Brand Loyalty

[ShortAndSnappy]

I'm curious about the loyalty that people have for different brands of camera equipment that I've discovered on different websites around the place. I don't have any equipment of my own, I'm borrowing my parents' Pentax K-X and their assortment of lenses to take photos, so when I buy my own camera it would seem to make sense to buy a Pentax as I believe I would be able to use my parents' lenses with another Pentax camera?

Is it worthwhile exploring the option of going with another brand? How is Pentax viewed on these forums? Why are people so fiercely loyal to some brands- is it a matter of not being able to use equipment cross-brand?

[Black Pearl]

Part of it is just a weird kind of brand loyalty that as consumers in general we tend to have towards a badge. To be fair once you've bought one thing from a particular company and liked it you are likely to keep buying from them expecting the same high standards, design ethic, functionality.....coolness.

Secondly it comes down to investment. Personally I have a bag full of brand specific accessories so even if another brand came along with the most astounding camera body the cost of changing my system would be extraordinary.

Lastly, and this is where it gets a little more personal, I like the design of Nikon Pro SLR's. They feel right in my hand and I think (others will have their own opinions) the control layout is the best of all the brands I've used. To be fair to me I can comment on this from a stronger position than most as I have been selling cameras for 23 years so I use dozens of systems every day - doesn't make me right but I have used them all on countless occasions.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Sophie,

I think that (for obvious reasons) manufacturers like to foster brand loyalty - way past the point of "satisfied customer" into the realm of "emotional attachment" (how many times have you seen bumper stickers along the likes of "I'd rather push my Ford than drive your Holden" when in reality they're both just cars with similar specs that drive / handle in an identical manner. Same goes for cameras; at the end of the day, be it a Canon or a Nikon, or a Pentax ... they're pretty much just a little box at the end of a lens that lets the light in for "X" amount of time - and for 99% of situations, any of them will do the job just fine.

Also, because all of these manufacturers are in competition, you tend to see near identical features at a given price point (ie all entry level cameras will have similar features - all high-end cameras will have similar features). The funny thing is that the few things that are slightly different will be the things that they trumpet about in the advertising, even though the vast majority of folks won't see a day-to-day difference because of these specs (the new "Acme 9000" has ISO 3,276,800 so you can take natural light photos of the inside of a cow - that's in a cave - at night - during a lunar elipse -- when most of us just stick to ISO 100 to 1600).

The point Robin makes regarding investment very much applies to me; I'm a Canon shooter with many thousands of dollars worth of Canon glass (and other accessories) - I'm quite sure that I'd be just as happy shooting Nikon - and that my images wouldn't look any better or worse because of it ... but it's a new Canon (not a Nikon) that I have on order because all of my lenses aren't going to fit on a Nikon - so for me (and many others) changing just doesn't make any sense.

[ShortAndSnappy]

Thanks Colin and Robin, that makes a lot of sense. :-) I'm trying to decide whether I should get a Pentax because my parents have Pentax gear, and I can borrow that... but maybe I should go into the store like Robin suggests and see what just *feels* right. XD Hopefully I'm not going to be borrowing Mum and Dad's gear for the rest of my life, after all. :-P

[Colin Southern]

Thanks Colin and Robin, that makes a lot of sense. :-) I'm trying to decide whether I should get a Pentax because my parents have Pentax gear, and I can borrow that... but maybe I should go into the store like Robin suggests and see what just *feels* right. XD Hopefully I'm not going to be borrowing Mum and Dad's gear for the rest of my life, after all. :-P

Nah - just buy a Canon - they're HEAPS better!

Seriously, Robin and I disagree on the "which feels better" bit; my take on it is it's a bit like jumping in a rental car ... it feels a bit weird on the first day (because you have to think about where everything is), but after a couple of days it's 2nd nature. I've used Nikons (briefly) from time to time and they feel TOTALLY weird in my hands - but I'm sure that if I used one for a few days - and figured out "the Nikon way of doing things" - then it would probably feel as comfortable as my Canon so IMO, it's just whatever you get used to.

In terms of sticking with Pentax so that you can borrow lenses etc - hmmm - your parents might like to have some input into that! Personally, I'd probably ask myself the question of just where you see your photography taking you - if you're planning on getting REALLY serious about it then you might want to have a think about whether the likes of Pentax has the lenses & other accessories available for what you might need (Canon and Nikon have a bigger selection) -- and you might also like to factor into the equasion how you might get on asking for help; because not many folks use systems like Pentax / Sigma etc you might find it harder to get camera-specific answers. On the other hand, if it's just general shooting then it's probably not going to make a big difference (although at that point one might ask if theres any compelling reason NOT to buy a mainstream Canon/Nikon camera?)

No right or wrong answers ... just more questions. You will however be confused on a much higher level about far more important things!

On a final note, have you seen what happened to Hitler when he ordered a Nikon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRzcCYSg_vA (make sure you have sound)

[Shadowman]

I'm curious about the loyalty that people have for different brands of camera equipment that I've discovered on different websites around the place. I don't have any equipment of my own, I'm borrowing my parents' Pentax K-X and their assortment of lenses to take photos, so when I buy my own camera it would seem to make sense to buy a Pentax as I believe I would be able to use my parents' lenses with another Pentax camera?

Is it worthwhile exploring the option of going with another brand? How is Pentax viewed on these forums? Why are people so fiercely loyal to some brands- is it a matter of not being able to use equipment cross-brand?

It does pay to do the research. My very first digital camera, a point and shoot, was a Pentax 3.2mp given to me as a gift. It was a very good camera, I still have it and would probably continue to use it but it used AA batteries and even with the use of rechargeables become too much of a hassle.

When I decided to purchase my first DSLR about three years ago, I considered the Pentax but it had few options for lenses so was put fourth or fifth on my list. I was familiar with Canon, Sony, Olympus, and Nikon but decided against the Canon, even though it was considered to be the premiere brand, because of their many white lenses and didn't like the off setting colors. Olympus had very few options for lenses also, so it was down to Sony or Nikon, both were considered very good cameras and I finally opted for the Nikon. Since this purchase I have also purchased an Olympus pen camera and it was chosen for the quality of technology for that style of camera. Nikon and a few others have recently come out with similar cameras but I am glad that I chose the Olympus rather than wait for Nikon to release theirs, mainly because Olympus had already established themselves in the micro 4/3rds technology arena.

[ShortAndSnappy]

Hahaha, just buy a Canon, hey? XD

I'm not in a position yet where I can buy anything, so I'll be borrowing Mum and Dad's equipment for a while yet. They suggested getting a Pentax so we can swap lenses so I'm sure they're ok with it, lol.

Those are all really good points about range of gear and that kind of thing, and I really would like to get serious about this stuff. I've been taking photos for 5 months and the satisfaction I feel when something comes out beautifully is like nothing else I've ever felt. I'll definitely be asking for help heaps so mainstream would be good. :-)

The only point against Canon or Nikon or whatever would be price, maybe? I get the idea that those systems are very pricey. (Buying the brand as well as the equipment, etc etc.) Having said that, if I'm going to be serious about this I can justify paying a bit extra for the comfort of being able to ask for help and knowing that I'll be able to get the accessories I need.

I do really like the idea of picking out a camera based on how it 'feels', but that's probably just my tendency to anthropomorphise all of my high-end purchases. XD

That video is hilarious. XDDDD

Thanks Shadowman. I'm no where near looking and comparing individual specs on cameras, but I expect I'll do a lot of research too. XD Just curious about brands atm. The idea of making a brand choice that I'll probably have to stick with.... well, forever? unless I want to replace all the lenses and stuff... it's very daunting! XD

[Shadowman]

It does pay to do the research. My very first digital camera, a point and shoot, was a Pentax 3.2mp given to me as a gift. It was a very good camera, I still have it and would probably continue to use it but it used AA batteries and even with the use of rechargeables become too much of a hassle.

When I decided to purchase my first DSLR about three years ago, I considered the Pentax but it had few options for lenses so was put fourth or fifth on my list. I was familiar with Canon, Sony, Olympus, and Nikon but decided against the Canon, even though it was considered to be the premiere brand, because of their many white lenses and didn't like the off setting colors. Olympus had very few options for lenses also, so it was down to Sony or Nikon, both were considered very good cameras and I finally opted for the Nikon. Since this purchase I have also purchased an Olympus pen camera and it was chosen for the quality of technology for that style of camera. Nikon and a few others have recently come out with similar cameras but I am glad that I chose the Olympus rather than wait for Nikon to release theirs, mainly because Olympus had already established themselves in the micro 4/3rds technology arena.

I recently commented on an experience I had while attending an art fair. There was a local film photography instructor monitoring his groups booth and he was taking a survey of what camera models each attendee had, especially if it was hidden by our camera bags. When I approached his both he correctly guessed that I had a Nikon in my Promaster bag. After jotting down my camera model, he made the comment that people seemed to think that there were only three manufacturers of cameras in the world, Nikon, Sony, and Canon. He was totally surprised when I told him I also had an Olympus, although a 4/3rds and not DSLR in my bag. So perhaps the big three are the only ones who successfully market their gear. The only place I have spotted ads from other manufacturers are in photography magazines, you rarely if at all see an from Olympus or Pentax on television. Perhaps this is why the big three are more dominate and brand loyalty runs wildly.

[Mark von Kanel]

Hi Sophie,

I was asking the very same question this time last year and the replies given by Robin and Colin were equally valid then. i was looking at the Nikon D7000, Canon 7D and panasonic GH2 All reviews were good, but what it came down to was how it felt in my hand in the shop and how serious i was going to get bitten by the bug.

As it was the bug turned out to be a lion a took a huge chunk out of my bum and subsequently another huge chunk out of my wallet The lack of accessories for the bridge camera put me off (but i am a man after all) so it was off to the shop to try the camera's and the Nikon just felt right in my hand so that was it my fait sealed my wallet emptied..........

But a fascinating hobby filled with all sorts of challenges and rewards, you only live once to treat yourself to what feels good.

By the way a Canon is only any good for shooting big iron balls at Nikon owners

Im going to duck while Colin reloads......

Robin are you going to do me a good deal on a new D800?

[Electron]

As to your original question about brand loyalty, have a read of this blog:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com...4_archive.html

I am sure you will find it very interesting.
Cheers.

[Kabizm]

Interesting read Electron. Definitely food for thought.

[Colin Southern]

They suggested getting a Pentax so we can swap lenses so I'm sure they're ok with it, lol.

Ah -- now the true story emerges ...

... it's not so much parents "happy with you borrowing lenses" as it is "parents wanting to SWAP lenses" ... no wonder they're happy about it ... they're probably counting on you buying the whole range!

[Colin Southern]

By the way a Canon is only any good for shooting big iron balls at Nikon owners

No no - that's a Cannon!

[ShortAndSnappy]

Ah -- now the true story emerges ...

... it's not so much parents "happy with you borrowing lenses" as it is "parents wanting to SWAP lenses" ... no wonder they're happy about it ... they're probably counting on you buying the whole range!

Hahahahahahahaha I hadn't thought of that! XD

Electron - that was really interesting, thanks!

[MrB]

As to your original question about brand loyalty, have a read of this blog:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com...4_archive.html

I am sure you will find it very interesting.
Cheers.

This is an excellent article - it should be recommended reading for all newcomers to photography.

Sophie,

In reading opinions, have in mind the reality of the market - Nikon and Canon are the biggest players by far. Therefore, wherever you post your question, the majority of respondents are likely to be using Nikon or Canon equipment. Therefore, the majority of comments are likely to give overt or covert recommendations to you to buy into the Nikon or Canon brands. Therefore the wealth and continued dominance of the Big Two is assured.

There is nothing wrong with ANY of the DSLR brands - they will each have strengths and weaknesses. However, one feature relevant to you is compatibility, so here is my covert recommendation, which I now make overt:-

Pentax DSLRs will accept ANY K-mount lens ever made by Pentax or other manufacturers, so there are hundreds to choose from on the new or second-user markets. Older lenses, M-series, can be used in manual mode; A-series lenses are able utilise auto aperture; more recent lenses also benefit from auto-focus. On all recent and current Pentax DSLRs, EVERY K-mount lens of every series benefits from Image Stabilisation, because this feature is in the camera body, not the lens.

Therefore, if you get a Pentax DSLR, you and your parents will always be able to use each others lenses (assuming you have permission), plus any others that you buy second-hand or new.

(You might guess which brand I am using.)

Philip

[Black Pearl]

Robin are you going to do me a good deal on a new D800?

Only after I've worn it smooth and possible only if you prise it from my cold, dead hands..

The Nikon Hitler thing is good- the iPhone 4s is awesome too.

[William W]

I'm curious about the loyalty that people have for different brands of camera equipment that I've discovered on different websites around the place.

It depends as to the why.

Mostly I think it is rationalization, certification and validation of the choice one has made: not many people will tell you the new car they just bought was the WRONG choice.

I don’t have much brand loyalty other than the loyalty to what I have and I have . . . (counting) . . . five brands altogether. . . but you are discussing DSLR's I expect.

Cameras and lenses are tools for me except a few I have which are items of joy or idolism . . . like my Rokkor 58mm F/1.2 lens.

What I mean is I made a conscious choice to buy Canon DSLR’s and that meant changing from another brand of film 135 format cameras . . . and at considerable expense.

I don't have any equipment of my own, I'm borrowing my parents' Pentax K-X and their assortment of lenses to take photos, so when I buy my own camera it would seem to make sense to buy a Pentax as I believe I would be able to use my parents' lenses with another Pentax camera?

Depends – If you want an array of lenses for digital, then Canon has more from which to select – and more specialized. OTOH, if Mum and Dad have a good lens or two they are willing to leave you with for a long term . . . but what will they use?

I have a Daughter who will most likely by the time she arrives at my age have shot more than I have ever dreamed of shooting– she also uses a Canon DSLR, but shoots Nikon Film: why? Because Nikon Film gear is free for her to use at school.

Is it worthwhile exploring the option of going with another brand?

Yes.

How is Pentax viewed on these forums?

My opinion - The K 1000 was a great camera: their 6x7 gear is excellent especially the fisheye lens (another item of lust for me - sorry that I sold it) . . . in the digital market, Pentax is a niche player.

Canon and Nikon are the market holders – there are strengths and weaknesses in being part of a niche market or the market of the heavyweights – there are more strengths for me, by being with one of the market heavyweights.

Why are people so fiercely loyal to some brands- is it a matter of not being able to use equipment cross-brand?

No, In the DSLR market it is ego, generally, except if we are seriously discussing Hasselblad: the tools are very similar for most of the product range at the entry and prosumer level.

As Colin wrote, not many Photographers need to take pictures of a cow’s guts, inside a dark cavern at midnight during a lunar eclipse – but many like to say they have a camera capable of ISO 512,000 and an F/0.9 lens, capable of it.

And as for backwards compatibility:

The reality is there are very, very few people who buy a new DSLR and then seek out old lenses to manual focus and stop down metering. . . . and or get out the hacksaw and files to adapt to fit their new DSLR.


Sure my Rokkor 58/1.2 is a wonderful lens, but 99% of players will never use it, but rather choose to use a Canon or Nikon Standard Zoom lens with Auto Focus and an Automatic Aperture Diaphragm.


WW

[rpcrowe]

I now shoot with Canon gear but, that was not always the case. I dropped the Canon flag when their FD and FX film cameras consistently went down while shooting in the harsh conditions of Vietnam. My shipmate's Leicas and Nikons survived admirably. So I made the logical switch, I went to Pentax (who says I am always logical). I shot with the Pentax system for quite a few years until I fell into a good deal on a Canon A-1. I then shot with the A-1 and a backup AE-1P for many years. I used these cameras for wedding work - but only for the reception. All formal shots were always done with medium format gear (and that is where I had the majority of my investment). But, I was so happpy with the A-1 and AE-1P for my reception coverage that I skipped the entire generation of Canon Film EOS auto-focus cameras.

When I finally went digital, it was not so much because I had film lenses that I could use on the Canon DSLR cameras (Canon pretty well took care of that when they intentionally made the EOS cameras incompatible with Canon manual focus lenses) It was because, at that time - I considered the 10D as the best mid-priced camera available. Nikon has certainly caught up and could have passed Canon in certain areas. But once, I was heavily invested in Canon, I did not want to switch to Nikon.

I am retired and 72 years old. I have not used my DSLR gear for any professional work except dog portraiture (which is as much a hobby as a paying gig). The 1.6x crop format is plenty for my needs.

However, if I were shooting professionally again, I would definitely go to professional route and use the 1D Series Canon DSLR cameras...

Anyway, I am quite happy with my Canon gear...

[Colin Southern]

the iPhone 4s is awesome too.

Got mine last week - Siri is awesome - people are blown away by the technology (I should open an iPhone store!).

[Donald]

... the new "Acme 9000" has ISO 3,276,800 so you can take natural light photos of the inside of a cow - that's in a cave - at night - during a lunar elipse --

Wow! Has anyone seen any reviews yet? Do you know when it'll be available in the UK? How much is it selling for?