Cheese Graters and Tinfoil

[Loose Canon]

For the last year or so a single young mother has been asking me to shoot her son. She is struggling, lives with her mom and dad and raising this young lad. She has never had the chance to have any photographs of her son made nor had any extra cash to make that happen. She was talking to my wife about this some time ago and broke into tears going on about being a bad mother. She is anything but and her son is a good kid, though a typical sixteen year old with the requisite rebellious tendencies.

For the last year I have refused her. I didn't think I could do it. This year she was hoping for at least one shot of her son to give to her family for Christmas. She said she wanted 5-4x6’s so they could have something of him from her that was a little more than a snapper taken by grandpa or something.

It finally dawned on me and I am, quite frankly, ashamed. If I have the opportunity to maybe have a shot at making even one person happy, even once, then what the heck is wrong with me if I don’t?

So off we went so see what we could come up with!

My subject was great, though he had his requisite rebellion! Showed up in a grubby T-shirt, camo army jacket, and un-showered. I think just to make a point! Point taken. You can do a lot in Photoshop but I have yet to figure how to make a photo a “scratch ‘n sniff” anyway so it made me no difference! It was clear he would rather be someplace else. Like maybe standing around somewhere rubbing his head with a cheese grater while chewing on a piece of tinfoil! I finally had to explain to him that the sooner he helped me help him, the quicker he could go rub his head with a cheese grater and chew on a ball of tinfoil! He settled down a bit. I have known this young man a couple of years and have a little history with him, so no worries when I assured him I would back over him with his own mother’s car! Twice!

Some technical aspects:
Shoot was on a brightly sunlit day. I found some shade to shoot in and when I couldn’t, tried to use the sun as best I could. I tried to shoot under a number of differing conditions.
One Speedlite triggered with a cable. A long one because I shot with a 70-200.
Shot camera and Speedlight both in manual.
Experimentation with apertures/shutter speed. ISO kept to 100. Though in retrospect could have upped it a tad under the outdoor gazebo.
VAL whose attention tended to wander. She did great, but I had some great shots with my subject’s gut nicely lit, and on another important series looked over to see my VAL had my light pointed at her knee staring off into the distance!
VAL #2 lost my reflector and it went rolling down a hill and off a bluff. I had to send her son (my subject) after it!
It was windy so I decided not to use any diffusion. I hoped to do as best I could with a bare Speedlite’s zoom, power, and proximity.

Lots of lessons learned, and we got a few decent shots. Or at least they thought so.

She liked this one and this is the one she wants for her family. I told her I was going to order some for myself so I could discreetly help her mitigate the printing costs and so she could get 8x10’s for her Christmas gifts.

My time was given freely and we all had a blast!

More to the point here, if there is one, I hit him with the Speedlight, the sun and used a fast shutter.

Funny thing. With this shot I am noticing a difference in what I see in Photoshop and what I see in Bridge color wise.

I think I need to go stand around somewhere rubbing my head with a cheese grater and chew on some tinfoil!

Naturally, any C&C and favorite brands of tinfoil are welcome!

[Colin Southern]

Hi Terry,

Wow - where to start ...

I can relate to all of this, and unless I'm reading you wrong, I suspect that you've not only learned a lot about location portraiture during this shoot, but a bit about yourself as well (very "zen" sounding I know!).

To be honest, I've done (and continue to do) a lot of things for no other motivation than the joy it gives to others; in my flying days I'd occasionally have someone walk into the club wanting to know about learning to fly - and often I'd grab a plane (at my expense) and take him up for 1/2 hour or so. Photographically, I've been priviliged to be the first to professionally photograph many young ladies - and the satisfaction one gets from them gaining confidence and discovering that there really isn't any difference in how they look -v- the "stars" on the covers of the magazines is immense (a recent first-time model has now managed several shoots around the district and even one in another part of the country -- all due to the confidence they got from someone taking the time and making the effort to invest a little in them -- and that's a good feeling (as I suspect you've discovered!). And without realising it, I think these kinds of opportunities make us better photographers and better people too -- so it's a win/win for everyone.

In terms of the shot, I think it's pretty good -- I'm sure you know by now how bad it would have looked without the fill flash! Working in hard light is "hard" though (no pun intended). Next time, just think of one thing you could have done better - do it - rinse and repeat

[Donald]

Terry

I'd endorse what Colin said re doing something for someone else, just because you can. Well done.

And you produced a mighty good picture from it as well.

[FrankMi]

Hi Terry, I'm sure the mom and son were both thrilled at the results, but I suspect that you also got a good deal of pleasure out of being able to make such a positive impact on their lives.

[speedneeder]

Hi Terry,
Looks pretty good to me too
I might prefer the shadow from his nose was a little less pronounced, but this is better than anything I have managed outdoors. The overall exposure and sharpness are good. Thanks for sharing your story and posting this photo

[GrahamH]

After the preamble setting the scene I was expectng a much harder edged pose, but this is also good.
As I scrolled down I saw the top half of the pic first and liked it, but it lost a couple of points once I got to below the branch. I would suggest cropping off the bottom section from just below the branch. It also focuses the pic onto the face to a greater extent. Nice pic either way.

Graham

[PRSearls]

Terry,

Good job on this shot. I agree with Graham's suggestion about cropping the lower part of the image. A reflector on the right side of the subject would soften the nose shadow. It's hard to visualize this unless you've shot lots of images like this. Post processing could also be used to lighten this shadow.

I also identify with your comments about providing a free or low cost service to others. I donate my photography skills to my church at no charge. They could never afford or would hire a professional photographer so I feel I'm filling a small need and it makes me happy to be able to contribute. I do not compete with a pro trying to earn a living. I give away prints to friends and family; their happiness and appreciation is gratifying and sufficient payment for me.

- Paul -

[Mark von Kanel]

Terry, bloody well done! its a great image which need a little cropping and pp pity about the nose shadow, its great of you to give your time freely to such a cause and im sure there will be lots of help with the pp to make this image even better

[Loose Canon]

Hi Terry,

Wow - where to start ...

I can relate to all of this, and unless I'm reading you wrong, I suspect that you've not only learned a lot about location portraiture during this shoot, but a bit about yourself as well (very "zen" sounding I know!).

I don't think you are reading me wrong at all, Colin. In fact you are right on both counts. I really kind of wanted to admit what a schmuck I have been about this thing. I realize it and confession is supposedly good for the Soul. I may not have been able to do it at an earlier time, or at least as well as I have now. However good or bad that may be, I'm pretty sure it may have been worse say, six months ago. At least now I felt like I had a fighting chance!

But I'm glad I waited, and doubly glad I finally told her I would finally do it for her. I'm just kind of sorry I had to wait. And I'm sorry for her disappointment because I kept telling her no. But all things in their time, I suppose!

Terry

I'd endorse what Colin said re doing something for someone else, just because you can. Well done.

And you produced a mighty good picture from it as well.

Thank you Donald. May we all endeavor to do as much of that as we can.

Hi Terry, I'm sure the mom and son were both thrilled at the results, but I suspect that you also got a good deal of pleasure out of being able to make such a positive impact on their lives.

You are right on both counts, Frank. Plus the added advantage of what I took away from this as far as what to do differently next time. Hope you are in the midst of having a wonderful Anniversary, Frank! Congratulations to you and your Lovely and Charming Bride!

Hi Terry,
Looks pretty good to me too
I might prefer the shadow from his nose was a little less pronounced, but this is better than anything I have managed outdoors. The overall exposure and sharpness are good. Thanks for sharing your story and posting this photo.

Thank you Brian. Actually that shadow bugged me too. I did as much dodging as I felt comfortable with on it, but that is one of the things that I am going to have to work on for next time. I may try a little soft cloning to make it a little less prominent or something. As I recall, my reflector was doing its best to commit suicide by flinging itself off a cliff around this time!

After the preamble setting the scene I was expectng a much harder edged pose, but this is also good.
As I scrolled down I saw the top half of the pic first and liked it, but it lost a couple of points once I got to below the branch. I would suggest cropping off the bottom section from just below the branch. It also focuses the pic onto the face to a greater extent. Nice pic either way.

Thank you Graham. And thats putting it very diplomatically! I would have called it a pre-ramble if not worse!

The shot lost points for me too on this. For me it was due to this scraggly t-shirt this kid is wearing. I talked to him several days before the shoot. Told him what I'd like for him to wear. Told him a nice shirt with a collar, or at least a nice non-collar shirt, on the darker side, and if he wanted bring a couple of shirts. He plays basketball for his school team and I told him if he wanted to bring their school team warmup gear and I'd get a few with him in that. He was totally down with this, or at least I thought. When he showed up dressed like this with no alternatives, I could have pinched his head off!

At that point there was nothing to be done for it, so if he and most importantly his momma were okay with it, then I was obliged to fulfill my promise.

The shot was cropped for 8x10". I wonder how that aspect ratio would transfer to print if I cropped in fairly tight. I might give that a shot.

Terry,

Good job on this shot. I agree with Graham's suggestion about cropping the lower part of the image. A reflector on the right side of the subject would soften the nose shadow. It's hard to visualize this unless you've shot lots of images like this. Post processing could also be used to lighten this shadow.

Thank you, Paul. That shadow jumped right out at me. Hopefully going forward, I'll actually get to shoot more images like this and with that in mind.

I also identify with your comments about providing a free or low cost service to others. I donate my photography skills to my church at no charge. They could never afford or would hire a professional photographer so I feel I'm filling a small need and it makes me happy to be able to contribute. I do not compete with a pro trying to earn a living. I give away prints to friends and family; their happiness and appreciation is gratifying and sufficient payment for me.

You are an Inspiration, sir, and that is exactly what I am going to do. In fact, I spent an entire week last summer shooting the Vacation Bible School for my church. It was hard work, and I was putting in 10-12 hour days, submitting dailies, etc. It was also one of the most fun things I have ever done. But that's another "ramble"!

Terry, bloody well done! its a great image which need a little cropping and pp pity about the nose shadow, its great of you to give your time freely to such a cause and im sure there will be lots of help with the pp to make this image even better.

Thank you Mark. A pity indeed and now its appropriately in my feeble mind. I took out some of the harsher shadows that appeared under his glasses. in fact, lightened his glasses lenses a bit. They are the type that turn dark in the sunlight. Some blemish removal, skin softening, I guess what is kind of the usual stuff. But I sure wanted to get the lighting right. Guess if I want to find my way to Carnegie Hall its practice, practice, practice!

[Viana]

Nice work, Terry!


It always feels better (at least to me) to give than to receive.


At the risk of sounding ignorant. . . What is this “cheese grater, tin foil” stuff? It made my teeth hurt just reading it.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Terry,

The "trick" with the shadows is to use a diffuser to stop hard light from the sun and/or flash reaching the subject directly. Makes a world of difference.

(and they're cheap!)

[Loose Canon]

It always feels better (at least to me) to give than to receive.


At the risk of sounding ignorant. . . What is this “cheese grater, tin foil” stuff? It made my teeth hurt just reading it.

Thank you, Viana. You are absolutely right. In fact, it is my belief that it is the best investment return you can ever get. I know you know this, but it can't be done for the return. That isn't what it's about. I'm just voicing this for my own reminder. Sure is a cool side effect, though!

You gave me a chuckle! The cheese grater/tinfoil thing was my feeble attempt at sarcasm! I got the feeling that the young man would rather have been doing something/anything else rather than what we were doing. He gave us the impression that he would have had more fun with the grater/foil thing! In the end, he gave me a huge hug, had a blast with his momma (I have some nice candids of them clowning around which they want and I am going to get to them). Now he wants me to come shoot a couple of basketball games! He was just having a teen moment at the time!

Hi Terry,

The "trick" with the shadows is to use a diffuser to stop hard light from the sun and/or flash reaching the subject directly. Makes a world of difference.

(and they're cheap!)

Hi Colin,

Thank you for that. I have a couple of diffusers available. So I'll get them into the mix, fill them with light, and up the intensity as needed. I am guessing another part of your sage advice would be to get it close, soften it as much as possible this way and save on the power settings/recycle time. So I'm going to see about going this direction next time out.

[Colin Southern]

He gave us the impression that he would have had more fun with the grater/foil thing! In the end, he gave me a huge hug, had a blast with his momma (I have some nice candids of them clowning around which they want and I am going to get to them). Now he wants me to come shoot a couple of basketball games! He was just having a teen moment at the time!

I think a big part of the problem is that guys usually don't like having their photos taken anyway - and heaven forbid by someone whom they think might make them look (in their eyes) worse than they already feel they look. I get this reservation with the girls I shoot; they're at an age where they're super-self-conscious about their looks, and this dude wants them to turn up with very little makeup! eeeeeeeeek!

Thank you for that. I have a couple of diffusers available. So I'll get them into the mix, fill them with light, and up the intensity as needed. I am guessing another part of your sage advice would be to get it close, soften it as much as possible this way and save on the power settings/recycle time. So I'm going to see about going this direction next time out.

Sorta/kinda. You've got a couple of variables here. First I should say though that I'm talking about diffuers that are the size of silver/gold reflectors - not ones that go directly on your flash. Basically, the closer they are to the subject, the softer the light (because the effective size of the light source is bigger), but if you put the flash too close to the diffuser then it won't fully illuminate it's entire area (and it'll struggle to dump enough light because it'll be too spread out). Not just talking about diffusing flash here though - it's the best thing since sliced bread for killing dappled light or unwanted direct sun on a subject.

If you look at this shot - on the ground to the camera-left of the victim, you'll see the dappled light that would have hit the subject (as well as a perfect reproduction of it on the diffuser).



And here's the final shot - sorta shot in the middle of the day.

[Loose Canon]

Hi Colin,

Guess I misunderstood. Thank you for coming back with a word of explanation. The flash diffusers I have available at the moment are a small(ish) softbox and a 46” brolley. I would have put them on an adaptor and handheld by a VAL. I have a light stand and portable (light duty) boom stand. Not much question it would have been a multiple suicide attempt in the 30+ knot sustained winds!

I also have, and tried to use a diffuser of the type you mentioned. A 5in1 about the same size as your illustration. As I mentioned, I tried to use this as an opportunity to shoot in several different conditions. I actually tried to diffuse the overhead and some dappled that I purposely put the victim in. It didn’t work out for me. Couldn’t get it high enough. I thought about bringing a ladder, and knew that the more equipment I had, the less success I was going to see in this case. Not the least of which was your explaination of the self-consciousness my victim brought with him. A ton of stuff to set up and deal with in front of him I didn’t think would help. As I think about it, and per your advice, I could have clamped the reflector/diffuser to that light stand or boom to get some altitude and had momma “man” it.

I think I ended up fighting the ambient, which wasn’t going to produce the exact results I was looking for in this case.

In the shot that I posted, I can also see what you are talking about. My reasoning here was to put the sun at his back, use it for hair and backlight, and gun him with the flash. This one I maybe could/should have used the reflector/diffuser. A bit less of an overhead (severe) angle and could have caught the ambient source (sun) with some diffusion. That way, could have gotten what I wanted with less hard ambient and maybe more control over and possibly less needed “provided”, and less, well, nose shadow and nicer lighting all around. And less in post.

Colin, I am kind of “thinking out loud” here maybe more so than responding. Well, both I guess. I think (hope) I am getting the gist of it. What’s even more amazing to me is that I think I am understanding it.

I really appreciate you hanging with me here on this, Colin, and helping me get my thought processes aligned.

[GrahamH]

Shadows, no shadows! Aarrgghh
Some people like them as they provide depth to the image, others don't cos they are a distraction. What to do?

What are the learning points here that you have discovered?

I did a location shoot yesterday for a friend (another thread). I started off with giving her a book of poses and told her to pick one - silence fora while. She struggled. So I took one (at random on the page she was one) posed her in a similar manner, showed her hubby. He loved it , she was so so, until I explained that She wasn't sub 20, blonde or dressed in expensive clothes with makeup and hair styled. Taking that into account, she looked pretty good. Now I was in the drivers seat and the shoot went very well (until we were back from location and the shoot continued inside, another story).

So, find what turns him on. At that age, a good picture, edgy, showing attitude may be just the sort of picture that he thinks (whether or not it's true, his immediate perception is the important thing) would make him more attractive to his chosen gender (all these words trying to be PC, and I've still probably cheesed people off). Once you've dangled the hook and he takes, then you have a little more control and you can also get the MOM shot.

Graham
(now THAT'S rambling)

[Colin Southern]

Hi Terry,

Guess I misunderstood. Thank you for coming back with a word of explanation. The flash diffusers I have available at the moment are a small(ish) softbox and a 46” brolley. I would have put them on an adaptor and handheld by a VAL. I have a light stand and portable (light duty) boom stand. Not much question it would have been a multiple suicide attempt in the 30+ knot sustained winds!

Little diffusers are tantamount to useless outside, and big ones in 30+ knot winds are nigh on impossible. Keep in mind though (and I should have mentioned this last time) that with guys, you don't need light that's as soft.

I also have, and tried to use a diffuser of the type you mentioned. A 5in1 about the same size as your illustration. As I mentioned, I tried to use this as an opportunity to shoot in several different conditions. I actually tried to diffuse the overhead and some dappled that I purposely put the victim in. It didn’t work out for me. Couldn’t get it high enough. I thought about bringing a ladder, and knew that the more equipment I had, the less success I was going to see in this case. Not the least of which was your explaination of the self-consciousness my victim brought with him. A ton of stuff to set up and deal with in front of him I didn’t think would help. As I think about it, and per your advice, I could have clamped the reflector/diffuser to that light stand or boom to get some altitude and had momma “man” it.

I sense you're starting to gain an understanding as to why quality portraiture isn't always as easy as it looks! (especially without a VAL or two). People start by thinking "all I need is a camera and a flash" - then they discover that the flash needs to be off-camera - and then needs to be triggered somehow - and then needs to be fired into a diffuser - then doesn't have enough power (so you use more of them) - and they need to be triggered also - and you can need BIG diffusers if shooting in the middle of the day - and they can have problems in the wind - and you can need ladders ... and that's all just for STARTERS!

It always amazes me when people look at a girl on a calender thinking "thats' a nice shot", not realising that she spent 3 hours in makeup - they spent 3 days building the set - used $100,000 worth of lighting - had photograper - 2 or more VALs - director - makeup artist - agents etc all for that one "natural looking" photo.

I think I ended up fighting the ambient, which wasn’t going to produce the exact results I was looking for in this case.

It's pretty hard shooting in naked sunlight -- I always look for shade wherever possible.

In the shot that I posted, I can also see what you are talking about. My reasoning here was to put the sun at his back, use it for hair and backlight, and gun him with the flash. This one I maybe could/should have used the reflector/diffuser. A bit less of an overhead (severe) angle and could have caught the ambient source (sun) with some diffusion. That way, could have gotten what I wanted with less hard ambient and maybe more control over and possibly less needed “provided”, and less, well, nose shadow and nicer lighting all around. And less in post.

It's a good theory, but in practice you may need to under-expose (thus "over-powering the sun") to prevent the sun getting too much exposure in the shot -- and then you need some serious fire-power to fill in the missing bits. It's not easy - especially if you don't have heavy artillery.

Colin, I am kind of “thinking out loud” here maybe more so than responding. Well, both I guess. I think (hope) I am getting the gist of it. What’s even more amazing to me is that I think I am understanding it.

I really appreciate you hanging with me here on this, Colin, and helping me get my thought processes aligned.

No worries

I suspect that you're starting to learn a lot as you do this -- and I'll bet you also starting to realise how there's just no way people can learn this kind of stuff without gaining hands-on experience actually doing it

Don't worry - as they say, "there's no photographic problem that money can't solve"!

[Colin Southern]

Shadows, no shadows! Aarrgghh
Some people like them as they provide depth to the image, others don't cos they are a distraction. What to do?

Hi Graham,

I think that a lot of people don't understand the different TYPES of shadows (hard, soft, light, dark) - nor do they understand correct lighting direction that makes or breaks them.

Generally, hard and contrasty shadows aren't flattering. Take this image for example - it's pretty contrasty, but because the shadows are soft (due to massive light source), the shot still works ...



Same with this shot - I've used a pretty hard light, but it's not as contrasty, and the direction of the key light is good - so it still works (even on a female) ...



What we generally DON'T want is hard & contrasty shadows + coming from the wrong direction. I generally aim for a loop or key lighting -- in fact I even brief the models on making sure that they can see the key light with BOTH eyes (to avoid "dead eye").

[Loose Canon]

Hi Graham,

Awesome Ramble! And an even better question! One which I will be happy to answer. And one which I have answered to some degree.

But as far as shadows, no shadows? If I may add to the Ramble (again!)?

There is no good without evil. No day without night. You have to laugh to keep from crying sometimes. Good lighting is totally dependent on good shadows. Balance.

I thought the shadow in question was something that I hadn't planned for, and would liked to have known enough to have it in the mix so I could have made better choices. Learning point.

Though I thought I handled the shoot fairly well, there is plenty of room for me to have the ability to better direct a shoot. I knew these people. Had I not, I could easily see a huge problem. This is going to be about the ability to relate to folks and have fun with them. One thing I did was show my subject what I was doing on-camera. Tried to get him involved in what he was doing in front of the camera. It worked. He saw what he liked, what wasn't working for him, wanted to show momma, and eventually got him into it.

At a couple of points, I decided to give him the camera (horror of horrors!) and shoot me in the same lighting I had set up, with my best stupid "My God I Hope He Doesn't Fumble My Camera" look! He loved it and I made sure to put his shots of me in their final selections. For his benefit. Things then got better and now he is seeing what I am seeing. Seeing his own attempts at shooting me made him a lot easier and more cooperative when he was in front of the lens. That ended up being a good decision and is another learning point.

I did a location shoot yesterday for a friend (another thread). I started off with giving her a book of poses and told her to pick one - silence fora while. She struggled. So I took one (at random on the page she was one) posed her in a similar manner, showed her hubby. He loved it , she was so so, until I explained that She wasn't sub 20, blonde or dressed in expensive clothes with makeup and hair styled. Taking that into account, she looked pretty good. Now I was in the drivers seat and the shoot went very well (until we were back from location and the shoot continued inside, another story).

Great strategy, Graham! And obviously worked great! Got them involved and that is what has to happen for a successful shoot in my view. I can sure tell the difference in a photo that was taken when it was fun, and when it wasn't. If I can tell, then I have to believe that the one's I am shooting can. Mom and Son like the candids I shot of them while they were clowning best of all! Another learning point that you have brought home to me.

So, find what turns him on. At that age, a good picture, edgy, showing attitude may be just the sort of picture that he thinks (whether or not it's true, his immediate perception is the important thing) would make him more attractive to his chosen gender (all these words trying to be PC, and I've still probably cheesed people off). Once you've dangled the hook and he takes, then you have a little more control and you can also get the MOM shot.

I have several of these types of shots of him, Graham. Very cool advice. Young folks these day love the "tude shots. Crossed arms, maybe shades, no smile, head tilted at jaunty angle, the "gansta" rap look! I tried to use some dramatic lighting for him. Shot him in his grubby camo hoodie jacket. Hood up. Another learning point. How to light him in a hood. In ambient.

I am a whitewater kayaker. I have a lot of shots (snappers) that people have taken of me in action. They are hanging on a wall. In frames. It is the "I Love Me" wall! Learning Point: Never underestimate the power of "I Love Me". You get them involved, get them liking what they see, doing a few of what they want (as you mentioned), they will keep trying to make it better. You can't get rid of them! They are now thinking about how they want to look and what they want. The job becomes a breeze and (as you mentioned) you are now driving the bus!

My job is to make this happen for them. And be able to create any mood they need for their desires. So, I need to know the technical aspects for them. And I need to know these techniques well enough to make it happen as spontaneously as I can. Another thing I need to add as a learning point.

The "Mom" shot is the one I posted. She is the one who "commissioned" the shoot. She wants it for her family. She liked it. She is going to get it. She will never know jack about the nose shadow. Or anything else that makes it good or bad for that matter. She just likes it and that is enough. The rest is for us to discuss in this forum and what, if anything, to do about it. Still yet another learning point.

I brought this shot into this forum for this very reason. A very compelling conversation and folks here are ready and willing to chime in and make it happen. You, sir, Colin, Mark, Donald, Brian, well everyone who has done me the huge favor of responding. And don't think I don't appreciate this.

Guess I saw your ramble and raised you one, Graham! Thank you for asking, sir!

[GrahamH]

I love the idea of a 'Love Me Wall'.
In all my years, I have but one, a single one, one less than two (Monty Python anyone?) picture that I like of me, pro, enthusiast or not. That's one big reason why I like to be behind the camera.
Graham