Brand Loyalty

[MrB]

...if Mum and Dad have a good lens or two they are willing to leave you with for a long term . . . but what will they use?

And as for backwards compatibility:
The reality is there are very, very few people who buy a new DSLR and then seek out old lenses to manual focus...
WW

On the first point, Sophie has already told us that she borrows her parents Pentax kit, so presumably that is not a problem for the family, and why would it need to be a long-term loan?

On the second point, there are at this moment 45 of the M or A series Pentax lenses with active bidders on eBay.co.uk, so presumably the winners are probably not going to use them on a DSLR? However, directly relevant to Sophie, the main compatibility advantage would be with her parents - they would be able to use each others kit.

But, in my opinion, it is also useful to them that Pentax has such a complete backwards compatibility. As an example, if she or her parents wanted to start macro photography, they could look out for a Pentax-A 50mm macro lens. This manual-focus auto-aperture lens can be found for less than half the price of the modern auto-focus equivalent.

It is also worth knowing that although the Pentax AF system does not electrically focus the older manual lenses, it does still signal in the viewfinder when any manual lens is focused. And it is worth repeating that EVERY lens can take advantage of the in-body image stabilisation.

Philip

[vladimir]

I'm curious about the loyalty that people have for different brands of camera equipment that I've discovered on different websites around the place. I don't have any equipment of my own, I'm borrowing my parents' Pentax K-X and their assortment of lenses to take photos, so when I buy my own camera it would seem to make sense to buy a Pentax as I believe I would be able to use my parents' lenses with another Pentax camera?

Is it worthwhile exploring the option of going with another brand? How is Pentax viewed on these forums? Why are people so fiercely loyal to some brands- is it a matter of not being able to use equipment cross-brand?

Sophie, I have a good advise for you. What you need to do is convince your parents that they need a new Pentax. It's easy to do. Just give them this link, and let them see that Pentax K-5 is the best camera in the world! http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cam...Sensor-Ratings
And tell them how they need it, and want it, etc... Plant that thought in their heads!..
And from there it all becomes easy - they get K-5 and give you their K-x! Problem solved!

Talking from experience here... That's how my daughter became Pentax owner - her daddy upgraded to K-5.

[William W]

On the first point, please the read the quoted portion full context:

The first word in the para. is “Depends” and the comment I was making is that if Mum and Dad have a lens or two, what would they use when it (those lenses) are missing . . .

And I have no idea where Mum and Dad live, could be the street behind me in Sydney, but I suspect not, but it could be 10km away from Sophie . . .

The fact that she has borrowed her Parents’ Pentax gear on occasion and that has suited both parties, does not make fait accompli it will be thus forever – as I wrote “it depends”

***

On the second point, there are many (old) second hand lenses and other stuff sold on e-bay and many (I have no idea how many) would be bought by people who adapt them for use with digital cameras, other folk still use film – I for one: do both.

For example I use Mamyia 645 lenses on my Canon DSLR gear and I also use film in my 645 gear and also I am one of those people whom I mentioned that are willing to modify lenses with files and hacksaws and Dremel tools . . . so I would love backwards compatibility within a range of manufacturers because it would have saved me a fortune in both time and money – but the modifications are fun nonetheless.

But the fact still remains that however many of these items are sold and modified or not and or used in manual mode with DSLRs – many, many more people just buy a DSLR and a kit lens and stick with that or similar and some other folk, at the most have only a couple of other lenses - and that was the point I was making. The number of manual operation lenses sold on e-bay each year, does not come close to the number of entry lens DSLRs and kit lenses sold worldwide each year . . .

However, consideration as to the range of Pentax lenses available to use should be taken into account - I was not commenting on that: but only commenting on those lenses which had to be used manually in any manner and highlighting the fact of that manual operation.

Pentax 135 format is perhaps the king of backwards compatibility and some of their lenses are also very sweet: there is no argument there from me and as for in camera stabilization that has advantage.

In my comments I was making the discrete points I was making: nothing more and nothing less.


WW

[MrB]

Sophie...
... it all becomes easy - they get K-5 and give you their K-x! Problem solved!

And, even better, you could also borrow the K-5!

Philip

[MrB]

Bill, generally I cannot disagree with most of your last post.

But I am concerned that Sophie, who I suspect might be a newcomer to all this, might get the wrong impression from some of the things you have written previously and again here. Just the slightest mention of taking hacksaws and files to lenses might be a frightening distraction and completely put off a newcomer trying to assess different systems, and it is a total irrelevance in the case of Pentax K lenses.

Sophie, the plain fact is that ALL Pentax K-Bayonet lenses fit ALL Pentax DSLRs - very simply - very easily - just line up the red dots - twist and click. Some might need manual aperture setting, some might need manual focusing (aided by viewfinder info), but NO physical modifications required - nil - zero - NONE. As Bill so rightly added -

Pentax 135 format is perhaps the king of backwards compatibility and some of their lenses are also very sweet: there is no argument there from me and as for in camera stabilization that has advantage.
WW

Philip

[William W]

But I am concerned that Sophie, who I suspect might be a newcomer to all this, might get the wrong impression from some of the things you have written previously and again here. Just the slightest mention of taking hacksaws and files to lenses might be a frightening distraction and completely put off a newcomer trying to assess different systems, and it is a total irrelevance in the case of Pentax K lenses.

Understood. Noted and the point taken.

That was not my intention to confuse: and I also wrote all the above purely literally - and not with the intent of "slurring" Pentax.

Sophie should be aware that some old (Pentax) lenses require manual focussing / aperture control: and you have mentioned that in detail.

WW

[inkista]

Bill: a hacksaw? No, no, no. Leitax isn't just for Nikon shooters any more!

[William W]

Thanks Kathy . . .

[Colin Southern]

Wow! Has anyone seen any reviews yet? Do you know when it'll be available in the UK? How much is it selling for?

Yeah --- unfortunately the High ISO performance was forgotten about when the reviewers complained that it didn't have a dedicated MLU button - didn't maintain compatability wilth rolls of film, and had less than a giga-pixel sensor

[ShortAndSnappy]

Wow, thanks guys. XD Lots of info here for me.

Vladimir - they recently bought a second Pentax, the K-X. I thought, "Whoo! I can long-term borrow their other, older Pentax!". No such luck. They went to Laos last month with both cameras, so they had one each on their holiday... and Dad had his stolen. Now they only have the K-X, and as they're not going on holiday for another year and will only need the one camera until then... they're spending the insurance money on more lenses. D: -sob- Haha.

I don't think they'd be happy if I took a hacksaw to any of their lenses, Bill. :P (I know that wasn't what you were saying, though, dw.)

They live about 30km from me, and at the moment they aren't keen to let me take the camera or the lenses out of the house or backyard. Not a problem, as we have a huge backyard and I tend to go and stay with them for 3 or 4 days at a time when I can. So until I get my own camera and can prove that I can look after expensive equipment properly I'll only be using the gear under supervision. :P

Some of the lenses are very old - they used them with a film camera before I was born (I'm 22) I think. They have an auto-focus lens (that's a new one, I think it came with the camera? A kit lens, I think it's called.), a really long one that's manual focus (Old. I *think* it's 800mm? It's all so confusing. x.o) and a mirror lens. (Old and really really really heavy. XD) A couple of others, but I'm not sure what specs they are. I love the manual focus lenses - it feels more... photographer-y to me. XD Getting everything perfectly in focus is such a buzz when you do it by hand, I reckon. I'm not sure what aperture control is? I mean, well, I could guess that it means that you have to tell the camera what aperture to shoot at? XD

I'm a student, so $$$ will be an issue for me when buying gear. If older gear is still compatible with new Pentax cameras, and I prefer the manual focus anyway.. that seems like a decent option? Are there any other brands that have the same backwards-compatibility? (Minus the hacksaw. Definitely not up for that yet. Possibly ever. Too scary!)

And, yes, I am a COMPLETE newb. I've been taking photos for five months and because I only get to use Mum and Dad's camera occasionally I've had... 12 sessions. Lol. (I keep all the photos I'm happy with separated in folders by date so that I know when I took them and can see improvement. Hopefully. XD)

[Goldcoastgolfer]

I bought my current camera purely because it was compatible with the lens that I had from my original film SLR so I certainly understand the rationale and it makes sense if you're trying to save $$. Just as long as you're happy with the lenses that your parents have.

I'm only new myself but the guys around here are pretty helpful and there's a ton of information here to help you learn so you might as well learn everything first and decide on what you need later. You may find as your knowledge increases that the lenses that your parents have aren't the ones you really want in which case considering alternate options might make sense.

In any case, there's always something else that you want with photography I think. I didn't think any hobby would become more expensive than golf or drinking wine.... but I think photography just might take the cake!

[William W]

Detailed information apropos the situation is always more valuable to obtaining better and specific advice.

I'm a student, so $$$ will be an issue for me when buying gear. If older gear is still compatible with new Pentax cameras, and I prefer the manual focus anyway.. that seems like a decent option? Are there any other brands that have the same backwards-compatibility?

Addressing these facts, and it seems the fact that there is a reasonable cache of lenses, then consider buying a modest Pentax DSLR body (and perhaps the automatic kit zoom lens with it).
That would allow you a camera and an automatic lens on which to learn and know you have it all the time to use and you would have access to other lenses from Mum and Dad.
I expect that an odd lens here which they do not use often and on loan for a few weeks will be an entirely different kettle of kippers to borrowing their main working lens(es) - that's why I suggest buying a modest kit lens with a body.
Yes, it does seem like a decent option.
No, I believe as I wrote (for your considerations) Pentax is the king of backwards compatibility and range of (good) old lenses: save for Leica and Hasselblad.
I am not so sure that manual focus is what you will continue to prefer. I make that comment with respect to the fact there has been not much experience to solidify such a position.

In summary:
It occurs to me that you are giving due consideration to lots of input posted here (and perhaps elsewhere) and that $$$ are in the very forefront of your mind: in regard to this point, I suggest not spending too much on the camera, you can do a lot of learning with a good quality entry level DSLR and consider the value of having one general kit lens of your own. This option leverages your position such that you have a good tool to use, the option to borrow lenses; but also you have not committed a large $$$, so if (after learning more from hands on experience) you choose to develop a kit from another manufacturer you are not locked in to Pentax.

WW

[jimd]

Sophie

I got back into photography after a 25+ year break. Through the 70's and early 80's photography became an ever increasing part of my job. I still have all of my gear - mostly Pentax.

I decided to get a new camera in time for my son's wedding back in June and went into it with a clear open mind. After trying a few out and reading a couple of reviews: some of which were a bit of a joke due to the bias of the reviewer/magazine, I decided on a Pentax K5 and a couple of (non kit) lenses.

My decision wasn't based upon my previous Pentan experience. Nikon was tops at that time, but I couldn't afford it, with Canon way, way, behind. But the fact that I can use my old lenses, some of which cost a fortune at the time, is a bonus.

As far as using them in manual mode is concerned, if you are serious about photography you'll need to know about the relationships between ISO, F-stops and shutter speed and there is no better way to learn.

The big two may have more gear but realistically how much are you ever going to need and there are a lot of third party lenses, flashguns, etc that are just as good.

Go with what you're comfotable with, be it Pentax, Olympus, Sony, Nikon or whatever. Look at all advice objectively and if it's relevant to your situation. Not the 'I'd never be seen in a Ford' advice

[MrB]

Good advice above from Bill, Sophie.

If $$ matter a lot, it might be worth looking for a used DSLR. I've just had a quick look for Pentax on http://www.ebay.com.au/ and it seems that there is a healthy second-user market for camera kit in Australia. However, for your peace of mind if you choose this route, it would be advisable to find a local photographic shop that stocks used equipment - a reputable retailer who would give you a decent warranty on second-user kit, and who would also accept credit card payment (for your extra protection).

For learning about photography, I doubt that you would find anything better on the Web than here at CiC. Study the tutorials and the helpful contributions and comments in the forums, and there are lots of experienced practitioners here who are keen to answer our questions.

All the best.

Philip

[thequacksoflife]

I suspect it's a macho thing for people to try and justify their purchase.

Most people stick with a brand not so much for the camera as the number of lenses that they have acquired. Swapping is a costly basis.

As to Pentax? no problem with it at all. They have a very good set of enthusiast lenses. The only time I'd caution against is if you were seriously into wildlife photography. They don't to the range of telephotos that Nikon and Canon do.

But for most of us if you can't take a good picture with a pentax/sony/canon/nikon dSLR then it's more likely to be the photographer that is to blame

[beechdale basher]

Hi Sophie,

As everyone else has said there are many cameras out there that have features and functions that most people will never use. Some of us will not even understand what these functions are supposed to do.

I purchased my first DSLR in 2011. I read lots of reviews, many of which, I didn't understand but eventually I settled on a camera which I thought that I could "grow into".

It doesn't matter what brand and model that I purchased even though I do like my purchase and because I purchased 2 lenses with that camera and have since purchased a third party zoom I am likely to stay with "my brand".

If you have a good eye and are able to master some of the pp software that is available you will be able to produce images that you are very happy with. Being happy with the outcome of your work/ hobby is what we are all striving to achieve.

Make a list of a number of cameras within your price range- go into store to handle them- decide which one you think feels the best or that you like the look of and make the purchase. Then go out and take the photographs.

Over the coming years YOU will decide if you have made the correct choice. If you have then keep going with manufacture of your choice if not then sell on your equipment and change to something else. After all at your age you will be buying equipment for many many years.

Good luck

[krispix]

Hi Sophie,

I think that (for obvious reasons) manufacturers like to foster brand loyalty - way past the point of "satisfied customer" into the realm of "emotional attachment" (how many times have you seen bumper stickers along the likes of "I'd rather push my Ford than drive your Holden" when in reality they're both just cars with similar specs that drive / handle in an identical manner. Same goes for cameras; at the end of the day, be it a Canon or a Nikon, or a Pentax ... they're pretty much just a little box at the end of a lens that lets the light in for "X" amount of time - and for 99% of situations, any of them will do the job just fine.

Hi Colin,

I'm not convinced that's a fair analogy. If you buy a Holden (what the hell is that!) after owning a Ford, it's going to work with that can of petrol in the garage, the furry dice will hang just fine of the rearview mirror and your family will still fit.

With a camera, once you've invested in all that expensive kit (mostly glass) that won't work with anything else, you're stuck with it. I became wedded to Nikon in 1965 when I acquired an S2. I was so impressed with the build quality that a Nikon F was the obvious choice when I wanted an SLR a few years later. Since then my investment in lenses and accessories has demanded I stick with the brand, although had it not been for that I would have moved over to Canon with my last purchase. So, it's not just blind loyalty - there's a huge financial incentive to stay with one brand.

[Goldcoastgolfer]

If $$ matter a lot, it might be worth looking for a used DSLR. I've just had a quick look for Pentax on http://www.ebay.com.au/ and it seems that there is a healthy second-user market for camera kit in Australia.

Philip's got a point there with Ebay and getting a cheap camera. You tend to have to pay for things through Paypal which offers a measure of protection. Reading through the reputation comments can give you a level of comfort about the person your buying from. And you can ask questions of the buyer on the equipment before bidding.

I'm not sure about what to look out for on camera bodies - dust and the mirror function working well is my guess. On lenses I once bought one with mould in it many years ago which was unrepairable so along with dust, that's the thing to keep an eye out for if you go down the ebay route.

[Shadowman]

Has anyone had problems with the software needed to transfer your images to your computer? Almost any program can transfer jpegs, but what about your RAW images and the software needed to convert these files into digital darkrooms?

[Colin Southern]

Has anyone had problems with the software needed to transfer your images to your computer? Almost any program can transfer jpegs, but what about your RAW images and the software needed to convert these files into digital darkrooms?

I just throw my card into a card reader and Adobe Bridge takes care of moving the file - converting to DNG - adding metadata, and renaming them.