'standard' zoom lens sufficient. Panoramic scenes are created by joining a number of 'standard' shots together with suitable software.

Stitch assist this is also basically an editing software issue.

a good zoom (so wildlife etc don't run away when I whip my camera out) Good Dslr zoom lenses are good - but also expensive. A lot depends on exactly what you want to photograph and how close you can get by stealth. But what I would call a good wildlife lens will cost around £1000 or more new. Smaller lenses, for larger wildlife, can be obtained for a little less than half that amount, new price.

The capability of catching night scenes (So I can set it between 100-200 ISO) Once again this mostly comes down to getting expensive lenses; although, depending on the scene, technique also helps. Flash may also help, but we would really need more specific information on your requirements.

Must be either 12 0r 14 Mega Pixles Why? Unless you are printing extra large sizes you don't really need this amount. For general use something around 8 mp is quite sufficient. Larger mp cameras are relatively new and therefore expensive even secondhand. Certainly above your budget if you also need a lens.

Viewfinder If you mean an eyepiece to look through, this is standard on all Dslr cameras. Live view display on a screen is something which applies to cameras above your price range. And unnecessary for you.

Stabiliser (to stop shakiness) This depends on the actual camera. Some cameras use camera stabilisation while others put it into the lenses. But in many cases, this will be outside your budget. It is something to consider when you look deeper into the situation of exactly what will suit you best. More specific information on intended use would be helpful.

Clear sharp shots (obviously) Dependent on lenses. However, the sharpest lenses do tend to get a bit pricey.

On-screen guide help (what ever it's called) With Dslr cameras it will probably be called 'a book' and will need to be read carefully.

Ability to delete rubbish shots The exact procedure is a bit variable but all Dslr cameras will have this easily available.

Tripod mount Standard on all models.

Scene Modes (EG landscape, portrait, night, Macro, blah blah) At the risk of sounding insensitive or elitist, getting a Dslr allows you to 'play with the grownups' So it is best to avoid these settings and learn to fully understand how to use the camera with the manually controllable alternative settings. But some form of auto settings will be available on all models.

Considering all this, and your budget, I suspect that a Bridge type camera may better suit your requirements at the moment.

However, if you do go for a Dslr you can expect an interesting learning experience which will enable you to create excellent and 'personally crafted' photographs. But expect to keep spending money on new lenses, etc.

And for actual cameras. I would suspect that something like a Canon 20D or 30D plus a general purpose zoom might just come within your budget. Personally, I would consider a Canon 70-300 lens with Image Stabilisation might be suitable and just a little over your price guide.

But once again, we really need exact details of what you wish to photograph.

Nikon make equivalent equipment but I will leave that to the Nikon experts. Also, Olympus is worth considering.

One other thing. Most camera brands run two rather similar ranges of cameras and the second hand price isn't very different between them. For example, the Canon 300D and the 30D. The 30D would generally be regarded as being superior but it is also a little larger and heavier. Some people much prefer this but others find it a little too chunky and weighty.

Having a look at them, in your hand, should easily decide which will suit you best.

But this is mostly just general background thoughts. See what is available secondhand around your price range then return, with extra information about what subjects you will be most likely to photograph. Then we will be able to give more specific recommendations.

[Herman]

Hi Louise
Both Nikon and Canon are good. Being a Canon used I like to think that Canon is a little better but many would differ.
The Nikon AF is better in the pro cameras but the Canon Lenses are the best.
I order to get an idea of what is needed for a realistic budged have a look at Amazon.com and there prices. Here in Canada used camera equipment will sell of about 10 to 20 % less of new. A older camera body like the Canon Rebel (300) would now sell used for 450 CDN if in good shape but that is a 6 meg sensor camera and you are looking for a 12 - 14 meg. Settle on the make of camera, read up on the pros and cons and learn about the step you are about to make, once decided buy the quality lenses and then start to trade up to a better camera body that has the 18 meg pixels
The photography hobby is most rewarding and fun to be involved with.
Good luck and happy shooting hope to see some photos from you soon.

[LouiseTopp]

Thanks very much, I originally wanted to go for the Canon PowerShot SX30 IS Digital Camera which is a bridge. There is a SX40 upgrade. But everyone said I should go for a DSLR this is how the confusement started., should I just stay with the bridge cameras? I have been looking for month's and its really hard to know which one to choose.

[Donald]

should I just stay with the bridge cameras?

Louise

Given where you are in your photographic development and the budget you have, I think that would be a very sensible option.

But don't get caught in to just thinking Canon. There are other bridge cameras out there. The Panasonic Lumix bridge cameras are very popular and a number of people on here use them (I don't so can't speak from personal experience).

There are details of the cameras listed here (this is the online retailer that I use, but there are many others).

[Geoff F]

Can you please recommend a starting price please? Should I trust E-Bay?

If you could push your budget to somewhere closer to £500 you will have a much better chance of obtaining a decent secondhand 'starter' camera and lens.

And with this system you can gradually increase your stock of lenses as you can afford better kit. But this can easily get expensive as there will always be something else which you would like to have.

I have a friend who purchases quite a bit of various items on E bay and he thinks it is a wonderful place.

Personally, a few years ago I once bought a secondhand camera and lens there. My thoughts were that 90% of sellers will bid against you to force up the price. And after eventually making a purchase I discovered, too late, that the lens was faulty.

So I have never returned. But, as I said, some people report having nothing but good experiences there.

Alternatively there are a number of good reliable camera stores which sell equipment that you can inspect before purchase; and give some sort of guarantee.

[LouiseTopp]

Louise

Given where you are in your photographic development and the budget you have, I think that would be a very sensible option.

But don't get caught in to just thinking Canon. There are other bridge cameras out there. The Panasonic Lumix bridge cameras are very popular and a number of people on here use them (I don't so can't speak from personal experience).

There are details of the cameras listed here (this is the online retailer that I use, but there are many others).

Oh Warehouse Express, are they very good. I had a look at the SX40 and I liked what I saw so deep down I think this is what I would like to go for

[rpcrowe]

Welcome to the CiC Forum...

I cannot give you an idea of prices since I live on the other side of the Atlantic from you but, I am very familiar with virtually all varieties of the Canon 1.6x crop cameras which is what you should be aiming at.

I shoot with cameras from the D60 which was the second Canon DSLR camera in the 1.6x format (after the D30) to the latest 7D camera. Any of the Canon DSLR cameras will provide good imagery however, I would recommend that you go no older than to Canon 20D or the Canon 350D (AKA the Canon XT).

The Canon D30, D60 (not to be confused with the more recent 60D) and the Canon 10D are limited as to which Canon lenses they can accept. They cannot accept the AFs lenses so you are limited in lens selection. This eliminates the capability to use the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens which is a decent lens that sells for a very low price Note: The IS designation reflects Image Stabilization which is Canon's name for their shake control system. I also would not get the Canon 300D (AKA: original Digital Rebel) because this camera is limited in certain respects.

I had a Canon 350D which, although certainly not the most capable camera in the Canon lineup can deliver quite decent imagery and is pretty versatile. The 350D along with the Canon 20D should be the least expensive cameras on the used marketthat I would consider. There should be a lot of them available however, they will often be paired with the original 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens which does not have Image Stabilization and which does not produce quite the image quality of the IS lens. The problem with this generation of cameras is that they have been around for quite a while. This would be of no consequence if they were kept in a drawer between birthdays and vacations but, might be a problem if they were given hard use.

I would not limit myself regarding pixel count. I shot with a Canon 10D which is a 6MP model for years and it did very well. Until recently, I shot with an 8-megapixel Canon 30D along with a 10-megapixel Canon 40D. BTW: I still use the 40D on a daily basis along with my 7D as a two camera combination. IMO the 40D is probably the very best value in the Canon used line if you consider price against capability. But, it might be a bit above your entry price. My photos from these two cameras are available at ( http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/ ). All the images in my China galleries were shot with either the 30D or 40D.

Here are two examples:





I am wondering if, for your budget, you might be better served by considering a Bridge Camera such as the Canon G12 or SX40 or a Nikon or other brand equivalent I am not really familiar with these cameras but, they are more in your price range and come equipped with a lens for under 300 quid on your side of the pond. Perhaps someone more familiar with bridge cameras may recommend or not recommend their purchase...

[LouiseTopp]

Welcome to the CiC Forum...

I cannot give you an idea of prices since I live on the other side of the Atlantic from you but, I am very familiar with virtually all varieties of the Canon 1.6x crop cameras which is what you should be aiming at.

I shoot with cameras from the D60 which was the second Canon DSLR camera in the 1.6x format (after the D30) to the latest 7D camera. Any of the Canon DSLR cameras will provide good imagery however, I would recommend that you go no older than to Canon 20D or the Canon 350D (AKA the Canon XT).

The Canon D30, D60 (not to be confused with the more recent 60D) and the Canon 10D are limited as to which Canon lenses they can accept. They cannot accept the AFs lenses so you are limited in lens selection. This eliminates the capability to use the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens which is a decent lens that sells for a very low price Note: The IS designation reflects Image Stabilization which is Canon's name for their shake control system. I also would not get the Canon 300D (AKA: original Digital Rebel) because this camera is limited in certain respects.

I had a Canon 350D which, although certainly not the most capable camera in the Canon lineup can deliver quite decent imagery and is pretty versatile. The 350D along with the Canon 20D should be the least expensive cameras on the used marketthat I would consider. There should be a lot of them available however, they will often be paired with the original 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens which does not have Image Stabilization and which does not produce quite the image quality of the IS lens. The problem with this generation of cameras is that they have been around for quite a while. This would be of no consequence if they were kept in a drawer between birthdays and vacations but, might be a problem if they were given hard use.

I would not limit myself regarding pixel count. I shot with a Canon 10D which is a 6MP model for years and it did very well. Until recently, I shot with an 8-megapixel Canon 30D along with a 10-megapixel Canon 40D. BTW: I still use the 40D on a daily basis along with my 7D as a two camera combination. IMO the 40D is probably the very best value in the Canon used line if you consider price against capability. But, it might be a bit above your entry price. My photos from these two cameras are available at ( http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/ ). All the images in my China galleries were shot with either the 30D or 40D.

Here are two examples:





I am wondering if, for your budget, you might be better served by considering a Bridge Camera such as the Canon G12 or SX40 or a Nikon or other brand equivalent I am not really familiar with these cameras but, they are more in your price range and come equipped with a lens for under 300 quid on your side of the pond. Perhaps someone more familiar with bridge cameras may recommend or not recommend their purchase...

Hi whats the difference between the 30d and the 40D please?

[Donald]

Oh Warehouse Express, are they very good.

I've always found them very competitive and very reliable.

[rpcrowe]

Louise asked, "Hi whats the difference between the 30d and the 40D please?"

The 30D and 40D are both very capable cameras.

The 30D is an 8.0 megapixel camera while the 40D is 10.1... This is not a great difference IMO because I pretty well crop in the camera and don't need to do much post processing cropping. IMO, pixel count is somewhat a sales gimic.

The burst speed of the 30D is 5-frames per second while the 40D has a 6.5-FPS burst speed. Again, this is not a decisive factor for me.

The 30D LCD is smaller at 2.5 inch while the 40D is larger at 3.0 inches. This is a noticable difference but, the 30D is quite workable although the menues are easier to read for my aging eyes on the 40D's bigger screen.

The 30D doesn't have live view and the 40D does. I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I have shot using live view but, for some photographers, that is a deciding factor.

The buffer size of the 40D is larger so you can shoot 75 JPG or 17 Raw images at a burst. The 30D allows you to shoot 30 JPG or 11 RAW at a burst. Except for serious sport photographers, the 30D buffer should be adequate for most needs.

The 40D has dust control for the sensor. I like this but, since I don't do a lot of lens changing in the field because I shoot with a pair of cameras. This is not a critical capability for my use.

The 40D is capable of wireless file transfer and the 30D is not. I have never used wireless transfer and I don't expect that I ever will.

I like the viewfinder array on the 40D better because, among other information it shows the ISO you are shooting at.

The 40D has a file size called sRAW which is a smaller version of RAW capture. I never use this.

The 40D has three user selected modes which I really like. You can select the parameters for your capture (ISO, focus, burst rate, exposure, etc) and register these as user selected modes one through three. Then you can select all of the parameters in that set by a simply twist of the mode dial. I love this capability because I can select shooting parameters in advance when I am not under the stress of shooting rather than adjusting parameter sets individually.

The 40D accepts interchangeable focusing screens. I have never used this option. It might be nice for some photographers especially those who frequently use manual focus lenses.

The 40D should have slightly better ISO performance with less noise at higher ISO. I seldom shoot at very high ISO levels and use a noise supression software when needed.

The 40D has slightly better auto focus performance but, that is really only apparent with fast moving subjects when you are shooting with a lens that has a maximum aperture of f/2.8 or better. For day to day shooting, I have not noticed a great difference.

Do I like the 40D better than the 30D? Yes I do. It's not for any one or two great differences but because of a number of subtle differences. Would I be willing to shoot with a 30D, yes I would. I shot with the 30D alongside the 40D for a long while.

Here is a guide which compares the 40D to the 30D as well as to some other Canon DSLR cameras.
http://www.digital-slr-guide.com/canon-40d-guide.html

If you are buying a camera equipped with an 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Kit lens, the 40D is more likely to have the better IS version of that lens since that is what the camera was sometimes sold including.

[PhotoRob]

Not Canon, but...

Popular Photography had some good things to say about the Fuji FinePix HS20/22 EXR.

OEM Website:
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/dig...nepix_hs20exr/

And it's approximately in your budget (and gets good customer reviews):

http://www.amazon.com/Fujifilm-FineP.../dp/B004HO58OI

:-)

[LouiseTopp]

I have found another one now called the Olympus EPL1 pen. I tried it out, the screen is a bit smaller but I like it. What do you think of this one please?

There is an upgraded version, but this one I like better.

[Donald]

Louise - I don't know that camera at all. But dpreview was certainly pretty positive about it in its May 2010 review.

trustedreviews.com said, "The general impression of the Olympus Pen E-PL1 is not that this is a cut-down version of the E-P2, but that it is well-made high-spec compact camera that has been equipped with interchangeable lenses. This is a true bridge camera, even more so than the E-P2, the Lumix GF1 or even the Sony NEX-5. It sits mid-way between compact cameras and DSLRs, offering a good compromise between convenience and creativity, with good performance and superior image quality and at a reasonably affordable price."

On the basis of those reviews, I'd say you're looking at a very serious option there.

And, if you've handled it and like the feel, etc, then you've got yourself a very real possibility.

And what you've got to remember is, as you suggested in one of the posts above, you could spend your whole life looking at options and never make a decision. If you've handled something you like and the reviews you can find are positive, then I'd be very tempted to say 'Yes, that's the one'.

[LouiseTopp]

I think this is the one, screen may be smaller but then I'm not bothered yet. Jessops are throwing in a camera bag and sim card for £333.90.

[Donald]

I think this is the one, screen may be smaller but then I'm not bothered yet. Jessops are throwing in a camera bag and sim card for £333.90.

We can't tell you to go for it. But ....... go for it.